Nursing moms - supply question

TudorRose11 · November 2013

Do any of you have any tried and true remedies for increasing milk supply? I have read about fenugreek and Mother's Milk tea but wondered if any of you had any personal experience with anything that actually worked for you.

I pump frequently throughout the day. When DS latches (we only do this a few times a day) I can hear him swallowing at first but it mostly turns into comfort nursing and he drifts off.

I get about 4-5oz from my first pump in the morning (both breasts) but I'm lucky to get 1.5-2oz from both at each of my following pumps.

Any tips?

sgautschi · November 2013

I know upping your water and calorie intake can help. I've heard a lot of women talk about fenugreek and lactation cookies. I haven't tried them personally, but it's worth a try if you want to increase your supply. Although yours seems fine to me. How often do you pump?

Whippet8 · November 2013

I took calcium/magnesium/zinc. One pill, three times a day. Lots of water, make sure you aren't too stressed.

Is that amount in addition to him eating? or instead?

Sometimes it helps to keep pumping even after the flow has stopped to try to get another letdown. I also made sure to massage while I pumped to make sure everything was coming out.

Whippet8 · November 2013

Also, look up power pumping. lactation cookies.

TudorRose11 · November 2013

That amount is what he eats not in addition to so I supplement with formula. Those pumps are not storage, I can barely keep up with regular feeds. When he latches he doesn't eat much before he dozes off so we bottle feed. He is eating 3oz bottles so when I get 1.5oz from both breasts I haven't gotten enough for even one bottle.

I will look into the cookies, thanks!

Whippet8 · November 2013

have you looked at kellymom.com?

Whippet8 · November 2013

Also, he sounds very similar to how Cora was. Here is my story...

http://babybocker.blogspot.com/2012/09/our-breastfeeding-saga.html

Whippet8 · November 2013

I need to think everything through before I post. I think that since he is still so new, your body will catch up, as long as you are doing everything you can. The pump is less efficient than a baby. Especially a baby eating from a bottle instead of the breast (I don't mean that in a mean way, just that babies tend to eat more from a bottle because it is easier). You might have to pump more often than he eats to tell your body you need more.

bobcee · November 2013

Best thing is try to get him to latch every time then pump afterwards. It took two months with Delilah to get her to latch well every time without the nipple shield or her falling asleep etc, but we managed and got there.

I also used fenugreek several times with Delilah because of low supply. Any time I would notice a drop I would take 3 pills 3 times a day and would notice an increase within a couple days. You want to take enough so that you smell like maple syrup. Oatmeal and brewers yeast as well as mothers milk tea are also recommendations. I can say that I do notice an increase when I have a beer if you're not opposed.

And It actually sounds like you're getting more than I was at the time and after my initial struggles I was able to EBF until she was 15 mo old, so trust your body, try not to stress, drink lots of water and just keep at it.

TudorRose11 · November 2013

Whippet8 said:
Also, he sounds very similar to how Cora was. Here is my story...

http://babybocker.blogspot.com/2012/09/our-breastfeeding-saga.html

Thank you for sharing this. Our story is very similar to yours. I had 4 different lactation consultants and 3 nurses try to help me latch him properly before we left and the morning we left, he and I were both sobbing because he was so hungry.

The main difference is that he doesn't sleep as hard as she did. He definitely wakes up hungry during the day and is ready and willing to eat but if I latch him he just kind of lays there and nuzzles instead of eating.

TudorRose11 · November 2013

@bobcee My MIL mentioned the beer and I am definitely not opposed. I will try it. It sounds like I need to try to latch him more often (I'll admit, I don't do it as often as I should because I dread how hungry he acts afterward) and introduce the other things after.

sgautschi · November 2013

I thought that's what you were pumping in addition to him eating, so I take back my comment about your supply seeming fine.

I hope the ladies advice will help you! Try not to stress for sure, stress does crazy things to the body.

NotMrsSmith11 · November 2013

I take fenugreek (5 pills 3x a day) and domperidone (a prescription). In the beginning I did tons of skin to skin and nursing on demand. I pump for 15 minutes after every feeding. I did a lot of power pumping in the beginning, and still do sometimes now. I drink and eat a lot (maybe too much!)

Oatmeal made no difference for me, although it helps some people. I also tried goat's rue, which did nothing.

We had latch issues in the beginning in addition to supply issues. I just unlatched and relatched him over and over. I would rub his head and back with a washcloth if he fell asleep, and rub his cheek with my finger to keep him sucking.

cinderin · November 2013

http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/low-supply/

This is the kelly mom page.

I had some supply issues (I can tell you the long story of why if you are interested).

What I did was to eat oatmeal, take suppliments, etc but I am not sure if those helped.

What I know helped was feeding him (at the breast) and then pumping for 30 minutes after each feed. He usually ate about once every two hours during the day, maybe average of 3 at night.

It was a lot of time/work. I did it for about three weeks, but two might have been ok. I did power pumping too.

I know the pumping helped. Most of the time I would only get maybe an ounce in the 30 minutes.

It is hard! Hang in there, it is worth it :-)

TudorRose11 · November 2013

@cinderin - if you are willing to share I would love to hear the whole thing!

Thank you for posting the link, I will definitely be looking into that.

emw1023 · November 2013

With him having trouble latching, have you checked to see if he's tongue tied? K was and we had it snipped while we were still in the hospital. It's just a thought ...

I have tried oatmeal and I do notice a difference with that. I've always been concerned about low supply, but your body will tell you what you need too.

cinderin · November 2013

It is going to be long... :-)

So DS was born on 8/1 via c/s due to breech (6lbs 4oz). I knew I wanted to BF if possible, I didn't know how truly important it would become to me or that it would be one of the hardest things I would ever do.

I was in the hospital for about two days. While I was there I did a lot of skin to skin and BF DS. Lactation Consultants (LC) came by a couple times a day. They told me I had "flat nipples" and told me to use a nipple shield. A pediatrician from the office I had signed up to use came by and diagnosed DS as having a tongue tie (TT). The same pediatrician snipped it on the second day (8/2). I had sore nipples but it wasn't too bad. We went home.

Regret/thing I wish I would have done differently - never use the nipple shield!

It took about 5 days for my milk to come in (which is normal but on the longer side of normal). We went back for a follow up appointment about three days after leaving the hospital. DS had lost 10% body weight (which is normal but worries the doctors). My incision looked fine but they were worried about DS due to the weight loss. Really, my milk had only just come in, but they had me worried. The LC wanted me to supplement him with formula or my own pumped milk. We were to come back in three days. They gave me syringes and small tubes and directions for how to finger feed DS. They wanted me to feed him every two hours all day and night. Wake him up and keep him awake. They told me to continue to use the nipple shield due to my "flat nipples".

I was so determined that he would have my milk. When we got home, I would feed him and pump. I would finger feed him my pumped milk. We tracked everything, every time he ate, how long he ate, how much BM we finger fed him, every wet and dirty diaper. I would get 45 minutes of sleep at a time (if I was lucky).

Regret/thing I wish I had done differently - I should not have finger fed DS!

We went back to the next appointment and DS was gaining well. They made an appointment for us for the next week. We were still supposed to track everything and feed him every two hours.

Well, we went home and DS wouldn't take the breast. He would cry and cry. He would shake his head back and forth. He would beat my breasts with his hands. He refused the breast.

Finger feeding him made him want to eat that way, not at the breast.

Well, we went back for our next appointment with the LC (a different one that before) and showed her what he was doing. I was in tears. A recurring theme, I cried and said "I just want to BF my baby". The LC said he was refusing the breast. She sighed, looked me in the eye and told me what we needed to do. She said we needed to pump milk and put it in the syringe. Hold him next to the breast, when he opens his mouth, squirt the milk in his mouth, put the nipple in his mouth, squirt and if he latches, keep squirting. While he cries and refused the breast. We needed to do this every two hours. She said one feed it might get better and the next it might get worse, but that over time it would work.

So, with 45 minutes of sleep, I would try to get my tiny screaming newborn son to latch on to my breast. While holding my son, the nipple shield, the syringe of milk and my breast. After that, I would pump (so I had milk to squirt in his mouth the next time) and I would do it again.

It took 3 days. Some feeds would get better, then he would go back to refusing. Soon more were better than worse and then the refusing eventually stopped. It took sheer force of will on my part. It was really truly quite possibly the hardest thing I have ever done.

Well, DS was back to his birth weight, so we no longer had to feed him every two hours (even though he probably ate every two hours any way). He was eating at the breast and I was getting more than 45 minutes of sleep. Things were getting better. I would feed him at the breast all day and then at night I would feed him at the breast and put him down for the night and pump once. I was beginning to build a small stash for going back to work.

Looking back, I think my supply started to go down mid-September. DS would get fussy at the breast. I thought it was just some of the residual "refusing". I am 90%+ sure it was the nipple shield that stopped him from fully emptying my breast, which resulted in less milk being made. I would try to get DS to latch without the shield, but he wouldn't do it. It was like he didn't even see the nipple or know what it was without the shield. So I kept using it.

At the end of September I got pretty sick. I had a fever for three or four days of 101. I felt bad for over two weeks. I was alone with DS since DH couldn't miss work. It was really hard. I think being sick also contributed to lowering my supply.

We went in for DS's 2 month check up. He had always been in the 5th percentile but he had dropped below that and DS's pediatrician was worried. She told me I could supplement with formula or my own milk. She told me to try to get off the nipple shield. She made an appointment for two weeks later to weigh him.

Again, I felt like I was failing at BF. I was so upset. I cried and cried "I just want to BF my baby". I didn't want to give up. I knew if I gave up, I would regret it always.

I thought about the pediatrician's directions. DS was two months but I had not introduced a bottle because I was so afraid - afraid he would love the bottle and refuse the breast. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get him back to the breast again. The fight to get him back to the breast the first time took all the fight out of me. I didn't think I had it in me to do it again.

I didn't want this to be the end of breastfeeding and I was so afraid that this was going to be it. I had a small freezer stash from my once a day pumping. So I thawed some milk, put it in a Tommee Tippee bottle and with all of the strength I had in me, after I BF DS, I fed it him the bottle. He drank it like a champ, I cried and felt like a failure. "I just want to BF my baby". Then I pumped.

I read the Kelly Mom pages on increasing your supply. God bless Kelly Mom.

I wasn't sure it was going to work. I didn't know what I was going to do when I ran out of freezer milk. I had about 50 ounces.

To my great joy - feeding DS from the bottle did not make him refuse the breast. We had periods where he was fussy at the breast and I would panic and think he was refusing it, but he wasn't. I was just overly sensitive.

So every feeding, I would feed DS at the breast and then I would pump for 30 minutes. A few times a day (maybe 3?) I would feed him at the breast and then give him a bottle of milk. I continued to try to get him to take the breast without the shield.

When I first started doing this, I would pump for the 30 minutes and not even get half an ounce. The challenge was what to do with DS while I pumped when I was alone (which was all week - DH was around on the weekends). Often I would have to put DS in the car seat and rock him with one hand while I pumped. It was easier if I could get him to sleep and then pump, which I could do at night and whenever I could get him to nap.

I was slowly going through my small stash.

I was also eating tons of oatmeal, mothers milk tea and supplements. Drinking tons of water, making sure to eat lots of food, lactation cookies, etc.

It was really hard. Every day I would cry "I just want to BF my baby". I felt like I had come so far, I didn't want to fail now.

After the first week, I decided to try something new to get DS to take the breast without the shield. After I pumped, my nipples were the least "flat". I fed him a bottle (so he wasn't hungry) and then I took a bottle with milk in it and dripped milk on to my nipples. He took it without the shield! It was only for a few seconds, but I was so happy. I did this a few more times. It only took me about a day of this and we were going shield free! I wasn't sure this day would ever come, but here we were!

Within a few days my nipples were very very sore. They had blisters, bleeding, and were incredibly painful at all times. It took about three weeks for my nipples to adjust and heal. It was tough!

After two weeks, we went back to the doctor's office. DS had gained a pound in two weeks! The pediatrician told me to keep it up!

By about the end of the second week, we had used about half of my small stash, but I was pumping enough each day for three bottles of three ounces each. So I decided that I would start only giving DS what I had pumped each day and stop dipping into my stash.

By the end of the third week, DS was going through the 12 week growth spurt. It became impossible for me to feed him and pump. He wanted to feed all the time. So, another leap of faith - I stopped pumping. I just put him to the breast again and again. To my amazement, it worked. There was now enough milk there! I was so relieved and happy.

That was the magic "three month" mark where BF gets significantly easier.

We are now at almost 4 months and it is soooo much easier. Things are going really well for us. Our next hurdle will be him going to daycare and me pumping at work. But I am hopeful it will work.

I think BF has been one of the hardest things I have ever done. It might be the hardest. I never anticipated how important it would be to me. How little sleep I would get and how hard it would be. But I can say it was worth it to me. I know if I had given up I would have regretted it always, and I didn't want that. I wanted to keep trying, no matter how hard.

It was so hard to believe at the time - but it does get easier! Really truly. :-)

TudorRose11 · November 2013

@cinderin - thank you so, so much for sharing that with me. You have no idea how much better it makes me feel to hear stories like yours and Whippets. You should be incredibly proud for fighting that hard to get where you are!

I can relate to you in some ways. My LC/nurses also told me my nipples were flat. Because of my blood loss after birth I wasn't able to even hold him, let alone feed him, for hours. Once we got up to postpartum I tried to feed him. The nurse there at the time told me my nipples were flat and got me a nipple shield within two minutes of trying to feed him for the first time ever. No joke.

It wasn't the right size shield and didn't help at all. I just latched him myself (incorrectly) without it until later that day when the LC was on duty. She brought me a different nipple shield within minutes as well - still didn't help at all. Now I'm glad it didn't. I never thought about how difficult it may be to transition from the shield to without had it worked.

You are so right though. BF is incredibly hard and I had no idea how hard it would be. I don't know if I was blissfully unaware or if I wasn't told, but wow.

His latch is much better now, just from time I guess. It's not perfect and I am still in pain afterward but it's nothing like it was those first few days.

I have put him to the breast more today than I have in the past few weeks. I will just keep at it, try the remedies and hopefully my supply will increase.

Nursing moms - supply question

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