Money Matters
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Amazingly high levels of financial illiteracy

I just read this article that I thought might be of interest to folks on this board-- http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-danger-of-financial-ignorance-do-you-understand-money/361851/

It summarizes an article by 2 economists who asked people around the world the following 3 questions.  At least to me, the low levels of correct responses were shockingly high and give me more perspective on why people may make what I consider to be really irrational money choices.

1.  Suppose you had $100 in a savings account and the interest rate was 2 percent per year. After five years, how much do you think you would have in the account if you left the money to grow? A) more than $102; B) exactly $102; C) less than $102; D) do not know; refuse to answer.

2.  Imagine that the interest rate on your savings account is 1 percent per year and inflation is 2 percent per year. After one year, would you be able to buy A) more than, B) exactly the same as, or C) less than today with the money in this account?; D) do not know; refuse to answer.

3.  Do you think that the following statement is true or false? “Buying a single company stock usually provides a safer return than a stock mutual fund.” A) true; B) false; C) do not know; refuse to answer.


Re: Amazingly high levels of financial illiteracy

  • OO, I got them all right! Interesting article, thanks for sharing!
  • hoffsehoffse member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    Oh my god.  This is seriously disturbing.
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  • That is fascinating stuff.  Thanks for sharing!

    I really think its abhorrent that there is not a basic financial literacy unit taught in school (not in my state, at least).  For many kids, this is the one type of math they will grow up to actually use on a daily basis, though of course I do support all math ed and think the other stuff matters too.  Its pretty easy for me to go down the "conspiracy theory" road with this stuff, but that's a problem for another day.  I don't actually know if finance is included in the new Common Core.  Paging any teachers out there?
  • maple2maple2 member
    Ninth Anniversary 500 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    I looked through the actual article in response to your questions CHICK.  (Since I did the original posting I felt obligated to follow-up).  The first question is actually designed to assess "numeracy and the capacity to calculations related to interest rates," so basically it is a math question but one that is directly related to a person's ability to manage their money.  The second looks at "understanding of inflation", and the third is about "understanding of risk diversification."

    There are tables in the report that show how many people in each country answered each question correctly if you are interested, but in the US in 2009 64.9% answered question 1 correctly, 64.3% got question 2 and 51.8% were right about question 3.  So, it's true that the the 30% figure in the article I linked (which is the percent of people who answered all 3 questions correctly) is lower than the level for any individual question.  Maybe that means people know a bit more than than 30% suggests, but the authors make the case that to effectively manage money, especially in a context where retirement savings is increasingly managed by individuals, people need to do be able to answer all 3 questions correctly.

    I have been blessed with good math genes and a family who is financially savvy, so I thought the questions in the article were pretty straight forward.  I still find a lot of investing over my head (or at least requiring more time than I have been able to find to understand it); I can only imagine what it must be like for people who find those questions difficult.
  • I don't understand the common core thing?  Is it a new thing?  I've heard people talk about it and that is why they are homeschooling.  Really it needs to be up to the parents I guess to teach their kids about finance, but if the parents suck at it then of course the kids will too.  Unless they are willing to teach themselves about it eventually.
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  • hoffsehoffse member
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    edited May 2014
    vlagrl29 said:
    I don't understand the common core thing?  Is it a new thing?  I've heard people talk about it and that is why they are homeschooling.  Really it needs to be up to the parents I guess to teach their kids about finance, but if the parents suck at it then of course the kids will too.  Unless they are willing to teach themselves about it eventually.
    I don't know a TON about it since I'm not a teacher, and I don't have school-aged kids... but it's the next "thing" handed down by the federal gov to try to make teaching/learning standardized across all states.  By many accounts, it's been a disaster.  This is an extremely biased article basically bashing it... and while I'm sure this guy picked out the worst examples he could find, they are still pretty bad:

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/common-core-math-wont-believe-subtraction-method-taught-americas-kids/

    I'm trying to reserve judgment about it, because people tend to harp on about the best and the worst of it.  You're right that teaching really starts at home.

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  • hoffsehoffse member
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    Also - I do wonder how much "Common Core" is aimed at getting kids into programming, engineering, and other similar fields.  The way they are breaking down math is a lot more theoretical with the groups of tens thing, vs. using the stacked method with addition/subtraction tables as we were all taught.

    It's interesting - I know that when I add/subtract in my head I tend to visualize it in groups of 100s, 10s, 5s, etc. But when I have pencil and paper I stack.  I actually don't think one approach is better, and it's probably worthwhile learning both.
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  • hoffse said:
    vlagrl29 said:
    I don't understand the common core thing?  Is it a new thing?  I've heard people talk about it and that is why they are homeschooling.  Really it needs to be up to the parents I guess to teach their kids about finance, but if the parents suck at it then of course the kids will too.  Unless they are willing to teach themselves about it eventually.
    I don't know a TON about it since I'm not a teacher, and I don't have school-aged kids... but it's the next "thing" handed down by the federal gov to try to make teaching/learning standardized across all states.  By many accounts, it's been a disaster.  This is an extremely biased article basically bashing it... and while I'm sure this guy picked out the worst examples he could find, they are still pretty bad:

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/common-core-math-wont-believe-subtraction-method-taught-americas-kids/

    I'm trying to reserve judgment about it, because people tend to harp on about the best and the worst of it.  You're right that teaching really starts at home.

    no need to say more after you stated the bolded. LOL.  I student taught in 2004/2005 and don't remember this.  BUT I'm a music teacher so maybe it didn't really apply to us.  Dang now I worry about DD getting this type of process because I know she will be creative just like DH and I and both of us struggled so much on standardized testing but we both got into great colleges that applied to our field because we could perform those things well.
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  • hoffse said:
    vlagrl29 said:
    I don't understand the common core thing?  Is it a new thing?  I've heard people talk about it and that is why they are homeschooling.  Really it needs to be up to the parents I guess to teach their kids about finance, but if the parents suck at it then of course the kids will too.  Unless they are willing to teach themselves about it eventually.
    I don't know a TON about it since I'm not a teacher, and I don't have school-aged kids... but it's the next "thing" handed down by the federal gov to try to make teaching/learning standardized across all states.  By many accounts, it's been a disaster.  This is an extremely biased article basically bashing it... and while I'm sure this guy picked out the worst examples he could find, they are still pretty bad:

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/common-core-math-wont-believe-subtraction-method-taught-americas-kids/

    I'm trying to reserve judgment about it, because people tend to harp on about the best and the worst of it.  You're right that teaching really starts at home.

    Oh my Gosh Hoffse.  Reading the comments in that link are hilarious! Thank you for the entertainment.

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  • so does common core only apply to math then?
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  • vlagrl29 said:

    so does common core only apply to math then?

    There's also a language arts component. I don't have kids yet either, but the biggest objection I've heard so far is that math standards in high school have actually been lowered, at least in our state. Kids will have to double up at some point in high school if they want to get through calc (source: a mom friend that I trust). It also places a huge standardized test burden on teachers, who I'd like to see trusted to execute their profession without so much judgement and skepticism. Time for the arts and recess will likely see further cuts.

    One of my best friends has gotten really active in the anti-CC movement around here, and she said one entertaining aspect is that everyone in her group is either very liberal or very conservative. It's uniting the polar ends of the spectrum. I'm trying to learn more about it in my news reading time.
  • WulfgarWulfgar member
    500 Comments 100 Love Its Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    My brother is the Union leader at his school and tutors in math.  He loves the new way to teach math.  He says that it "helps people" to love math.  So far, all the reports that I have received by friends with school age children is that the "new" math sucks until the get into algebra.

    My brother hates the common core since it usually is tied to teacher performance.  Your students have to show a certain level of improvement from the beginning of the school year to the end of the school year in respect to not only themselves, but to all students.

    I have friends with a son that is very smart but has other issues.  They both agree that if any teacher tells their son that he doesn't pass when he gets the right answer using the old way they will have a serious talking to the teacher and the school.  She has two Masters in Engineering including Chemical Engineering and loves math.
  • Fortunately I was in a district that was delaying the implementation, and still hasn't implemented it. But I was a teacher, and common core sucks- all standardized lesson plans do. There is too much bias, it doesn't allow teachers to teach to their students interest, to teach to their strengths, to use creativity, etc. The last year I taught we had a computer based US history curriculum- literally the kids were supposed to use their laptops in class every day to complete an assignment. The only problem- they were boring as hell, some of them were WRONG, and they didn't promote critical thinking, allow for re-teaching if a student missed something, or allow for any creativity at all. I wasn't a teacher any more, I was a tech support person and it drove me crazy! Fortunately I was at a school where we didn't follow the lessons every day, but we still had to do several from the unit. Other schools in the district were required by their principals to use them every day, and still have to use these lessons.

    Now, having said all that, I don't believe a teacher should just be able to teach whatever they want- that's how you hear about students who took US history and never got past the Civil War, or whatever, but there has to be some common sense. Teachers aren't robots- and our differences are our strengths. Most teachers I know work hard to do what they need to for their students, but it's those teachers who are there just collecting a paycheck, or just there to coach, that are the reason that we have these stupid programs put into place. Oh, that and the fact that there is not much parental involvement, and student's no longer do much homework.

    Sorry if you read all that- hot topic for me, if you can't tell. And this is with me staying at home for the past year, and possibly not returning to teaching until DS is in K.
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  • ughhh, I'm not becoming a fan of this common core business.  Students shouldn't be judged on their stinking standardized test scores.

    I have a middle school violin student who is in 7th grade and I guess they were testing how using laptops for homework would go and she told me she was very frustrated because she would do her work on the laptop but then it would crash and loose it.  I honestly couldn't even imagine doing all homework on a computer, but I guess that's how it is these days.  I much prefer pencil and paper.
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  • maple2maple2 member
    Ninth Anniversary 500 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    vlagrl29 said:
    I don't understand the common core thing?  Is it a new thing?  I've heard people talk about it and that is why they are homeschooling.  Really it needs to be up to the parents I guess to teach their kids about finance, but if the parents suck at it then of course the kids will too.  Unless they are willing to teach themselves about it eventually.
    Here's the official Common Core website http://www.corestandards.org/.  It's basically a new set of educational standards for a wide variety of subjects that have been adopted by 44 states.  My understanding is that it was not developed by the federal government, but that there have been federal incentives for states to adopt it.

    As others have pointed out, there have been a lot of problems during the initial implementation stages.  I've read some defenses of Common Core saying that a lot of the problems people are using as examples are really the result of poor curriculum rather that Common Core itself.  For example, I don't think Common Core requires that all lessons be taught using a computer, but some districts are using curricula to teach to Common Core standards that do rely on computer based learning.  It seems like that would be pretty hard for the average parent to sort out, but I'm not surprised that there have been problems given how widespread the changes are.  I'm soon to get some personal experience with how it plays out for our kids, so I'll probably have a more informed opinion in the next couple of years.
  • My mom is a World Languages teacher, in a district currently implementing the Common Core. She says it has done more to prevent her from preparing and teaching her lessons than any other program in the past 35 years (close second to all the standardized testing associated with "no child left behind"). 

    People from the state come in and observe teaching for a day, give pages and pages of critical feedback, and expect to basically come back a week later and see a different teacher. the process involves self evaluations and peer evaluations among teachers and as basically added another 6-7 hours of "homework" to my mom's life each week (in addtion to all the tests, projects, and kid-homework that needs grading, lesson prep, etc.).  Don't public school teachers do enough? 
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  • Gdaisy09 said:

    My mom is a World Languages teacher, in a district currently implementing the Common Core. She says it has done more to prevent her from preparing and teaching her lessons than any other program in the past 35 years (close second to all the standardized testing associated with "no child left behind"). 


    People from the state come in and observe teaching for a day, give pages and pages of critical feedback, and expect to basically come back a week later and see a different teacher. the process involves self evaluations and peer evaluations among teachers and as basically added another 6-7 hours of "homework" to my mom's life each week (in addtion to all the tests, projects, and kid-homework that needs grading, lesson prep, etc.).  Don't public school teachers do enough? 
    It's infuriating. The whole thing boils down to disrespect for teachers. Any low test scores are immediately blamed on them instead of any other factor in children's lives. We trust other grad-level educated professionals to do their jobs, and we need to do the same with educators.
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