Help me get started...Wills

Ducktale · December 2013

One of my goals for 2014 is to get us a will. I don't know why I feel so lost, but where do I begin? Any resources out there to give information? Links to websites? Advice on where to start? I'm even having trouble with just google searches since the word "will" isn't exactly a great search term.

Seriously guys. I need a 101. I feel like a total newb with this.

brij2006 · December 2013

Here's a bit of information I found, and is what we used to help set ours up ourselves. http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/what-to-include-in-a-simple-will.html

P.S. I know that setting up our will ourselves means nothing in court, but we have it set up in case we both were to pass away together and both sets of our parents know where it is in our house. It has strict instructions as to what we want done with certain money, and we have them set up appropriately as beneficiaries on everything.

You do not have children, correct? We were actually advised to set ours up this way until we have children. Then do an actual Will with a lawyer. Just make sure all of your beneficiaries are listed appropriately in your investments and life insurance so there aren't any issues. We have each of our parents listed as contingent beneficiaries with 25% going to each of them.

My mom is also set up on all of our bank accounts, because she knows exactly what we want done with the money and we trust her to take care of things in those accounts if something were to happen to us.

The only reason we have this set up so strict is because we do car trips that involve track racing where we ride together at high speeds. So the likelihood of us going out together is higher than most.

maple2 · December 2013

Are you or DH able to enroll in legal benefits through your employer? We have legal benefits which allowed us to work with a lawyer on a basic will for free (aside from the monthly legal insurance fee).

Ducktale · December 2013

@maple2, I have no idea! I didn't know that was a benefit. I'm starting a new positions in January, I'll look and see. That would be so great if they did.

@brij2006, we do not have children now, but we are going to start TTC in the next few months. So maybe it makes more sense to wait until we have children to set one up with a lawyer?

Also a follow up question that should probably be obvious...how does one find a lawyer for this? Google? None of my friends in my area are very on top of these types of things, so I highly doubt I can just go off of recommendations.

brij2006 · December 2013

That's actually what we were advised since we would have to pay to initially begin the will, then pay again to revise it once we have children. Granted making revisions isn't too costly, but we were advised to just make sure our beneficiaries are set up accordingly on both our investments and life insurance in case we both were to pass away together.

The will itself is a typed out document that includes all of the information in that link I posted. Then we had it notarized, and it is kept in our safe. We told both sets of our parents how we wanted things handled, where a copy of our "will" is, and what we want done with some of the money.

Now, we also have very good working relationships with both sets of our parents and our parents get along together very well. I'm not saying there wouldn't be issues if something were to happen (H's dad can get pretty money hungry). But our finances are pretty simple right now, and we feel comfortable with just having a notarized sheet of paper for the time being.

brij2006 · December 2013

As far as how to find a lawyer, I actually asked around at my place of employment.

hoffse · December 2013

Here's my $0.02 -

First, do make sure to consult a lawyer about your will. I'm not just saying this because I'm a lawyer. Legalzoom is seriously one of the worst things to happen to the internet.

Every state has its own laws, and you need to make sure you're talking to a lawyer licensed in your state so that it's valid and would withstand a fight in court.

I would also talk to the lawyer about setting up a trust so that all your assets actually go to the trust when you die, and then they are administered from the trust directly. Probating a will takes FOREVER, especially when the court has to go through and make sure everything went to the correct heir in the correct amounts. Typically, having it all go to a trust speeds things up and ends up being a lot less expensive. The trustee has license to administer the assets according to the terms of the trust whenever he or she sees fit. You typically don't have to get a court blessing to do it. It costs a bit more upfront to have it arranged this way, but it usually pays for itself a few times over after you die. At the very least, it's worth asking your lawyer about it. Some folks prefer the traditional will, but I personally do not. H and I will use the trust + pour over clause method when the time comes for us to set one up.

As far as finding a lawyer, google is a good place to start. I think it's a bit better than the yellow pages. Click on the firm websites and see what they offer. Estate planning is what you want to be looking for. I personally would not do business with a firm that has fewer than 10 attorneys - simply because smaller firms may not have the resources or experience to do anything other than boilerplate for you. It will be a bit more expensive to go to a slightly larger firm, but I think that some things in life are worth paying for, and good legal work is one of those things.

You don't have to wait until you have kids to set up a will. A good lawyer should be able to draft it to incorporate the possibility of children going into the future (as long as your state permits it). I would do it now while you don't have childcare expenses.

Also think about what you want to have happen to your assets, especially if you plan on leaving them to future hypothetical children. I'm an only child, and when I was little my parents' will basically left things to me in stages - at age 25 I got a chunk, at age 35 I got a chunk, and at age 45 I got the rest. The idea was the make sure I didn't get a couple million while I was an irresponsible 20-year-old. After I graduated from law school and they were sure I was financially responsible, they changed it to be a single lump sum, regardless of my age when they died. They also changed it to make me the executor. So you might want to consider your will as something that will work for a certain number of years before revisiting it. It doesn't have to be one and done.

Finally, and I can't express this enough, make sure your lawyer puts in a simultaneous death provision that is CORRECT. Because this is probably the biggest common mistake that happens. Simultaneous death provisions basically say that in the event you die within x hours of each other or the first-to-die is unknown (ie: car crash), then A will be considered dead before B. And in that case, B's will is the will that governs. The thing you have to be really careful about here is to make sure that both wills agree with each other on this, and that's where lawyers sometimes screw up. If one will says that A's will should govern, and the other says that B's will should govern, then they cancel each other out. Your lawyer should know this, but do review it before signing and make sure they agree with one another.

I would also do two single wills instead of a joint will. They can be mirrors of each other, but I would still have two separate ones.

Finally, remember that unless your will is to be probated in GA, you can't disinherit your spouse completely - though children are fair game

I doubt you want to do that, but I do get those phone calls every now and then...

hoffse · December 2013

Also let me know if you have any other general questions. I can't answer specific questions since I'm not licensed in your state (and I can't give you legal advice), but all wills have some common ground.

Also? Good on you for thinking about this. The vast majority of people who don't have a will avoid it because they don't like thinking about their own mortality. Well yes, it's morbid. But it's also inevitable. ANY estate plan is better than none.

And I can't believe I forgot to say this - but your ideal lawyer is one who has experience in tax as well. They should have bios online that briefly list areas of expertise. Make sure estate planning and taxation are both on there. They will be able to help you set up not just a will, but a tax-advantaged estate plan. That can be worth its weight in gold to your heirs. Again, probably a bit more expensive upfront, but it pays for itself when the government doesn't get as much of your assets when you die.

Ducktale · December 2013

Thanks so much for the info! This helps a lot.

@hoffse, or anyone else, do you have any recommendations on where to start my own research? I'm sure I'll eventually talk with a lawyer, but are there websites/books/anything else that has helpful info on the process or things to consider for a will? I'll definitely check out the link that brij2006 recommended.

hoffse · December 2013

Eh... what I learned about wills I learned from this textbook:

http://www.amazon.com/Wills-Trusts-Estates-Edition-Casebook/dp/1454824573/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387224158&sr=8-1&keywords=dukeminier+wills+and+trusts

There might be some lay materials out there to get you started, but wills aren't typically things you do yourself. It's usually more of a Q&A with the lawyer who asks you about your assets and where you want them to go and if there are any special provisions you want. And then the lawyer does it for you.

Generally the big things you want are:

-Inexpensive administration

-Tax-advantaged

-Thorough distribution of assets

The lawyer should talk you through these things.

The rest is entirely dependent on your preferences. I actually think calling a lawyer is the first step, rather than a great deal of independent research.

If you still want to look stuff up, you can always check out this website (which I use) - but it's more oriented toward lawyers who draft wills than people who just want to know what they do:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/trusts_estates_prof/

brij2006 · December 2013

@hoffse I was hoping you would jump in. :-)

Also, I will ditto her on setting up a Trust. That is what we will set up first once we do go the route of a will. What we are doing now, we wouldn't have done if we had a lot of assets or cash in the banks. If we do not have children by the time I'm 30, then we will be working with a lawyer. At that age I will receive full benefits and ownership of some farm land worth $500k, and we want that to be able to sustain itself and go to my dad or brother and not H's family.

hoffse · December 2013

H and I don't actually have wills yet because we have no real assets. We have joint bank accounts and POD's set up for our retirement accounts, etc. and that's really it. I suppose we have our vehicles - but those aren't worth a huge amount by this point. Maybe a couple grand apiece.

When we have more assets/are contemplating children we'll get our estate plan put into place. But we will be going with trusts primarily.

vlagrl29 · December 2013

I didn't read all responses but go to an attorney to get your wills done. If you don't do it the right way it may not be valid. The attorney makes it really easy to do. we had ours done last year.

MommyLiberty5013 · December 2013

Another point is that POD listings on accounts trump wills. So if you have Person A listed as POD on an account, but the will says Person B, the asset still goes to Person A.

Many people write letters to loved ones that are kept with wills. Like if you were to die tomorrow, what would you want your spouse to know? Memories? Thoughts? Same for your kids (when you have them).

My friend is an attorney who specializes in this stuff. She has a client who told her that her mother died when she was 10. At the time of her mom's death, they were fighting like moms and daughters sometimes do. The daughter carries a doubt of whether or not her mom was still angry with her. If she had a letter from her mom, she told my attorney friend, she would have felt a lot better and would have known for sure about her mom's feelings for her.

If you do a will, you should also invest the time and money to set up Power of Attorney and to write Living Wills/Health Care Directives.

jessica490 · December 2013

H and I had a will made up in February this year by a lawyer that was recommended to me by someone at my last job. We've used him for home closings and he is awesome. He charged us $400 to get the will set up. I have a hard time understanding all the legal terms so working with him for about 1-2 hours was pretty simple. He advised us the things that we would need to set up. We don't plan on having any kids, nor do we have a lot of assets but I wanted one just to feel safe and know that things would be taken care of in case anything happened to us. I swear, when people pass away, family can be vultures...I've seen it. It's best to just go talk to someone if you know nothing about the subject like myself.

lfk2013 · December 2013

This is actually a good thing for me to stumble upon. DH has been talking about putting one together for while. Thanks for all the info!

MommyLiberty5013 · December 2013

Don't let anybody tell you that just because you do not have a lot of assets and are not wealthy that you do not need a will!

hoffse · December 2013

Eh there are circumstances where you don't need a will. H and I really don't need one right now because virtually all of our assets are in joint accounts. Those that aren't name each other as the POD beneficiaries and our respective parents as contingent beneficiaries. But when you're contemplating children or you buy a house, etc. they start to become more important, primarily in the case of simultaneous death.

H and I have talked about foregoing the will entirely and just doing everything in trust (except for custody of children). It's awfully tempting to avoid probate court, and there are ways to get around it.

But for most folks a will makes sense.

orangehills · December 2013

We're waiting until we have kids, and then I plan to make a trust instead of a will. Trusts are SO much easier for your family over a will. I think they do cost more to set up though, I'm not sure. But yah, I'm planning to wait till I'm like 7 months pregnant and then make one!!

Edit: I don't want to do one now, just because if it was just me, or just my husband, the other gets everything. If we got out together, our parents will just have to sit down and figure stuff out! But once there are kids in the mix, I'll be all over it.

Help me get started...Wills

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