Trump's Taxes

MommyLiberty5013 · October 2016

So you all know I dislike him and won't vote for him, so I have no horse in this race. But I do think we need to clarify something...

Businesses only pay taxes on profits, not losses. So, if Trump has a business (or more than one) that had losses for the year, he'd pay no taxes on it. The tax code is written that way to not penalize a business owner who is trying to make it work (if businesses work, it's generally better for the overall economy and helps more people). It would stink for a business owner to take a loss in the year and on top of that get hit with a big tax bill. So the code eliminates the latter. For a guy like Trump, it might be a drop in the bucket, but imagine if a small mom and pop shop got a double hit in a year.

I'm pretty sure this is accurate. But, please by all means fact check me and correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe there are various levels too based on sizes of businesses. I don't know. But I do know that if this is accurate then we need to set the facts straight for others.

MommyLiberty5013 · October 2016

So if he didn't pay hundreds of thousands in taxes, and my PP is correct, that means he A. sucks as a business man and/or B. it was a rough economy.

smerka · October 2016

Those tax returns that were published were his personal returns. Because Trumps business is a commercial real estate guy, there are special tax rules that apply to him and his peers. He likely took advantage of those.

MommyLiberty5013 · October 2016

Thanks for clarifying. I did not realize it was personal ones. Like I said, I do not like him so I have not been following his "news" too much.

Beyond that, though, if someone offered me the loopholes for my personal taxes, I would likely take advantage of them. I wager a guess that as long as it is legal, every smart MMer here would too. Right?

People are just mad at him because he is a jerk and this seems to add to his jerkiness. But, I do not think he is wrong for doing it.

smerka · October 2016

My problem is that he claims to be 'the best' and always 'winning'. But a 900,000,000 loss is one year kind of disqualifies you from the 'best' category. He also likes to rag on the 47% that don't pay federal income taxes calling them freeloaders and lazy. But he does the same thing.

julieanne912 · October 2016

His comment about how he's "smart" because he doesn't pay any taxes just comes across as completely arrogant. Sure, he (or the people who handle this stuff for him) are hypothetically "smart" for taking advantage of all of the available loopholes. But, as I already mentioned in the other thread where we discussed this, his attitude is the problem.

brij2006 · October 2016

MommyLiberty5013 said:

Thanks for clarifying. I did not realize it was personal ones. Like I said, I do not like him so I have not been following his "news" too much.

Beyond that, though, if someone offered me the loopholes for my personal taxes, I would likely take advantage of them. I wager a guess that as long as it is legal, every smart MMer here would too. Right?

People are just mad at him because he is a jerk and this seems to add to his jerkiness. But, I do not think he is wrong for doing it.

This is exactly where I stand on it.
People are ripping into him about not paying taxes, but we all take the advantages we can, so what makes it any different for him to do so?

Granted his arrogance on how he said he was "smart" for not paying taxes, didn't really help his case. Poor choice of words on his part. Surprise!

LillibetteV · October 2016

My understanding is that he has constructed his empire in such a non-traditional way that all of the "business" assets are really his personal assets - hence why it was his personal tax return. I definitely need to read more one it though.

Although no matter the answer I think he's complete scum and I'm scared for our country that he even made it this far. Although some previous boards have made it clear I'm one of the lone liberals on this board I like that we can all still keep the few political debates that come up civil.

smerka · October 2016

You aren't the lone liberal.

julieanne912 · October 2016

Yup, definitely not the lone liberal.

AprilZ81 · October 2016

Can I just say how happy I am that we have had several civil political conversations with a lot of us having different opinions and no one has called someone else an idiot/moron/jerk/stupid/loser/etc.? That is sooooo unusual, especially online!

smerka · October 2016

Hoffse will probably know more about this, but Trump probably had (had not has. his company became pubically traded) S Corps, LLCs, and other sole proprietorships. The income or loss for all of those entities gets carried to the personal tax return. His 916,000,000 loss gets carried forward for up to 15 years to offset all other income until the whole amount is used up. And you can amend the prior three years to offset your income from the past for a total of 18 years. You can do this with stock losses too but I think for only $3,000 a year to offset capital gains. (Not tax advice. Consult your tax professional)

short+sassy · October 2016

Ooops, the (below) post was in response to @smerka's comment.

I have an LLC and my tax return for it is totally separate than from my personal return. Last year was a huge loss, because I had major expenses fixing up the new duplex I had under it, but no rental income in 2015. Those losses will roll over, within the LLC, to future years but not to my personal taxes.

At least that was how I filed things and assumed it worked. However, it is entirely possible I am very mistaken. That would not surprise me at all, lol.

hoffse · October 2016

The big problem with the hoopla around Trump's tax returns is that the reporters don't understand it. I practice in it, and I would probably not understand it without weeks of study and a team of people helping me. This is because he has so many business enterprises, and every one of them plays into his personal return in some way.

Each company will file it's own return. There are different tax rules for distributions from partnerships (LLC's), C-corps, and S-corps. At a 30,000-foot view, companies can distribute profits, losses, real property, debt, personal property, etc. And then there are special rules that arise if an entity is bought, sold, merges, liquidates, or reorganizes during the year. When this happens it's not just rules on the sale that get triggered, you have to look at things like executive compensation too.

It is extremely common in corporate America to have many many entities in a greater corporate structure. Maybe one entity holds the IP. Another runs the business. Another employs the W-2 employees. Another is a holding company. And on and on.

I'm working on a hospital transaction right now that has (at last count) 24 entities on it's organizational chart. I have formed 12 of them. I will be forming more. This is for a single, relatively small community hospital.

Trump's organizational chart is going to be enormous.

And then you have all of the real estate. Real estate investments have their own funky rules.

I think he's a caustic jackass, but IMO all of the attention this is getting is kind of ridiculous. It's way too nuanced for a 1,000-word article from the NYT or whatever.

smerka · October 2016

That and they only published three pages of what is assumed to be a HUuuuGe tax return.

vlagrl35 · October 2016

every one is talking about his taxes and I don't care for him btw but what about the clinton foundation and all of the other things. We are screwed either way I see it.

als1982 · October 2016

LillibetteV said:

My understanding is that he has constructed his empire in such a non-traditional way that all of the "business" assets are really his personal assets - hence why it was his personal tax return. I definitely need to read more one it though.

Although no matter the answer I think he's complete scum and I'm scared for our country that he even made it this far. Although some previous boards have made it clear I'm one of the lone liberals on this board I like that we can all still keep the few political debates that come up civil.

#teamleftofcenter

Xstatic3333 · October 2016

als1982 said:

LillibetteV said:

My understanding is that he has constructed his empire in such a non-traditional way that all of the "business" assets are really his personal assets - hence why it was his personal tax return. I definitely need to read more one it though.

Although no matter the answer I think he's complete scum and I'm scared for our country that he even made it this far. Although some previous boards have made it clear I'm one of the lone liberals on this board I like that we can all still keep the few political debates that come up civil.

#teamleftofcenter

I'm with you guys. There seems to more of us than I remember! Either way, +1 for the ability to have civil political debates. That is so rare in this day and age.

jtmh2012 · October 2016

vlagrl35 said:

every one is talking about his taxes and I don't care for him btw but what about the clinton foundation and all of the other things. We are screwed either way I see it.

This is the part that irritates me. They're both doing the same things tax wise, but people will rake Trump over the coals and ignore it with Clinton. I also wish the media would stop calling it an email server scandal. People go "it was just emails, so what?". It's not just emails. It's called improper handling of classified material. Anybody else would be in prison right now and there are people that have been and are currently being prosecuted for this for doing less than what she did.

As an aside, I think it's funny when people get upset about what a candidate says in a specific speech. They're speaking to the specific audience that they happen to be addressing. People do this all the time, but you know what? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. None of them represent us. None of them worry about losing a job, having money to put food on the table, etc. They're all bought and paid for by somebody.

Honestly, if you want things to change in the government, the 535 congressional representatives are the ones who need replacing. They're the ones who can change the tax codes, fix health insurance, help improve the economy, etc. If they don't write the bills, the president can't sign or veto it.

cbee817 · October 2016

@brij2006 - saw the Beta update. Congrats!

brij2006 · October 2016

jtmh2012 said:

vlagrl35 said:

every one is talking about his taxes and I don't care for him btw but what about the clinton foundation and all of the other things. We are screwed either way I see it.

This is the part that irritates me. They're both doing the same things tax wise, but people will rake Trump over the coals and ignore it with Clinton. I also wish the media would stop calling it an email server scandal. People go "it was just emails, so what?". It's not just emails. It's called improper handling of classified material. Anybody else would be in prison right now and there are people that have been and are currently being prosecuted for this for doing less than what she did.

As an aside, I think it's funny when people get upset about what a candidate says in a specific speech. They're speaking to the specific audience that they happen to be addressing. People do this all the time, but you know what? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. None of them represent us. None of them worry about losing a job, having money to put food on the table, etc. They're all bought and paid for by somebody.

Honestly, if you want things to change in the government, the 535 congressional representatives are the ones who need replacing. They're the ones who can change the tax codes, fix health insurance, help improve the economy, etc. If they don't write the bills, the president can't sign or veto it.

Side story: I have a friend who is a manager in a government organization. She just had to fire a very good employee because he sent 3 e-mails through his personal e-mail while at work. 3! Just 3. She had to immediately revoke his security clearance and see him out the door.
She is pretty hardcore Democrat, but said that she can't, in good faith, vote for Hillary. She has had to fire someone for just 3 e-mails, not 33,000. Yet Clinton received a slap on the wrist.

It's disappointing how media is constantly ripping Trump apart yet the elephant in the room is being ignored.

brij2006 · October 2016

@cbee817 Thanks. I've been having some spotting so we're still monitoring things. Go in again this afternoon for a 4th beta. The 3rd beta was 96 hours after the 2nd, so that's why it increased so much. Needed to be over 1,500 to be where they wanted it.
So we're still praying that baby gets snuggled in there and stays put. For now its putting mom and dad on an emotional roller coaster.

cbee817 · October 2016

@brij2006 - good luck today. I hope everything goes well for you and your family

abrewer5 · October 2016

@brij2006 sending positive vibes your way. I hope everything goes well today.

labro · October 2016

@brij2006 Vibes to you!! FWIW, my sister had spotting all throughout her first trimester. It was incredibly stressful and scary but ultimately everything was fine and I hope it's the same for you!

short+sassy · October 2016

brij2006 said:

jtmh2012 said:

vlagrl35 said:

every one is talking about his taxes and I don't care for him btw but what about the clinton foundation and all of the other things. We are screwed either way I see it.

This is the part that irritates me. They're both doing the same things tax wise, but people will rake Trump over the coals and ignore it with Clinton. I also wish the media would stop calling it an email server scandal. People go "it was just emails, so what?". It's not just emails. It's called improper handling of classified material. Anybody else would be in prison right now and there are people that have been and are currently being prosecuted for this for doing less than what she did.

As an aside, I think it's funny when people get upset about what a candidate says in a specific speech. They're speaking to the specific audience that they happen to be addressing. People do this all the time, but you know what? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. None of them represent us. None of them worry about losing a job, having money to put food on the table, etc. They're all bought and paid for by somebody.

Honestly, if you want things to change in the government, the 535 congressional representatives are the ones who need replacing. They're the ones who can change the tax codes, fix health insurance, help improve the economy, etc. If they don't write the bills, the president can't sign or veto it.

Side story: I have a friend who is a manager in a government organization. She just had to fire a very good employee because he sent 3 e-mails through his personal e-mail while at work. 3! Just 3. She had to immediately revoke his security clearance and see him out the door.
She is pretty hardcore Democrat, but said that she can't, in good faith, vote for Hillary. She has had to fire someone for just 3 e-mails, not 33,000. Yet Clinton received a slap on the wrist.

It's disappointing how media is constantly ripping Trump apart yet the elephant in the room is being ignored.

I worked for a defense contractor for three years and held a secret clearance at that time. I agree it is a BIG deal that she did not follow the proper protocol for handling sensitive material. And, if she were running against almost anybody else, it would be a key factor I would be considering.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is being ignored. It is well known and has been largely covered. With that said, if Trump wasn't so controversial and a different candidate had been picked, I do agree that the server scandal would now be garnering more attention than it currently is.

As an aside, my defense contractor days was in a workplace with contractors from many companies working in the same space. So there was also the opportunity for industrial espionage. Even the most mundane things...going to get water or coffee, going to the restroom...I'd usually have to scoop up whatever I was working on and throw it in a drawer I could lock until I returned.

jtmh2012 · October 2016

short+sassy said:

I worked for a defense contractor for three years and held a secret clearance at that time. I agree it is a BIG deal that she did not follow the proper protocol for handling sensitive material. And, if she were running against almost anybody else, it would be a key factor I would be considering.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is being ignored. It is well known and has been largely covered. With that said, if Trump wasn't so controversial and a different candidate had been picked, I do agree that the server scandal would now be garnering more attention than it currently is.
As an aside, my defense contractor days was in a workplace with contractors from many companies working in the same space. So there was also the opportunity for industrial espionage. Even the most mundane things...going to get water or coffee, going to the restroom...I'd usually have to scoop up whatever I was working on and throw it in a drawer I could lock until I returned.

Oh I think it's being ignored. I'm not saying it needs 24/7 press coverage, but if people took it seriously nobody would be voting for her. She would have lost the Democratic primary.

Xstatic3333 · October 2016

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I worked for a defense contractor for three years and held a secret clearance at that time. I agree it is a BIG deal that she did not follow the proper protocol for handling sensitive material. And, if she were running against almost anybody else, it would be a key factor I would be considering.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is being ignored. It is well known and has been largely covered. With that said, if Trump wasn't so controversial and a different candidate had been picked, I do agree that the server scandal would now be garnering more attention than it currently is.
As an aside, my defense contractor days was in a workplace with contractors from many companies working in the same space. So there was also the opportunity for industrial espionage. Even the most mundane things...going to get water or coffee, going to the restroom...I'd usually have to scoop up whatever I was working on and throw it in a drawer I could lock until I returned.

Oh I think it's being ignored. I'm not saying it needs 24/7 press coverage, but if people took it seriously nobody would be voting for her. She would have lost the Democratic primary.

Here's my reasoning as someone that does plan to vote for her in the general (not that it matters with the state I live in anyway), but did not in the Democratic primary. I do not discount the seriousness of the email scandal. There are many things I like about Hillary, but this showed poor judgement at best. Concern that she would be indicted for it after becoming the nominee and leave the Dems stranded without a candidate were heavy on my mind when I made my primary decision.

However, Trump has said and done things in his campaign that I never thought I would see from a presidential candidate on either side, and that, to me, are far, far worse and make me feel bound, by conscience, to vote for the candidate with the best chance of beating him. I likely would have voted for her against other potential Republican nominees as well, simply because her opinions on policy align more closely with mine than theirs, but with Trump as the opponent it is an especially enthusiastic vote.

Edit: Hoping that all goes well @brij2006!

FutureMrsMerati · October 2016

I just wanted to add my two cents in here by saying that I certainly can't take issue with someone taking their deductions (as long as they're valid). However, I do have a hard time stomaching that despite thorough investigations into hundreds of charities, no evidence has been found to support any philanthropic donations. If you're using the extra cash from your deductions to do good with it, good for you. But I take issue with someone who allegedly has all this extra cash lying around from making more money, paying less tax, and making fewer charitable donations than my husband and I, who hasn't even donated directly to his own charity since 2008 - let alone to any others, other than when there's a personal gain to be made. Say what you want about being an intelligent business decision, coming from someone in business I unfortunately don't think it shows a level of compassion, empathy and decency that's necessary for presidency.

Edit: I also take issue with someone claiming others are deadbeats for not paying their taxes, when they do not pay taxes themselves

Prayers for you @brij2006!!!

LillibetteV · October 2016

FutureMrsMerati said:

I just wanted to add my two cents in here by saying that I certainly can't take issue with someone taking their deductions (as long as they're valid). However, I do have a hard time stomaching that despite thorough investigations into hundreds of charities, no evidence has been found to support any philanthropic donations. If you're using the extra cash from your deductions to do good with it, good for you. But I take issue with someone who allegedly has all this extra cash lying around from making more money, paying less tax, and making fewer charitable donations than my husband and I, who hasn't even donated directly to his own charity since 2008 - let alone to any others, other than when there's a personal gain to be made. Say what you want about being an intelligent business decision, coming from someone in business I unfortunately don't think it shows a level of compassion, empathy and decency that's necessary for presidency.

Prayers for you @brij2006!!!

And there are allegations that he has misused the funds from his charity!

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