Interesting article when men want babies and women don't

dutchgirl76

I just read this interesting article about the growing trend that not all women want babies, but some men do. I'm thankful my husband and I were on the same no baby page from the beginning, but it's so hard to know at any age where you'll stand on the child issue is 1,5 or 10 years as things change both ways (want and don't want.) I guess it's easy for men to say they want babies too since most of them don't have to stay home, work around a work schedule and physically have the child. http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/03/when-men-want-kids-and-women-arent-so-sure.html

short+sassy

That was an interesting article.  I was very surprised to see men are more likely to want children than women. 

And it is also so, so sad when one person in a relationship wants children and the other one doesn't.

I'm all about compromise and feel like most relationship mountains can be overcome if both people are willing listen to each other and come to a solution that works best for everyone.  But there is no compromise in child/no child and you hate to see good people break up simply because they are on opposite sides of that fence.

chrisnjay05212010

Very interesting article and we actually went through this back in December.  We had an argument about something totally unrelated and it snowballed to the point of him bringing up kids out of nowhere.  We have been together almost 15 years (married 5).  Kids were always in the maybe someday bucket.  But as our marriage and life started to evolve my feelings turned towards the i dont want them side. I was never that girl that day dreamed of kids though.  I made this known to him multiple times over the years and he seemed to be fine, every time i brought it up he was on my side.  So to have him throw this in my face out of nowhere was a total shock! 

Long story short, we have talked about it and while i think if i switched sides, he would be ok with it, But he says he is happy as long as I am and that its not something he would leave over. 

elisea92

I've been seeing a lot of articles like this lately. It doesn't help that I'm one of those women on the fence with a man who's fully in the 'wanting babies' side. 

I think the problem is, at least in my relationship, is that my husband, as wonderful as he is, has no real concept of how much work and responsibility a child is. When I ask him why he wants a baby, he says "Because I want to have a baby with you." To me, this isn't an acceptable answer. He'll be in for a rude awakening (literally) at 3am with a crying baby. My concept of children is more realistic and thus, a little less appealing. 

The biggest thing that doesn't appeal to me is not the baby - it's my husband. Sad? Maybe. But it's true. 

chrisnjay05212010

elisea92 said:

I've been seeing a lot of articles like this lately. It doesn't help that I'm one of those women on the fence with a man who's fully in the 'wanting babies' side. 

I think the problem is, at least in my relationship, is that my husband, as wonderful as he is, has no real concept of how much work and responsibility a child is. When I ask him why he wants a baby, he says "Because I want to have a baby with you." To me, this isn't an acceptable answer. He'll be in for a rude awakening (literally) at 3am with a crying baby. My concept of children is more realistic and thus, a little less appealing. 

The biggest thing that doesn't appeal to me is not the baby - it's my husband. Sad? Maybe. But it's true. 

its not sad at all!!! Its called being honest with yourself and your relationship! My DH is not my biggest reason but it is one of them!!  I just cant see him adjusting and handling a child. Also he is a police officer with long, weird and/or constantly changing hours, which leaves about 90% of the child care to me and when i'm the one that doesn't want a baby in the first place, its just not happening.

short+sassy

elisea92 said:

I've been seeing a lot of articles like this lately. It doesn't help that I'm one of those women on the fence with a man who's fully in the 'wanting babies' side. 

I think the problem is, at least in my relationship, is that my husband, as wonderful as he is, has no real concept of how much work and responsibility a child is. When I ask him why he wants a baby, he says "Because I want to have a baby with you." To me, this isn't an acceptable answer. He'll be in for a rude awakening (literally) at 3am with a crying baby. My concept of children is more realistic and thus, a little less appealing. 

The biggest thing that doesn't appeal to me is not the baby - it's my husband. Sad? Maybe. But it's true.

Do you all have any friends with a baby...even better, a toddler...who might enjoy a weekend to themselves?  Offer to babysit for the weekend .  Bonus points if the toddler is in their "why" phase.

dutchgirl76

Elsie, it's not sad at all. Like Chrisnjay that's a huge part of my reason too. My husband's in civil service with a rotating schedule. I'm not signing up to be a single mom two guaranteed nights a week including rotating weekends. I don't think my husband would make a good dad either, he just wouldn't be that involved, you have to think about those things before committing. 

Thankfully my husband's never wanted children but his family wants grandkids/nieces nephews. People never think about the mom and what we'd have to give up. When I try to explain that big reason to people it's just crickets. I'm more into the babysitting when the child's out of diapers and able to communicate his or her needs, plus you can return them at the end of the day

elisea92

Short+Sassy - alas, none of our friends have children! Otherwise I would TOTALLY do that. 

My husband also has odd hours - 2pm to 2am (if he works late) and he LOVES working those horrible hours. He can never understand why I want him to change to regular times. "There's no traffic on this shift, it's perfect!" So frustrating. 

Sometimes I think he'd be a good dad, other times not so much. It usually is related to things he's doing, like being ultra immature or getting frustrated with the dogs. 

I'm so glad there are other ladies that feel the same way.

dutchgirl76

Elisea, the dog thing really hits home. We were at a holiday party for my husband in December and a new mom mentioned that they "had to get a dog" to " teach her husband responsibility and that not everything is a huge deal" prior to having children. I 200% understand pets and kids are really different, but, I get where she's coming from. My husband would need the dog step (we only have cats) because he has trouble keeping to deadlines and responsibilities outside of work. He'd also need to really learn the dog having an accident, the dog barking in the middle of the night isn't a reason to lose your patience before we could have a kid. Unfortunately he's too old (over 35) for us to have time to take the dog and then kid step.

I'm also glad you ladies feel this way. I feel horrible thinking these thoughts about my husband and really hope he'd just become a good dad if he had too, but it's not guaranteed.

I feel bad for ladies who change their mind as they get older too. Sure it's easy at 23-25 to say "I want kids...someday" when you're not settled into a career, routine, home etc. Once you're "ready" age and career/settled wise you might be in a totally different place. Cut the woman some slack if she says "hey, I worked really hard to get this career thing going and I like my lifestyle without kids, maybe a child isn't for me after all"

chrisnjay05212010

There are many times i have said to my husband, you cant even manage to take care of the dog, imagine a kid!

For example- last weekend, my husband was working on a project with my brother (installing some attic steps). I was out of the house all afternoon.  I called him late in the afternoon to say when you are done meet us at Outback, we are gonna go out to dinner with you guys and my parents.  Fabulous! On the way home from dinner (it is now after 9pm) he goes oh crap, i forgot to feed the dog!  Mind you HE WAS HOME ALL DAY until like 530!  How do you forget to feed the dog?

short+sassy

Poor doggie!  And he's a big guy.  He was probably looking at your DH all sad for awhile.

My cat will persistently meow at us if her bowl is empty...more like half empty, lol.  She is not as loud as a hungry baby, but equally irritating.

Now I'm wondering if there actually is a correlation between people are neglectful of their pets...not saying your DH is usually neglectful, @chrisnjay05212010...and if they are not as likely to be good parents and/or not as likely to be ready to be parents.

I mean, it seems like an obvious correlation, but that doesn't mean it actually is.  I'm not arguing either way.  Just pondering.

chrisnjay05212010

@short+sassy I wonder too!  Someone should set up a study! LOL

dutchgirl76

I would love to see that study too. Again for those who've had pets and kids, I get there's a difference, but if you can't remember to feed the pet, take it for walks and keep up with the vet, you'll never be able to handle a child. We get there's a big difference, but the dog *should* be easier to handle.

On a side note, I must really not want a child as we debate getting a dog too. We really want a dog, but we worry about scheduling. Some weekends when my husband works I go to my dad's, I *could* take the dog with me, but my dad doesn't have any pets, so he's not equipped. We have trouble finding a cat sitter when we go on vacation and they don't need nearly as much attention. I always try to explain to people, if we can't even make a schedule with a dog work, a child would never work.

elisea92

Chrisnjay, oh my goodness. My husband does the same kind of crap. I'll be at work all day, he works nights, and the boys are in their kennel while I'm gone. I won't get home until 8. He can't even be bothered to set an alarm for 5:00 to get up and feed them/let them out to pee. If that's too inconvenient then oh the calamatiy that is a child!

I've told him that if I wanted to go to work and then go home and do ALL of the household chores and child rearing, I'd have just been a single mom and gotten a sperm donor. At least then I'd only have the small children to pick up after. He insists he'll be helpful when we have kids, and I say "Prove it." but that just makes him irritated that he has to 'prove' anything to me. Sigh.

I think it has to do with how he was raised. It's a long story, but his parents are awful role models and his Grandma (who helped a lot with raising him and is a lovely -lovely- woman) spoiled the crap out of him, and still does. I think the combination of not knowing what proper parenting should be and not having anyone (until me) that truly holds him accountable and responsible is hurting him, and in turn, our future. I suppose my biggest issue is working this out without offending him and making him angry. He gets defensive when criticized, which most people do, so I must brain ninja my way into making him the ideal father before being a father.

Does that make sense?

short+sassy

@elisea92, totally makes sense.  And I'm loving the phrase "brain ninja", lol.

chrisnjay05212010

LOL @elisea92 it totally makes sense!

dutchgirl76

I like the brain ninja. It's like they say "it has to be the man's idea", I think that would be exhausting to have a child and have to ask your husband to do something for the kid 14 times before you either give up and just do it yourself (on top of everything else!) or wait for him to think of it on his own. My husband is notorious for ignoring me, then "forgetting" we ever had that conversation or getting mad for nagging. If someone at work or a friend of his does the same thing I'm asking it suddenly becomes his brilliant, brand new idea, *sigh* a husband is plenty of work. lol.

NoneForUs

It is so easy for a man to say he wants children because he will get off easy; he won't have to be pregnant or give birth. He likely won't be the one staying home with the child if one partner needs to be the stay at home parent. He will also do precious little compared to the woman in his life when it comes to child rearing. I believe this based on my upbringing and listening to complaints from mothers, as well as what I read about parenting. 

A friend's husband pushed for a baby and she wasn't sure that she wanted one. She had a little boy and now she is stuck doing all the work because the baby "overwhelms" her husband. My friend has more patience than I do; I would be screaming at my husband if he begged me to have a child and then didn't want to help. 

My husband does the "forgetting" and then calling me a nag too. Thankfully, those episodes have decreased because he sees how much that kind of nonsense pisses me off. 

chrisnjay05212010

@NoneForUs i think you are totally right!  When my DH and i were talking about it.  I tried to explain to him that the responsibility falls 90% on me! With his job, job location and schedule, he would never be around to do what is necessary.  Once i started to lay out what was involved, i think it dawned on him alittle bit.  I explain that if i was the one that wanted a child then it would be fine but i don't want that lifestyle

elisea92

dutchgirl76 said:

I like the brain ninja. It's like they say "it has to be the man's idea", I think that would be exhausting to have a child and have to ask your husband to do something for the kid 14 times before you either give up and just do it yourself (on top of everything else!) or wait for him to think of it on his own. My husband is notorious for ignoring me, then "forgetting" we ever had that conversation or getting mad for nagging. If someone at work or a friend of his does the same thing I'm asking it suddenly becomes his brilliant, brand new idea, *sigh* a husband is plenty of work. lol.

I already deal with this regarding the dishes. They're specifically HIS CHORE and he has literally put it off to the point of there being mold in the sink and I get disgusted and do it myself. It makes me so angry, and I can definitely see how he'd do similar, awful things with a kid.

He will also mutter things about me nagging. My response is either, if he did it the first time, I wouldn't ask so frequently. Or, he always complains when I -don't- tell me what's bothering me, so I either don't say anything or I'm a nag. That usually shuts him up.

@NoneForUs I agree 100%, all of the work is on the mom. There's that rare percentage of dad's that do the work but it's like spotting a tiger in the wild. The story you tell about your friend is something that I fear for myself. I can imagine my husband getting "overwhelmed".

In the past I've had this related problem, where during the week he'll get home from work and just veg on the couch. Granted, he works 12 hours at weird hours so that's understandable I suppose (though Lord knows that I would come home after 12 hours and still make dinner, etc) But on the weekends, when I want to do home improvement type things that I need his help with, all he EVER wants to do is relax! But if he relaxes every weekend we get nothing done. Yet this same man says he wants a fixer-upper on our next house, when the last house 90% of the "fixing" was done by me.

He's not a lazy man by any means. He has amazing work ethic. But I swear when it comes to domestic tasks, he just becomes a blob. It seems to me that he just doesn't give a crap about it. He cares about his job so he gives it 100%. Logic leads me to believe that since he doesn't give 100% (or even 50% sometimes) he doesn't care. This logic is supported in that when living alone he's an absolute slob.

I guess I need to first figure out why he doesn't care about domestic things and then how to get him to care more. Any ideas ladies?

UGH Why are men so difficult?!

NoneForUs

@elisea92

My husband once left boxes full of heavy crap in our front entrance for SIX MONTHS. I would have moved the boxes myself but they were too heavy. I admit that I lost my temper but my husband did move the boxes when he saw the smoke coming out of my ears. It took my husband TWO YEARS and several incidents of me being stuck downtown because the train shut down before my husband finally got a cell phone like he promised. 

In the past, I learned that if I want my husband to keep his promises to complete a task, asking several times politely did not work. He would only see that I was finished with his procrastination when I raised my voice. Now that we have had more than three blowouts over my husband being lazy and passive aggressive, I no longer have to remind him to do anything he promised he would do. 

My husband does very well at work and he is the first one by my side if I need him. He just has a hard time with procrastination. It is a good thing we are childfree because I know my husband would be useless with a baby in the house. My husband is great with children aged 3+ but he is clueless about babies. I've seen him just stare at my baby cousin if the little guy is crying in my husband's arms. My husband doesn't know how to change a diaper or bathe a baby. He also doesn't know how to soothe a crying infant. I know a quite a bit about babies despite not wanting any of my own. I know that I would be doing all the work if we had children. No thanks. 

I notice that the men who want kids the most are often the most apathetic fathers. 

short+sassy

NoneForUs said:

@elisea92

My husband once left boxes full of heavy crap in our front entrance for SIX MONTHS. I would have moved the boxes myself but they were too heavy. I admit that I lost my temper but my husband did move the boxes when he saw the smoke coming out of my ears. It took my husband TWO YEARS and several incidents of me being stuck downtown because the train shut down before my husband finally got a cell phone like he promised. 

In the past, I learned that if I want my husband to keep his promises to complete a task, asking several times politely did not work. He would only see that I was finished with his procrastination when I raised my voice. Now that we have had more than three blowouts over my husband being lazy and passive aggressive, I no longer have to remind him to do anything he promised he would do. 

My husband does very well at work and he is the first one by my side if I need him. He just has a hard time with procrastination. It is a good thing we are childfree because I know my husband would be useless with a baby in the house. My husband is great with children aged 3+ but he is clueless about babies. I've seen him just stare at my baby cousin if the little guy is crying in my husband's arms. My husband doesn't know how to change a diaper or bathe a baby. He also doesn't know how to soothe a crying infant. I know a quite a bit about babies despite not wanting any of my own. I know that I would be doing all the work if we had children. No thanks. 

I notice that the men who want kids the most are often the most apathetic fathers. 

I've heard that before also.  That some men are better with children at different ages.  I have a friend whose husband was really excited for them to have children.  She was also, so at least they were on the same page.

But once the baby was there, not only was he uncomfortable around the baby, but he didn't even really seem to want to learn.  He loved their baby, but basically completely lost interest in their child.  Though he would help take care of the baby.  My friend really went through a rough patch wondering what she got herself into.

However, once their child started talking and playing, it was a whole different attitude on the father's side.  He became a very involved parent and devoted father.  Not that I'm excusing his first few years of parenting, but he discovered to his dismay that he just found babies to be really boring and tedious.  But he loved interacting with children once they were older. 

rizzerazzor

I often wonder if that would be a deal breaker

dutchgirl76

That's the thing, how do you know if your spouse would be a good father before you get married? Unless you live together for a long time before marriage it's hard to really gauge these issues we've discussed. It's also hard to know how they'll change as they grow, would they "grow into a good father" with time?

My heart breaks for women who get stuck having a child or losing their husband, even though you should be on the same page before marriage, the choice to have children is always on going and seems to change with age.

elisea92

This past weekend I had a discussion with my husband regarding my anxiety over having a baby. I told him that I envision a very stressful situation with me doing a lot of the work. I walked him through a day with baby: waking up early, feeing baby, he wakes up, he does fun things with baby while I try to work, he goes to work, I feed baby lunch, dinner, bathe baby, work more, go to sleep.

He got mad because he thought I was being pessimistic and focusing on the negative.

I said I was being realistic. Granted, there will be those little wonderful moments, but overall I envision it as a stressful time where he gets to have fun and I do all the work. He still didn't believe me. I said he should talk to other individuals with children, specifically women, and see what they think.

@NoneForUs UGH. Procrastination is also something I deal with. I'm sure it's linked to a lack of interest in the task. God knows I procrastinate on studying and things like that.

@short+sassy I can definitely see him being more helpful with a toddler. He's a hands on kind of guy and I know will be great with an older child. But I'm not so sure about a baby. I don't know if I'm strong enough to go through six months of doing hard labor and no help. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic.

dutchgirl76

I don't think you're being over dramatic at all, those are REAL concerns and very valid. Do you have friends with a smaller baby that you could borrow for the day? Those talk shows used to do a baby boot camp for teens who wanted a baby, make them spend 1 or 2 days with a real life crying baby that would do all the nasty things you face. After the boot camp those girls would cry and say no children ever. I wonder if your husband had a dose of reality if he'd get what you're talking about. Just having a poor baby spit up on me is enough to say no thanks.

elisea92

@dutchgirl76 Alas, I have no friends close by with a small baby. I don't even need that though, because after he got upset he did the typical pout crap I put up with and said, "I don't even want kids anymore." Which hurt. It's not that I don't want kids, it's that I don't want kids with a husband in la-la land. I don't know if he said it because he honestly doesn't want them anymore because he realizes that I'm right or if he's just being immature about it.

I'm pretty sure it's the latter, which is not much better.

short+sassy

Warning: philosophical musings about gender roles in our society

This post has me thinking about, as much as we like to tout about being an "equal" society, we really aren't.  And I don't mean this as a bash against men or women.  But the fact is, little girls are raised and groomed from infancy to be mothers and nurturers.  We are given stuffed animals and dolls to play with.  We pretend to be "mommies" before we are even in kindergarten by feeding our doll with a bottle.

Subconsciously...and sometimes not so subconsciously...women have been preparing their whole childhood to have and take care of children.  However, the same is not true for men.  Is it any wonder then that men are sometimes more unprepared for the realities of infant care and child raising?  

chrisnjay05212010

@short+sassy i def think there is truth to that!!

elisea92

@short+sassy I think there is SO much truth to that, especially when old fashioned grandparents play incredibly significant roles in a boy's upbringing. I can't tell you how many times I've had to reiterate with him that I cook not because I'm a woman, but because I'm good at it. And he works on cars not because he's a man, but he's good at it. He'll say stuff regularly that make me want to just shake some sense into him, so I shouldn't be surprised he has this attitude towards children.