Using Cards Internationally

bridejl · June 2015

H and I are going to Germany & Poland for 2 weeks in September and I called our card issuers for fee information. Can I ask you to review/critique these terms? Are these terms fair or should I be looking into other options (if so, what other options?).

Debit cards - 1% ISA fee per transaction, no other conversion or foreign transaction fees, $500 daily limit with PIN, $500 daily limit thru cash advance, $2500 limit when used as credit, works at the Cirrus and Pulse ATMs.

Credit cards - we both have cards issued through our banks (yes, I know we should get other rewards cards. A topic for a different day). Both charge a 2% fee for US currency transactions (I assume this wouldn't happen often internationally), and a 3% fee for foreign currency transactions.

We're planning on using mostly cash from ATMs using debit cards, and keeping credit cards on hand for emergencies only.

Thank you in advance, I'm feeling very unsure about coordinating this so your feedback is much appreciated!

Erikan73 · June 2015

My parents traveled to Germany on a regular basis as that is where our family is. What you are looking at is pretty standard. What my parents do to limit the fees is to withdraw the max you can whenever you go to an ATM. Try to pay cash for as much as you can. This reduces the fees you will have to pay. But you sound like you have a good plan in place. Just remember before leaving to call all the companies/banks to advise of out of the country travel & the dates so that they won't put a freeze on your accounts when they see foreign activity. Hope you have a great vacation!!

short+sassy · June 2015

Congrats on your vacation! It sounds amazing. It sounds like using your debit card and then paying with cash will be the best way to go.

I've also heard that when using a credit card for a foreign transaction, they will choose the worst conversion rate (for the consumer) listed on that day (or something like that) and are generally not the best way to pay for things.

With that said, I haven't traveled much internationally and I know others on the board will better be able to answer your question.

hoffse · June 2015

That's a bad exchange rate on the CC's. Virtually all credit cards charge a 1% fee in foreign currency - even the ones that claim they have no transaction fees charge the 1% - because that is what Visa or Mastercard will charge, and the banks issuing the cards have no control over it. You don't ever want to be paying more than 1% in conversion fees though.

Look for a card that says it has no foreign transaction fees. Capital One, Chase, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, etc. all have good cards for this.

The other thing to look for is a card with an EMV Chip and PIN associated with it. The vast majority of chipped cards in the US are chip and signature. Those almost always fail to work at automated kiosks in Europe (train stations, gas stations, etc.). If that happens, then you have to find a live person who can run your card through a separate machine. It's a pain in the butt, so try to get a chip and PIN card before you go.

Many places in Europe will still take cards with magnetic strips on them, but those are slowly but surely becoming obsolete, and you have a good chance of encountering clerks who don't know how to make the sales terminals accept them. Having a chip card will make your life a lot easier over there, and if you need to get a new chip card you might as well try to get one that has a PIN too.

Our chip and PIN card is through Pentagon Federal Credit Union. We have about a 50-60% success rate at automated kiosks, but it has always worked at manned stations. It usually defaults to chip and signature when at a manned station (but not always). Other cards with PIN capabilities can be obtains through Andrew's FCU and UNFCU.

Europe tends to be more cash-friendly than the US, so definitely bring a debit card and carry cash with you (safely! The pickpockets are horrible over there). Your debit cards can have magnetic strips on them and will be nearly universally accepted, unlike credit cards. Again, you want a card that doesn't charge a conversion fee (over the 1% Visa will charge) and you don't want your home bank imposing fees either. We use our Fidelity debit card for this. Fidelity will reimburse us for ATM fees worldwide, and they don't charge an extra conversion fee. We bring the Wells Fargo card as a back up, but we try not to use it. They have a much lower withdrawal limit than Fidelity and they charge a flat $5 per foreign transaction plus a 3% conversion every time we use it. That can add up fast. We bring it with us and keep it in the hotel safe for use only if our other card gets lost or stolen.

hoffse · June 2015

Sorry, I will add that $500/day for ATM withdrawals should be fine, but it's kind of low. Still - if that's the biggest restriction on your debit card that's not so bad, as long as there aren't other fees being imposed.

I would definitely be looking at a new CC though, even if it's just for this trip. That conversion fee will add up quickly.

I struggle with the cash vs. card thing over there. Pickpockets are pretty aggressive, but cash is king. I try to keep at least 50-100E on us at all times so that we can cover any meal or transport situation we might run into if our cards don't work. That strategy has saved us more than once. Carrying any more than that can be risky. I have been personally targeted for pickpockets more than once (I'm a strawberry blonde and look very American), but thankfully those attempts have never been successful.

hoffse · June 2015

By the way, are you watching what is happening with Greece? We're going to France at the end of July, and I'm thinking we're going to see a nice dip in the exchange rate right before we leave...

If you decide to go primarily with cash, please invest in a Pacsafe bag (or something like it) to keep valuables safe. I swear I'm not being paranoid - the surest way to ruin a vacation is by having your cash and cards stolen.

And absolutely, positively, do NOT let your H carry a wallet in his back pocket. It will be gone and he won't even know it until the next time he has to pay for something.

brij2006 · June 2015

Definitely use the debit card. You can also ask your bank to increase the limit due to you traveling out of the country.

Otherwise, I would bring quite a bit of cash along when you fly there as well. Separate it out between yourself, your H, and both of your bags. Stuff it in a shoe, rolled up in a sock, or fold a bra in half and put it inbetween the cups. Just to make it inconspicuous if you were to have your bag searched. Also, inside an envelope within there.

I would just toss the credit cards in for backup, but be sure to let them know you're traveling and when.

hoffse · June 2015

I think it's smart to land with some cash, but you won't get a good rate here. We usually buy about 100E to carry with us and then withdraw more (if needed) at the airport or wherever. Europe has ATMs all over the place.

cbee817 · June 2015

We have capital one cards that we use when we're in Canada (we live about 20 minutes away from the border)- no foreign transaction fee and we get 1.5% cash back.

bridejl · June 2015

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I agree that the $500/day limit is low, but I really don't foresee us spending $500/day, so if we have to take a trip to the ATM every couple days, so be it. But I'm glad the 1% is a good rate.

I definitely need to look into a credit card with no foreign transaction fees. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to apply/be approved/receive the new card since we're down to 2 months til take off. To be honest, time is going fast and it's making me nervous. It's also interesting that credit card technology differs so much between Europe and the US. I don't remember hearing about the new technology when I studied abroad, but then that was 6 years ago already.

@hoffse Excuse my lack of economics knowledge - are the happenings in Greece & with the Euro good for the exchange rate with USD? I assume since the Euro is weakening that it's in our favor?

short+sassy · June 2015

@bridejl, the cc chips were talked about in a thread back awhile ago, though I don't remember which one. The chips greatly reduce fraud and it is really pretty pathetic we don't have them in this country already. We are lagging way behind Europe on this. I'm not sure about six years ago, but it was already pretty common place in EU four years ago. I got the impression it happened almost all at once, once the technology was available.

Some of the push back is for the benefit of the extra security of the chip to work, stores/vendors will need to update their cc machines and few of them have done that. Though Walmart is one! And since most machines don't use the chip part of the technology, cc companies has put off the expensive of adding these chips to their cards.

My AMEX card has one. It works fine everywhere I go. But if I use it at a store with an updated machine/system...like Walmart...the card needs to be inserted into the machine differently. There is a little slot at the bottom of the machine, instead of sliding it on the side.

hoffse · June 2015

bridejl said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I agree that the $500/day limit is low, but I really don't foresee us spending $500/day, so if we have to take a trip to the ATM every couple days, so be it. But I'm glad the 1% is a good rate.

I definitely need to look into a credit card with no foreign transaction fees. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to apply/be approved/receive the new card since we're down to 2 months til take off. To be honest, time is going fast and it's making me nervous. It's also interesting that credit card technology differs so much between Europe and the US. I don't remember hearing about the new technology when I studied abroad, but then that was 6 years ago already.

@hoffse Excuse my lack of economics knowledge - are the happenings in Greece & with the Euro good for the exchange rate with USD? I assume since the Euro is weakening that it's in our favor?

STUCK IN BOX

If you apply/are approved for a card, you will probably physically have it in 7-10 days. It's a pretty fast process. They want you to spend! I would use it for gas or something before you go so the CC company has a record of you using it. Then call and tell them you are leaving for a trip a few weeks before you go and all should be fine. They'll set alerts on your card so that it doesn't get shut down for fraudulent activity while you are over there.

Short+sassy is correct that the US lags behind the rest of the world in CC technology. It's a pretty expensive thing to implement when you think of how many merchants and CC holders are out there in the US, but the security is much better. Having a chipped CC with a PIN is another layer of security. For those cards, nobody can use them at physical locations without the PIN and many of them also have online verification steps to avoid unauthorized internet transactions with stolen cards. By the end of the year the chip and signature card should be pretty common in the US. I spoke with a lady at Chase today about this very issue because we are renting a car and will need to buy gas in France. She thinks chip and PIN cards will be rolled out widely in the US within the next couple of years. Until then we're stuck with chip and signature for the most part - which is fine, until you need gas in rural France! Oh well, it will be an adventure...

I have a feeling that by the time we get chip and PIN widely used in the US, the rest of the world will have moved on to the next greatest thing.

No worries about the economics of it, but yes the Greek default is probably going to bring the price of the euro down relative to the dollar. On Friday it cost $1.13 to buy 1 euro. Today the markets closed at $1.11 to buy 1 euro. I think we're going to see a bit of a downward slide as the repurcussions of the default start to hit the markets. There are lots of people trying to figure out what's going to happen, but at least a few "experts" are predicting that we will reach parity by the end of the year and the dollar might finally be stronger than the euro sometime in 2016. Regardless, it's much cheaper for us to travel there this year than it was this time last year! The euro has dropped something like 20% in the last 12 months. That's a lot of money saved for the American traveler!

als1982 · July 2015

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number.

Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

hoffse · July 2015

als1982 said:

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number. Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

The chips are harder to skim than magnetic strips, so that increases security a little bit.

Most american "chip and PIN" cards actually default to chip and signature at points of sale. The PIN is supposedly in place for those times when a signature won't work (like automated machines). But yeah, our chip and PIN card does the same thing - we almost always have to sign for it. We have only entered the PIN a handful of times. Defaulting to chip and signature makes American cards less secure than our European friends whose CC's default to requiring a PIN.

I carry a cross-body bag that has a locked zipper to make it hard to open. It's not stylish, but it works! Nobody has managed to steal from me over there, even though I have caught strangers with their hands down my back pocket before... I've also been followed by "pregnant" women and "starving" children (who miraculously weren't pregnant or starving the next time I saw them) demanding that I go to an ATM to give them money - they got extremely aggressive, I suspect in an effort to get close to my bag.

Where do you buy your currency? I have found the rates here to be so high that we typically only bring 100E with us, and then we just withdraw more after we land if we need it.

Xstatic3333 · July 2015

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number.

Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

The chips are harder to skim than magnetic strips, so that increases security a little bit.

Most american "chip and PIN" cards actually default to chip and signature at points of sale. The PIN is supposedly in place for those times when a signature won't work (like automated machines). But yeah, our chip and PIN card does the same thing - we almost always have to sign for it. We have only entered the PIN a handful of times. Defaulting to chip and signature makes American cards less secure than our European friends whose CC's default to requiring a PIN.

I carry a cross-body bag that has a locked zipper to make it hard to open. It's not stylish, but it works! Nobody has managed to steal from me over there, even though I have caught strangers with their hands down my back pocket before... I've also been followed by "pregnant" women and "starving" children (who miraculously weren't pregnant or starving the next time I saw them) demanding that I go to an ATM to give them money - they got extremely aggressive, I suspect in an effort to get close to my bag.

Where do you buy your currency? I have found the rates here to be so high that we typically only bring 100E with us, and then we just withdraw more after we land if we need it.

Somewhat related to the theft issue, I saw this product on Shark Tank the other day:

http://boobypack.com/products/the-stephania

I hate the name, the price, and most of the colors but it's an interesting idea for a way to keep some cash and ID safe while traveling.

als1982 · July 2015

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number.

Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

The chips are harder to skim than magnetic strips, so that increases security a little bit.

Most american "chip and PIN" cards actually default to chip and signature at points of sale. The PIN is supposedly in place for those times when a signature won't work (like automated machines). But yeah, our chip and PIN card does the same thing - we almost always have to sign for it. We have only entered the PIN a handful of times. Defaulting to chip and signature makes American cards less secure than our European friends whose CC's default to requiring a PIN.

I carry a cross-body bag that has a locked zipper to make it hard to open. It's not stylish, but it works! Nobody has managed to steal from me over there, even though I have caught strangers with their hands down my back pocket before... I've also been followed by "pregnant" women and "starving" children (who miraculously weren't pregnant or starving the next time I saw them) demanding that I go to an ATM to give them money - they got extremely aggressive, I suspect in an effort to get close to my bag.

Where do you buy your currency? I have found the rates here to be so high that we typically only bring 100E with us, and then we just withdraw more after we land if we need it.

We just purchase through one of our banks, finding out which has the best exchange rate. There's typcially no fee unless it's an unusual currency and they have to order it from a larger bank.

short+sassy · July 2015

Xstatic3333 said:

als1982 said:

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number. Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

The chips are harder to skim than magnetic strips, so that increases security a little bit.

Most american "chip and PIN" cards actually default to chip and signature at points of sale. The PIN is supposedly in place for those times when a signature won't work (like automated machines). But yeah, our chip and PIN card does the same thing - we almost always have to sign for it. We have only entered the PIN a handful of times. Defaulting to chip and signature makes American cards less secure than our European friends whose CC's default to requiring a PIN.

I carry a cross-body bag that has a locked zipper to make it hard to open. It's not stylish, but it works! Nobody has managed to steal from me over there, even though I have caught strangers with their hands down my back pocket before... I've also been followed by "pregnant" women and "starving" children (who miraculously weren't pregnant or starving the next time I saw them) demanding that I go to an ATM to give them money - they got extremely aggressive, I suspect in an effort to get close to my bag.

Where do you buy your currency? I have found the rates here to be so high that we typically only bring 100E with us, and then we just withdraw more after we land if we need it.
Somewhat related to the theft issue, I saw this product on Shark Tank the other day: http://boobypack.com/products/the-stephania I hate the name, the price, and most of the colors but it's an interesting idea for a way to keep some cash and ID safe while traveling.

What? You don't like the American flag styled one ? I'm as patriotic as the next person, but "flag" themed clothing is a pet peeve of mine. I know people don't mean it this way, but I think it's disrespectful.

I actually really like the idea! But, yeah, what's with that price? How does adding a few pockets turn a $15 tank bra into a $60 one? They need to combine their idea with the bra that also holds the liquid of an entire bottle of wine and has a handy small straw that pops up, lol.

Xstatic3333 · July 2015

short+sassy said:

Xstatic3333 said:

hoffse said:

als1982 said:

All of our cards and pin and chip, but am curious as to how they reduce fraud since we have never once been asked to enter a PIN number.

Also, we buy and carry currency ahead of time, but typically only about $500 per currency and then split that with each of us carrying half on our person during travel. Upon arrival we put it in the hotel safe and divvy out daily as needed. We're cautious, I typically carry a bag with double zips instead of a purse, and have any never had any issues with theft. One issue we have had with cash is that many currency exchanges will only take bills and not coins from other countries, so we've ended up with a lot of random coinage.

The chips are harder to skim than magnetic strips, so that increases security a little bit.

Most american "chip and PIN" cards actually default to chip and signature at points of sale. The PIN is supposedly in place for those times when a signature won't work (like automated machines). But yeah, our chip and PIN card does the same thing - we almost always have to sign for it. We have only entered the PIN a handful of times. Defaulting to chip and signature makes American cards less secure than our European friends whose CC's default to requiring a PIN.

I carry a cross-body bag that has a locked zipper to make it hard to open. It's not stylish, but it works! Nobody has managed to steal from me over there, even though I have caught strangers with their hands down my back pocket before... I've also been followed by "pregnant" women and "starving" children (who miraculously weren't pregnant or starving the next time I saw them) demanding that I go to an ATM to give them money - they got extremely aggressive, I suspect in an effort to get close to my bag.

Where do you buy your currency? I have found the rates here to be so high that we typically only bring 100E with us, and then we just withdraw more after we land if we need it.
Somewhat related to the theft issue, I saw this product on Shark Tank the other day:

http://boobypack.com/products/the-stephania

I hate the name, the price, and most of the colors but it's an interesting idea for a way to keep some cash and ID safe while traveling.

What? You don't like the American flag styled one ? I'm as patriotic as the next person, but "flag" themed clothing is a pet peeve of mine. I know people don't mean it this way, but I think it's disrespectful.

I actually really like the idea! But, yeah, what's with that price? How does adding a few pockets turn a $15 tank bra into a $60 one? They need to combine their idea with the bra that also holds the liquid of an entire bottle of wine and has a handy small straw that pops up, lol.

I'm pretty sure that's actually a thing that exists! I think I saw it on Groupon. Also, I'm with you on the flag-clothing. Never sat right with me, though I'm all for other red white and blue patterns and have my nail art for the weekend ready to go :-)

If I did ever buy one of those (on sale?) I'd want a neutral I could wear under t-shirts, which doesn't seem to exist.

hoffse · July 2015

H has one of these, which works pretty great:

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Blocker-Hidden-Pocket/dp/B00BYFAIH0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1435772803&sr=8-3&keywords=hidden+pocket&pebp=1435772810471&perid=01QZM0FHAFG34VSE4V4K

Hopefully not TMI, but he loops it through his belt and then wears it between his pants and boxers near his front pocket. He carries our back-up cash and passports in there, and then we just take out what we need in small amounts a few times a day. It works great, and he says he doesn't really feel it.

Xstatic3333 · July 2015

hoffse said:

H has one of these, which works pretty great:

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Blocker-Hidden-Pocket/dp/B00BYFAIH0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1435772803&sr=8-3&keywords=hidden+pocket&pebp=1435772810471&perid=01QZM0FHAFG34VSE4V4K

Hopefully not TMI, but he loops it through his belt and then wears it between his pants and boxers near his front pocket. He carries our back-up cash and passports in there, and then we just take out what we need in small amounts a few times a day. It works great, and he says he doesn't really feel it.

I like that! I'll have to remember it for the next time we travel.

bridejl · July 2015

hoffse said:

H has one of these, which works pretty great:

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Blocker-Hidden-Pocket/dp/B00BYFAIH0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1435772803&sr=8-3&keywords=hidden+pocket&pebp=1435772810471&perid=01QZM0FHAFG34VSE4V4K

Hopefully not TMI, but he loops it through his belt and then wears it between his pants and boxers near his front pocket. He carries our back-up cash and passports in there, and then we just take out what we need in small amounts a few times a day. It works great, and he says he doesn't really feel it.

Thanks for the recommendation! You read my mind - what your husband carries was my next question!

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