Streetcar Plans! Let's Discuss!

bkbistro

Ok, I'm a downtown junkie... i live here, i work here, i play here... and I am SO excited that the Mayor has finally announced the streetcar IS happening!  He did so last night at his State of the City address...  if anyone wants to read it please see it here:

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/03/13/text_speech.html?sid=102

Anyway, what does everyone think?  With the cost of gas skyrocketing and the significant LACK of good public transportation in Columbus, is anyone else as excited as I am???  Thoughts?  Comments?  Let's discuss!

kristylynn

I think it is great.  Now, will there be a good parking for suburban-people to then take the streetcar around downtown??  I think a rail system that goes from downtown to Hilliard Rome, Sawmill, Polaris, Morse Rd., Grove City, and Pickerington (for example) would be SWEET! 

OUAmanda927

That's very exciting! I don't think a city can really become "big" until it gets a public transport system (not including buses) and it sounds like streetcars will be perfect for the city to grow! I'm hoping it eventually goes more north than campus so I can ride it into work, but it sounds like it will be great! It will also allow the night life to improve downtown since the only option to get home is a taxi if you don't have a DD and it's past midnight and the COTAs are done...hooray!

bkbistro

Kristy - no there is not yet talk of any suburban connections...  one step at a time... it has taken them long enough to approve the downtown lines and that in itself is a HUGE step!  And I personally don't think parking is that big of an issue downtown, there is a ton of on street parking and if you can't find that there is a parking garage or surface lot on just about every block.  Also, they will be building a new parking garage in the Short North soon (right across the street from Haiku) so that will be great!

There has also been a lot of talk of the 3C rail line that would connect Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland (how awesome would that be???)

bkbistro

Amanda - Yeah, I could definitely see them expanding the lines all the way up to Worthington at some point... there are SO many people that live within walking distance of High St. it is kind of a no brainer... very exciting!

playindagamewell

I think it's awesome! I look forward to seeing it happen

buckeyechik

I'm just not all that excited by it.  It seems like it's doing exactly what the #2 does right now--go up and down High Street.  If it's viewed as a start, then maybe it's a good idea, but if it's always just going to be a way to move up and down High Street, we really already have that.  I'm much more interested in a light rail system (an old co-worker was working on some planning for it) that would have direct routes to the downtown area from the 'burbs--that would save more gas than something like this.

Temp536318000001135

It's a long time coming that is for sure! I think some sort of public transportation like streetcars or light rail is exactly what Columbus needs. I think you have to start small before expanding to the suburbs...it's not like you can do it all at once. While I do think light rail would actually be better, it's not like they would build an expansive system to the 'burbs in the first shot either. 

Phoenix is actually less than 1 year from launching its own light rail system! It's going to be limited at the beginning...basically connecting ASU-Tempe to downtown Phoenix (it'll go a tad beyond both points), but there are plans that if it goes well, over the years it will expand to other parts of the Valley.  I think most major cities, or cities that want to be major cities, need an effective public transportation system i.e. lightrail, streetcars, or Metro/subways.

bkbistro

buckeyechik - yes, the streetcar would have a similiar route to the #2 bus right now, however the buses in this city are completely unreliable... the timing is aweful... steetcars would be faster (they would contol the streetlights and have right of way), they would be free or a lot cheaper for riders and they are a lot more sustainable, running on electricity not gas... they also require a lot less repairs than buses... if you are interested in how the streetcar met its demise in Columbus you can thank a little company called GM... hmmm, i wonder why buses became so popular all at once...

here is the story (scandal):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Streetcar_Scandal

cassiehunt

I was under the impresion that the street cars were just glorified buses. Does anyone have any information about the street cars? Any articles online that explain what they are and do? I would love to read more about it.

ASwank

If I still lived downtown I would be more excited. 

However, I am a little disappoined that this is how they choose to use my tax dollars (I work in downtown so I pay columbus city taxes).  I'd prefer to see them spend this money on human services that the city is responsible for (i.e., that aren't covered by state and federal programs), such as homeless shelters and food banks -- which are so desperate for funding.  I wish I could say that increasing traffic downtown would indirectly benefit these causes but it likely won't.  For a democratic mayor, I've always been shocked that he is so excited to promote commercial development in the downtown area but not human services.

bkbistro

cassie - i couldnt find any specific articles outlining streetcars but i do know the basics... i outlined them in one of my above posts... the biggest things however are the sustainablity of the systems and the economic impact it will have on everything it touches...

"Certainly, vehicles with rubber tires appear to offer the flexibility to change
routes easily. We learned, however, that the inflexibility of a rail line is what
attracts developers to build alongside it.  The steel tracks in the ground signify
that this is a long-term transportation investment and assure developers they can
offer residents and employees easy rail access for years to come. They use the rail
line in their marketing materials ? because trains attract customers. A bus route
does not offer that same guarantee, nor attraction, and thus can not claim nearly
the same success."

brainstorm102

We always have trouble finding parking downtown. A garage in the Short North will be very welcome!

stephpalmerface

I agree 100% Erin - we've actually bailed on dinner reservations and skipped gallery hops because the parking is always such a nightmare! 

wacissej2

I'm a huge fan of public transportation so I'm glad the streetcar is coming back to Columbus. But that being said, I can't see us using it until the rail lines move out to the suburbs. And I agree that public lines need to be done in babysteps and thought out very carefully otherwise they end up being abandoned. So most likely it'll be awhile before the burbs see their own stops but until then I hope the urbanites enjoy riding!

cork2win

I have to agree with buckeyechik, I think it's a waste of taxpayer money.  Obviously we don't have a lot of details but I remember hearing about this when the plans were first discussed, and the "streetcars" were going to be nothing more than glorified busses, just like another poster mentioned.

Obviously now he mentions "sleek, electrified" which sounds nice, and maybe they've changed their plans, but I'd have to see the details of what these vehicles actually are before deciding.  If they're anything other than true "rail" vehicles, or at least very efficient electric cars of some sort there's no way I could get behind this.  Even if they are electric cars I'm still skeptical.

I just don't know how much of a need there really is for this kind of thing, especially if it's only going to run downtown.  I think if they don't focus on connecting it to the burbs sooner than later, it will die a slow, painful, expensive death before it ever makes itself available to those people that really need it most, those in the burbs traveling downtown.

Now, the CCC railway I am totally for.  I miss the Chicago railway system I grew so accustomed to.

cassiehunt

I didn't realize they were on actual rail lines. Are they like the trolleys in San Francisco?

If they are on rail lines, it might be a huge step toward going out to some of the suburbs where the rail lines also go. I would be really excited to see that.

bkbistro

cork - they are definitely more than glorified buses.  streetcars bring economic development, something that downtown needs right now... if you havent noticed, downtown columbus is struggling.  if you dont have a strong downtown how can you have strong suburbs?  not to mention... why would you even live in a suburb of a place that isnt even worth visiting.  also, why should we be depending on buses...when they are one of the more inefficient, wasteful systems ever created?  rail is the way to go and any start is a good start.  it all needs to start downtown and then maybe the suburbs will follow....  but until then, there is no point in being a suburb to nothing.

Temp536318000001135

The Columbus streetcar system is going to be modeled after the very successful system that can be found in Portland, Oregon. In fact, I believe members of the Streetcar committee traveled to Portland a year or two ago to see what it is like. I've looked at the Portland site a few times (my former boss at Ohio State was a member of the Streetcar city committee, so I heard and read lots about it), so I would suggest checking it out. In fact it has a whole development report on it and has totally revitalized that area.  http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/index.php

From an environmental standpoint, I have to think streetcars are better than tons of buses running up and down High Street. Mass transit in the form of light rail, streetcars, subways/Metro are much more sustainable than tons of buses and cars. Obviously I'm a fan (kinda wish I was still living in Columbus to see this hopefully become a reality!) of mass public transit, but I'm a city girl at heart. Grandview was as "suburbish" as I could handle

Mrs.Jenn&Jeff

I rarely go downtown, but when we were in Europe this winter, I mentioned to my husband that we would probably go downtown more if there were a train and decent public transportation to move us around. Columbus has a lot to offer, but sometimes the effort to get there doesn't exactly balance with the experience.

I think it's very possible to have successful suburbs outside of a dying city. Look at Detroit and Cleveland...it's still a nice place to live, almost despite the downtowns.

That being said, I would love to give Columbus a boost and bring more attention to the downtown. If the streetcars are a start of a bigger infrastructure, great. Where the real money should be spent is making it easy and fun to bring the suburbanites into the city for an evening. It's completely possible...in fact, they've managed to perfect it in Scotland.

bkbistro

yeah, very good point!  there does need to be stuff to do downtown that makes it worth it to travel downtown!  thats the good thing about the streetcar, it spurs economic development, hte catch phrase right now is 'high street first' because if we can build a strong high street, everything else will follow...

also, they are bringing the ballpark downtown along with creating more attractrions such as the new art museum in the lazarus building and a possible new train station for the 3C's right downtown... there is a ton going on that is worth getting excited about!  a streetcar will only help it!

Busty_Wench

I hope they build it past campus into Clintonville.  It sounds like something the hippies will love.  I for one, am within walking distance of High Street so I'm all for it. 
Also, if gas hits $9/gallon I will buy a horse. 

jannypie

i think its great, columbus really needs a public transportation service to bring it into the 21st century with the rest of the big cities. and columbus as the state capital needs to make big strides to modernizing and lead the way for the state as a whole. this is something that needs to happen, along with increasing business, quality of education and public services. i think once some loving attention has been spent on those items, ohio will really be a state to be proud of and continue to be successful in the future.

ASwank

I hope that this is not viewed as me harping on a point -- but here I go.  I think that until the city addresses its human service issues (as I discussed above), the street cars are likely to end up much like COTA.  That is, because it is a cheap(er) way to move throughout the city (particularly if you don't have a care), it will attract a certain clientele that will put off a lot of people from using it for what they say are "safety" reasons.

While I do hope the streetcar is successful, I wish Columbus would support its underadvantaged citizens too.

Manday

I dont see how its really an improvement, doesn't the #2 bus take the same route? How is it any better?

I think they would be much better off spending the money to improve the bussing or other forms of public transportation that are not around high street. I checked out bussing, just out of curiosity, from my new neighborhood to downtown/campus and it would be a nightmare to use it. I agree trains to the suburbs would make a lot more sense.

bkbistro

Manday - I posted this up near the top but here it is again...

yes, the streetcar would have a similiar route to the #2 bus right now, however the buses in this city are completely unreliable... the timing is aweful... steetcars would be faster (they would contol the streetlights and have right of way), they would be free or a lot cheaper for riders and they are a lot more sustainable, running on electricity not gas... they also require a lot less repairs than buses... if you are interested in how the streetcar met its demise in Columbus you can thank a little company called GM... hmmm, i wonder why buses became so popular all at once...

here is the story (scandal):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
i/Great_American_Streetcar_Scandal

tmp-190333

I agree with ASwank's first point whole heartedly.