Discuss: Breastfeeding in a bar

RockABye · September 2014

Nutshell: this woman was breastfeeding in a bar, the bar closed her open tab and she's mad about it. Discuss.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26478792/mothers-bar-tab-cut-off-because-she-was-breastfeeding

caseyandlizzie · September 2014

Babies shouldn't be at a bar.

RockABye · September 2014

I side with the bar. First of all, I don't think a bar is an appropriate place for a newborn... drinking while bfing aside, there's also the smoke and potentially loud music or whatever to contend with. That's JMO though. I say if you want to go to a bar, get a sitter. I have no problem with public breastfeeding, but I think the bar was right to cut her off if she was going to bf while in there. Had she not been bfing, then it maybe a different story.

brij2006 · September 2014

I just Googled the place in the article and it is a Bar & Grill that is inside a mall, with a full kitchen menu. So I don't think it would be classified as a full on bar. http://bigwoodys.net/chesapeake/menu.php

Should a baby be in a bar that is specifically a bar? Not really.

Yet should a mom be chastised for her choice to drink while breastfeeding? No. There are actually studies that say how and when to drink alcohol while you are breastfeeding with no harm to the baby.

brij2006 · September 2014

Aghk! I'm trying to post an article but TN is not cooperating.

brij2006 · September 2014

Okay, it won't let me post the link to the article, so here's the whole thing. This is from lalecheleague.org

What about drinking alcohol and breastfeeding?

Women are often warned to not consume alcohol during pregnancy, as ample evidence has shown that it poses a severe and avoidable risk to her unborn baby. The risks of consuming alcohol while breastfeeding are not as well defined. Breastfeeding mothers receive conflicting advice about whether alcohol consumption can have an effect on their baby, which often leaves mothers feeling like they have more questions than answers. So, what information should a mother who is considering drinking while breastfeeding know?

La Leche League's The Womanly Art Of Breastfeeding (p. 328) says:

The effects of alcohol on the breastfeeding baby are directly related to the amount the mother ingests. When the breastfeeding mother drinks occasionally or limits her consumption to one drink or less per day, the amount of alcohol her baby receives has not been proven to be harmful.

La Leche League's The Breastfeeding Answer Book (pp. 597-598) says:

Alcohol passes freely into mother's milk and has been found to peak about 30 to 60 minutes after consumption, 60 to 90 minutes when taken with food. Alcohol also freely passes out of a mother's milk and her system. It takes a 120 pound woman about two to three hours to eliminate from her body the alcohol in one serving of beer or wine...the more alcohol that is consumed, the longer it takes for it to be eliminated. It takes up to 13 hours for a 120 pound woman to eliminate the alcohol from one high-alcohol drink. The effects of alcohol on the breastfeeding baby are directly related to the amount the mother consumes.

The American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Drugs considers alcohol compatible with breastfeeding. It lists possible side effects if consumed in large amounts, including: drowsiness, deep sleep, weakness, and abnormal weight gain in the infant, and the possiblity of decreased milk-ejection reflex in the mother. The drug transfer table is available athttp://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;108/3/776/T6 and the full text of The Transfer of Drugs and Other Chemicals Into Human Milk can be found athttp://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;108/3/776

Dr. Jack Newman, member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his handout "More Breastfeeding Myths":

Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers.

Thomas W. Hale, R.Ph. Ph.D., member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his book Medications and Mothers' Milk (12th ed.):

Significant amounts of alcohol are secreted into breastmilk although it is not considered harmful to the infant if the amount and duration are limited. The absolute amount of alcohol transferred into milk is generally low. Beer, but not ethanol, has been reported in a number of studies to stimulate prolactin levels and breastmilk production (1, 2, 3). Thus it is presumed that the polysaccharide from barley may be the prolactin-stimulating component of beer (4). Non-alcoholic beer is equally effective.
In a study of twelve breastfeeding mothers who ingested 0.3 g/kg of ethanol in orange juice (equivalent to 1 can of beer for the average-sized woman), the mean maximum concentration of ethanol in milk was 320 mg/L (5). This report suggests a 23% reduction (156 to 120 mL) in breastmilk production following ingestion of beer and an increase in milk odor as a function of ethanol content.
Excess levels may lead to drowsiness, deep sleep, weakness, and decreased linear growth in the infant. Maternal blood alcohol levels must attain 300 mg/dl before significant side effects are reported in the infant. Reduction of letdown is apparently dose-dependent and requires alcohol consumption of 1.5 to 1.9 gm/kg body weight (6). Other studies have suggested psychomotor delay in infants of moderate drinkers (2+ drinks daily). Avoid breastfeeding during and for 2 - 3 hours after drinking alcohol.
In an interesting study of the effect of alcohol on milk ingestion by infants, the rate of milk consumption by infants during the 4 hours immediately after exposure to alcohol (0.3 g/kg) in 12 mothers was significantly less (7). Compensatory increases in intake were then observed during the 8 - 16 hours after exposure when mothers refrained from drinking.
Adult metabolism of alcohol is approximately 1 ounce in 3 hours, so mothers who ingest alcohol in moderate amounts can generally return to breastfeeding as soon as they feel neurologically normal. Chronic or heavy consumers of alcohol should not breastfeed.
References:
1. Marks V, Wright JW. Endocrinological and metabolic effects of alcohol. Proc R Soc Med 1977; 70(5):337-344.
2. De Rosa G, Corsello SM, Rufilli MP, Della CS, Pasargiklian E. Prolactin secretion after beer. Lancet 1982; 2(8252):934.
3. Carolson HE, Wasser HL, Reidelberger RD. Beer-induced prolactin secretion: a clinical and laboratory study of the role of salsolinol. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1985; 60(4):673-677.
4. Koletzko B, Lehner F. Beer and breastfeeding. Adv Exp Med Biol 2000; 478:23-28.
5. Mennella JA, Beauchamp GK. The transfer of alcohol to human milk. Effects on flavor and the infant's behavior. N Engl J Med 1991; 325(14):981-985.
6. Cobo E. Effect of different doses of ethanol on the milk-ejecting reflex in lactating women. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1973; 115(6):817-821.
7. Mennella JA. Regulation of milk intake after exposure to alcohol in mothers' milk. Alcohol Clin Exp Res 2001; 25(4):590-593.

Important Considerations

Your baby's age
- A newborn has an immature liver, and will be more affected by alcohol
- Up until around 3 months of age, infants metabolize alcohol at about half the rate of adults
- An older baby can metabolize alcohol more quickly than a young infant
Your weight
- A person's size has an impact on how quickly they metabolize alcohol
- A heavier person can metabolize alcohol more quickly than a lighter person
Amount of alcohol
- The effect of alcohol on the baby is directly related to the amount of alcohol that is consumed
- The more alcohol consumed, the longer it takes to clear the mother's body
Will you be eating
- An alcoholic drink consumed with food decreases absorbtion

Can drinking an alcoholic beverage help me relax and stimulate milk production?

Alcohol consumption has not been shown to stimulate milk production. Studies have found that babies nurse more frequently, but consume less milk in the 3-4 hours after an alcoholic beverage is consumed.

Do I have to pump and dump after drinking an alcoholic beverage?

As alcohol leaves the bloodstream, it leaves the breastmilk. Since alcohol is not "trapped" in breastmilk (it returns to the bloodstream as mother's blood alcohol level declines), pumping and dumping will not remove it. Pumping and dumping, drinking a lot of water, resting, or drinking coffee will not speed up the rate of the elimination of alcohol from your body.

RockABye · September 2014

To clarify - I don't have a problem with women drinking while breastfeeding in general, but I don't think it's wise to drink WHILE you're breastfeeding in a public place, especially a bar.. as in, simultaneously.. drink in one hand, baby on the boob. I'm not arguing the choice to drink while breastfeeding in general (or even while pregnant to some degree), I just think the bar was right to close her tab while she was there in that moment, drinking and bfing. The bar has to protect themselves and honestly, if I saw a mother with a beer in one hand while feeding her baby, I'd probably give it a good long side eye.

ETA: If anyone wants to drink while breastfeeding while at home or somewhere more private/intimate, have at it. I think this particular woman should've thought about the ramifications of doing so in front of a bunch of strangers at a bar or grill or whatever.. It's not too far fetched to think a bar would frown upon that in their establishment.

brij2006 · September 2014

RockABye said:

To clarify - I don't have a problem with women drinking while breastfeeding in general, but I don't think it's wise to drink WHILE you're breastfeeding in a public place, especially a bar.. as in, simultaneously.. drink in one hand, baby on the boob. I'm not arguing the choice to drink while breastfeeding in general (or even while pregnant to some degree), I just think the bar was right to close her tab while she was there in that moment, drinking and bfing. The bar has to protect themselves and honestly, if I saw a mother with a beer in one hand while feeding her baby, I'd probably give it a good long side eye.

Completely agree with this. There are definitely studies out there that show no harm to baby for some alcohol consumption, but the mother also shouldn't be doing that in the public eye where a scene could be caused.

ILoveRedVino · September 2014

I don't judge nursing in public. I do judge bringing a baby to a bar.

BruinsBabe33 · September 2014

I'm with ILRV.

TudorRose11 · September 2014

While I would probably side eye this too, I used to work in restaurants. For a long time. And there is no law against serving a pregnant woman alcohol (at least in my state, I have exactly zero education about other states where this is concerned) and once had a visibly pregnant woman order a strawberry daiquiri while I was working. We had no reason to refuse service other than personal morals. Same concept, I guess.

It seems like a double edged sword. If it's legal to sit in that bar with a baby, it's her business what she orders and not for them to decide. But, it's their right to turn away any business they aren't morally comfortable with having in their establishment.

Basically, what I mean is, don't take your baby to a damn bar.

MRads · September 2014

I brought my baby to happy hours. And I have since he was 2 months. Judge away. And I wouldn't nurse and drink in public, but mostly because I wouldn't want others to judge me. And I would take offense if somebody cut me off of drinking because they were worried "about what is best for the baby."

But eh, we all judge things in life. I'm sure some will judge me and I know I've judged my fair share of things.

TudorRose11 · September 2014

I mean this.

poppies717 · September 2014

Didn't read the article, but I'm not in a good place to discuss this. Don't bring your baby to a bar. Agree with @ILoveRedVino (per usual).

KonaCoffeeBean · September 2014

Don't bring a baby to a seedy bar, but a bar and grill is different.

Aimothy · September 2014

I didn't read the article, but for me I think it depends what time the baby was in the bar? Happy hour? Eh, whatever. 9 pm or later? Get your god damn kid home for some quality sleep.

lindsayandjamie · September 2014

I read the article and don't think there is enough info to judge. What time of day? How loud? Smoke? Was it her first beer? How old was baby?

If she was only having one beer, at dinner time, and wasn't doing shots and slamming back vodkas, I don't see the big issue bring baby to a 'bar' although it sounds more like a restaurant.

BR
I have definitely had a drink while nursing simultaneously because I knew my breast milk would not have alcohol in it while I was consuming it and by the time it was go-time again, I would have processed it. It was always max 1 glass of wine and only once baby was about 4-5 months old. It wasn't at a bar or restaurant but that has more to do with my opposition to driving my child with even one drink in my system, and not about judgy eyes.

cinderin · September 2014

Here in Washington there is no smoking in a bar...

I think this sounds like a restaurant.

I think/know it's fine for someone to have one or two drinks and bf. Bf while drinking simultaneously is actually the best way to do it. The alcohol hits your blood stream while the baby is finishing up, and by the time the baby is ready to bf again, hour(s) have passed.

Venti29 · September 2014

It's not something I would do.
The tab that is, one drink.. Eh, opening a tab? No.

Discuss: Breastfeeding in a bar

Re: Discuss: Breastfeeding in a bar

Okay, it won't let me post the link to the article, so here's the whole thing. This is from lalecheleague.org

What about drinking alcohol and breastfeeding?

Important Considerations

Can drinking an alcoholic beverage help me relax and stimulate milk production?

Do I have to pump and dump after drinking an alcoholic beverage?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards

Discuss: Breastfeeding in a bar

Re: Discuss: Breastfeeding in a bar

Okay, it won't let me post the link to the article, so here's the whole thing. This is from lalecheleague.orgWhat about drinking alcohol and breastfeeding?

Important Considerations

Can drinking an alcoholic beverage help me relax and stimulate milk production?

Do I have to pump and dump after drinking an alcoholic beverage?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards

Okay, it won't let me post the link to the article, so here's the whole thing. This is from lalecheleague.org

What about drinking alcohol and breastfeeding?