MM Win - firm retreat to California

hoffse · August 2015

Had to share for the travel/points hackers who will appreciate this one.

My firm is having a retreat in Los Angeles next April. Don't ask me why, because they're having to fly about 400 people out there, but whatever. I'm not a partner and nobody asked me. It's going to be at a beautiful resort on the Pacific, and H and I figured we would take full advantage since the firm is covering resort fees, food, and flights for attorneys/staff.

Spouses can come and obviously can stay in the room and participate in events covered by the firm. But flights for spouses out there are on your own dime.

To complicate this, H's grandma is in San Francisco, and I have a lot of family in San Fran as well. We really can't go to California and not see them.

So instead of using the firm's travel agent, I got clearance to just book flights myself and get reimbursed for my flights since we really needed to fly open-jaw, and the cost to do that is negligible. So we're flying to Los Angeles, me on a paid/reimbursed ticket and H on points. Then we're flying to San Fran, both on points, to see family. Then we're flying home with me on a paid/reimbursed ticket and H on points. When I turned in my flights for reimbursement they actually complimented me on how much money I saved the firm because apparently it was way less than what the travel agent told them it was going to cost. I was like.... I booked the exact same flight everybody else is taking (so we can use the firm's shuttle to get to and from the resort). I just paid the price on the internet. No special rate or anything. Whatever, once again nobody asked me about the wisdom of using a travel agent.

So total out of pocket cost so far - with fees and early check-in added because I can't stand SW cattle-call boarding: $74. Plus we're getting CC and SW points back from my paid flights.

We'll stay with family in San Francisco and rent a car while we're up there. I'm thinking this whole thing is going to be under $500 for 6 days - including car rental, insurance, food, etc.

I'll take it!

Also, note to self: If I'm ever a partner, vote AGAINST using a travel agent for firm retreats. Seriously, I couldn't believe how excited they were when they saw the bill. Actually, vote against firm retreats that require flights in the first place. Historically they've picked a location where everybody can drive, but for whatever reason the powers-that-be decided it was a great idea to put every. single. person. on an airplane to get there this time.

jessica490 · August 2015

that is great!

I love Cali, I would pack up and move there in a heartbeat. My aunt and uncle live very close to LAX. I think we may go there next spring as well so you can just book me on your ticket

AprilZ81 · August 2015

In defense of your firm using a travel agency...

I used to work for a travel agency that specialized in corporate travel (not vacations). When you have a group booking the travel agency has the ability to put a special code into the reservation that allows the agency to pull reports based on a variety of criteria.

These reports can help the meeting planner know what flights attendees are arriving on (to schedule ground transportation or to track flight delays), track flight changes, cost, connections and the list goes on. If everyone books on their own the ability to run reports is gone, everything would be a manual process.

The agency I worked for had contract with clients and some clients had special rate agreements with the airlines. We offered the lowest available airfare and then the client was billed a per transaction rate on the back end according to the contract.

Trying to track 400 attendees (plus spouses) would be a nightmare without a travel agent in my mind (and I've done it both ways for meetings I've planned). The bottom line may not be as attractive but the increased ability to run reports, get accurate flight information and have one point of contact for issues is worth the premium price for a lot of corporate clients.

Just a little insight onto the other side of your situation.

I'm glad they allowed you to deviate and take the trip to see family while you are on the West Coast! Enjoy your trip!

short+sassy · August 2015

Congrats! What a great opportunity to take a little bit of vacation and visit friends and family on the cheap.

I used to work for a big defense contractor and we had employees flying to the Naval base on Oahu all the time...alas not me, lol. That company worked the same way. If employees wanted to stay a few extra days...not a problem...they just had to pay for their own hotel/car rental on those days. One employee flew his wife over while he was there. He had to pay for her flight, of course, but their hotel/rental car was already paid for by the company.

I grew up in a little beach town called San Clemente. It is the southern most city in Orange County, CA. Gorgeous and perfect weather all year round! But after I graduated from college, I decided that if I wanted to afford to live in an apartment without a roommate before the age of 30, I needed to move elsewhere, lol. @hoffse, if you are going to be staying anywhere in that vicinity, let me know and I'll clue you in to some of the good locals spots.

simplyelise · August 2015

Nice work!

I'm actually in charge of most of the travel booking for our organization and I cannot imagine the headache of arranging 400 tickets. I guess you just call the airline directly? I do not at all understand the decision making of some conference/retreat planners. Yeah, Breckenridge may be amazing, but Denver has an actual airport, so why can't we just do that?

The fun of travel arranging where we are is making a choice between local regional airport (flights only to Dallas or Chicago) or the internationals in Kansas City or St. Louis. I end up with a Travelocity tab for three cities and a southwest tab for 2 cities before I make selections.

hoffse · August 2015

Yeah, fair point. The logistics of herding that many people is a challenge, and I suppose it does make sense to pay more if it means they can track people.

Honestly, the fact that it's in California in the first place is the real fail here. I mean, I'm salaried so I'm more than happy to go, but objectively... this has to be costing a crapton of money, and every bit of it is coming out of profits that the partners would otherwise take home.

If I was a partner, I'd be really unhappy with this choice. Atlanta was also on the table, and that's driveable for about 85% of the firm.

One wrinkle that I don't think they were expecting... they chose a week that happens to fall over spring break for all the schools in my city. So most of the attorneys in this office are going for an entire week (the retreat itself is a Thurs-Sun), they are bringing the kids, and they've gotten clearance to be reimbursed as well. So you have one group being booked through the travel agent and another group doing their own thing because Disneyland, and suddenly it's a logistical nightmare.

Oh and the London office apparently has to fly in a day early because of the time zone thing.

And they are chartering planes from the home office because - believe it or not - there's not an airport nearby that flies to LAX. That office has about 150 out of the 400 people going.

So yeah, I can see why they needed a travel agent. That was probably an unfair criticism.

But the location choice to begin with.... Cluster. I feel really bad for the marketing people. For some reason they got handed the task of coordinating this.

lbonga1 · August 2015

@hoffse that's pretty crazy that they decided to put that many people on a plane, but hey, I wouldn't complain! Have fun on your trip!

@short+sassy I'm actually going to a friend's going away party at Pizza Port in San Clemente tonight. We're trying to figure out where we want to move, but unfortunately since I work in technology, the best place for me (the bay area) is going to be even more expensive. Ugh.

hoffse · August 2015

simplyelise said:

Nice work!

I'm actually in charge of most of the travel booking for our organization and I cannot imagine the headache of arranging 400 tickets. I guess you just call the airline directly? I do not at all understand the decision making of some conference/retreat planners. Yeah, Breckenridge may be amazing, but Denver has an actual airport, so why can't we just do that?

The fun of travel arranging where we are is making a choice between local regional airport (flights only to Dallas or Chicago) or the internationals in Kansas City or St. Louis. I end up with a Travelocity tab for three cities and a southwest tab for 2 cities before I make selections.

Yes, exactly.

I think what happened is some of the higher-up partners were like, "Let's go to California!" and everybody voted yes and then handed it to the marketing people to figure out.

Heck, I'm going to enjoy it. It should be fabulous. I just really don't understand it.

AprilZ81 · August 2015

hoffse said:

Yeah, fair point. The logistics of herding that many people is a challenge, and I suppose it does make sense to pay more if it means they can track people.

Honestly, the fact that it's in California in the first place is the real fail here. I mean, I'm salaried so I'm more than happy to go, but objectively... this has to be costing a crapton of money, and every bit of it is coming out of profits that the partners would otherwise take home.

If I was a partner, I'd be really unhappy with this choice. Atlanta was also on the table, and that's driveable for about 85% of the firm.

One wrinkle that I don't think they were expecting... they chose a week that happens to fall over spring break for all the schools in my city. So most of the attorneys in this office are going for an entire week (the retreat itself is a Thurs-Sun), they are bringing the kids, and they've gotten clearance to be reimbursed as well. So you have one group being booked through the travel agent and another group doing their own thing because Disneyland, and suddenly it's a logistical nightmare.

Oh and the London office apparently has to fly in a day early because of the time zone thing.

And they are chartering planes from the home office because - believe it or not - there's not an airport nearby that flies to LAX. That office has about 150 out of the 400 people going.

So yeah, I can see why they needed a travel agent. That was probably an unfair criticism.

But the location choice to begin with.... Cluster. I feel really bad for the marketing people. For some reason they got handed the task of coordinating this.

Out of curiosity, who is planning this meeting? Do they have a legit meeting planner or is it just a bunch of people with little/no experience with meeting planning trying to do the best they can?

In my experience (again, I'm a meeting planner) the destination meetings are great for large scale meetings where people are coming in from all over the country/world. They rotate the location every year for variety and that works great. If the vast majority of the attendees are in Alabama, then why don't they go to Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta or even Orlando? So many other locations that would likely be less expensive to get to, not to mention requiring less travel time.

Chartering flights is a valid option, but that makes me nervous from a business continuity standpoint. If something happens to the plane then all of a sudden 100+ individuals all from the same company are in danger. A lot of companies have very strict rules about how many employees (especially at the executive level) can be on a plane at the same time. For example the CEO can't be on the jet with more than one other senior executive or no more than 3 senior managers of the same division can be on the same flight.

hoffse · August 2015

For the folks who have done this on the travel agency/planning side - why was the flight I found apparently so much cheaper?

I booked directly with the airline, and it wasn't any special sale. I had been checking prices for awhile before doing it.

If I'm being totally honest, the travel agent thing kind of burned me because they wanted our spouses to book through the TA also. But they wouldn't tell us what it was going to cost, we just had to "commit" and they would take the actual cost out of our paychecks at some unknown point in the future. I see now why they wanted everybody to go through the TA for tracking purposes. That makes sense. But not telling us what it was going to cost didn't sit well with me. We had points, so it didn't make sense for us to use the TA regardless of the cost, but not giving us the rate upfront just seemed kind of weird and haphazard. Is that normal too?

Honestly, I've never taken a big corporate trip before, so I'm a newbie to all this.

hoffse · August 2015

Most of the attendees are in Mississippi, Alabama, and Tennessee. Those three states house our 4 largest offices. We have another 15 or so offices with far fewer people in other parts of the country, and one in London.

They did New Orleans for the last retreat, and that made all sorts of sense. It was driveable for most people, and they have a real airport for those who need to fly. Atlanta or Nashville would have been driveable as well for this retreat, and again - real airports (especially Atlanta).

I really think there was a "where do I want to vacation?" aspect to it - there was some committee of partners who chose the location. They also mentioned going to the Bahamas until - so the story goes - somebody pointed out it's a different country and maybe not everybody had passports.

Yeah, I don't know. When they announced California I was both excited and completely baffled.

AprilZ81 · August 2015

hoffse said:

For the folks who have done this on the travel agency/planning side - why was the flight I found apparently so much cheaper?

I booked directly with the airline, and it wasn't any special sale. I had been checking prices for awhile before doing it.

If I'm being totally honest, the travel agent thing kind of burned me because they wanted our spouses to book through the TA also. But they wouldn't tell us what it was going to cost, we just had to "commit" and they would take the actual cost out of our paychecks at some unknown point in the future. I see now why they wanted everybody to go through the TA for tracking purposes. That makes sense. But not telling us what it was going to cost didn't sit well with me. We had points, so it didn't make sense for us to use the TA regardless of the cost, but not giving us the rate upfront just seemed kind of weird and haphazard. Is that normal too?

Honestly, I've never taken a big corporate trip before, so I'm a newbie to all this.

Bolded #1: This is really hard to say because I don't know what agency your firm is using and what their fee structure is. Sometimes the agency fees (not the airline fees) are added to the price of the ticket up front so it makes it look like the ticket is more expensive. There are also different classes of ticket (not just coach and business, but different categories within coach) and that could cause a fare difference. Different city pairs (open jaw tickets) can come with different fees that all contribute to different prices. It could be as simple as the airline sells the tickets a little cheaper because they don't have to pay the travel agency a commission.

Bolded #2: This is REALLY strange. In my experience when a group books travel with an agency the traveler calls in and says "Hey, I'm going to X meeting on X dates and I need to book a flight" The travel agent then looks at the meeting requirements (attendees need to land on X date at X airport before 4:00 pm) and then offers flights and pricing that fits the requirements. Obviously prices are subject to change if the ticket isn't booked immediately, but they should have been able to give you an exact cost that would have been able to be held for at least 24 hours.

short+sassy · August 2015

AprilZ81 said:

hoffse said:

For the folks who have done this on the travel agency/planning side - why was the flight I found apparently so much cheaper?

I booked directly with the airline, and it wasn't any special sale. I had been checking prices for awhile before doing it.

If I'm being totally honest, the travel agent thing kind of burned me because they wanted our spouses to book through the TA also. But they wouldn't tell us what it was going to cost, we just had to "commit" and they would take the actual cost out of our paychecks at some unknown point in the future. I see now why they wanted everybody to go through the TA for tracking purposes. That makes sense. But not telling us what it was going to cost didn't sit well with me. We had points, so it didn't make sense for us to use the TA regardless of the cost, but not giving us the rate upfront just seemed kind of weird and haphazard. Is that normal too?

Honestly, I've never taken a big corporate trip before, so I'm a newbie to all this.

Bolded #1: This is really hard to say because I don't know what agency your firm is using and what their fee structure is. Sometimes the agency fees (not the airline fees) are added to the price of the ticket up front so it makes it look like the ticket is more expensive. There are also different classes of ticket (not just coach and business, but different categories within coach) and that could cause a fare difference. Different city pairs (open jaw tickets) can come with different fees that all contribute to different prices. It could be as simple as the airline sells the tickets a little cheaper because they don't have to pay the travel agency a commission.

Bolded #2: This is REALLY strange. In my experience when a group books travel with an agency the traveler calls in and says "Hey, I'm going to X meeting on X dates and I need to book a flight" The travel agent then looks at the meeting requirements (attendees need to land on X date at X airport before 4:00 pm) and then offers flights and pricing that fits the requirements. Obviously prices are subject to change if the ticket isn't booked immediately, but they should have been able to give you an exact cost that would have been able to be held for at least 24 hours.

I agree. In my last job, I booked travel all the time using our corporate travel agency and the fares for each flight choice were clearly state. I mean, if nothing else, give a ballpark and then e-mail the final ticket cost with 24 hours to either say yeah or nay on booking the flight. But then I also think its weird the company even wanted to book flights for SOs. I've never worked anywhere that would have allowed that.

@lbonga1...oh, Pizza Port! Making me miss home . I agree about the bay area. There's a lot to be said for it, but I still like So. Cal. better. It's a bummer to face moving there PLUS it will be more expensive, but we (general we) gotta go where the jobs are.

dragonstarjk · August 2015

Woohoo! I love traveling to Cali--on the company dime makes it even better! A few years back, H had a work conference to attend in Palm Springs. We paid for my plane ticket to go with him, and since I was working at a hotel chain at the time, got the company a really good deal on hotel rooms for him/us and his coworker. They were so pleased that they paid for our rental car the entire week we stayed extra to visit Disneyland

formerlyGDaisy09 · August 2015

nice work! I'm hoping to attend a conference in San Diego in the spring and bring H and LO along (again at only the cost of H's and LO's(?) plane tickets). We might stay one or two extra days and have to pay hotel for those days, but it will be a way cheaper mini-vacation than if we had to front the whole cost ourselves.

jtmh2012 · August 2015

While I know the expense annoys you, be lucky they're doing it. None of the companies I've worked for have ever done anything like that. They don't even like taking us out locally as a reward for a job well done.

I'm heading out to LA in November with the 1yr old. Trying to plan stuff on the cheap isn't easy. Would be easier if I was going on my own.

MM Win - firm retreat to California

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