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Hypothetical Question
Let's say that your apartment lease expired in July. In the beginning of June you signed a form saying yes, you would like to renew your lease for 12 months and management sent you a new lease to sign. Let's say that lease has remained on your desk, unsigned and obviously has never been turned in. You still pay your rent on time each month and plan to stay in the apartment but for whatever reason the lease just wasn't signed or turned in and the management hasn't asked for it.
Does this mean that for all intents and purposes, we don't have a lease?
Now, let's say new neighbors move in downstairs. They're very early 20 somethings and like to have lots of people over on the weekends. They're VERY loud til 3am almost every single weekend. Lots of people in and out and you can unfortunately hear all of their ridiculousness. You've politely asked said neighbors to be a little more quiet and it hasn't helped. Your next alternative is to start calling the cops, which you have no problem doing but obviously the neighbors will know who called.
Would you start looking for another place to live? I don't really WANT to move since I've lived in this building for 3+ years. I like the management and the maintenance staff are great. I just DESPISE the new neighbors. They are so effing rude.
Re: Hypothetical Question
Hmmmm...that's a tough one. I'm not sure legally whether you are "stuck" in a lease for a year even if it wasn't turned in. Sorry I'm no help there.
If you like where you live I don't know about looking for a new place either. Have you talked to management? At my old apartment, we could complain about loud, rude neighbors and if they got so many calls on someone, they were given notices and eventually evicted. I hate rude apartment dwellers. They are the worst! GL with whatever you decide.
In my apartment complex - the first year we were in a lease - meaning we had to stay there for X amount of months. After those months were up, we are on a month to month basis, and can leave at anytime, but must give 60 days notice.
You say that you've asked your neighbors to be quiet, how was this done, verbally? If already done verbaly, I would attempt to write a letter expressing your concerns. If that doesn't work, talk to your management before calling the police. Management will most likely be on your side, b/c you have lived there for 3 years (I'm assuming your not a trouble maker). If that doesn't work, I would call the cops. OR..get even...blast your radio/tv, stomp accross your place, cook smelly food, etc very early in the morning...say like 6am?
I guess the thing is, we don't technically have a lease signed. So I'm not sure how that would work out as far as moving.
Yes - we verbally asked the rude neighbors to be more quiet at 2am a week or so ago. Didn't seem to help. It sucks because my H knows the girl who moved downstairs from high school (she's several years younger). I just don't understand why you need to have 8 people over to your 1 bedroom apartment. These places are only 900 sq. ft.
Additional issue that I forgot to mention - they smoke pretty heavily and for some reason, it's coming into our apartment, especially in our bathroom (which is right above their bathroom). Our towels have started smelling like cigarette smoke. I know that it's their right to smoke in their apartment or whatever, but I shouldn't have to smell it in MINE. I'm just not sure what the management could do about it short of pulling down the ventilation system and replacing it.
Sorry for being a whiner today ladies. I'm just so irritated with these people.
In CA, the way the law is written, if you pay your rent at the beginning of the month and are not asked to vacate your apartment by the management, then the actions of both parties show that you are on a month-to-month lease. If you wanted to move out, you should be able to give 30 days notice and then just go. They probably don't realize that you're not on a lease right now, but that can be to your benefit.
As for the neighbors, I would definitely submit a formal complaint to management. They might not listen to you, but if they are threatened with angering the management, then they might pipe down. That, or call the cops when they're partying too loud.
It seems like you asked 2 questions here. Legally, you are NOT in any binding contract. It's their problem for not following up with you about renewing your lease. Clearly, they don't do a good job at keeping up with paperwork. Whenever you feel like moving out you can, and they really can't do anything about it, since you didn't enter into anything signed saying you'd be there for another year. They'll probably try to charge you for terming your lease early, but since you don't have one, they won't be able to do anything.
As far as your second question goes, if you think your neighbors are going to retaliate since they will definitely know you called the cops, yes, I would probably start looking for a new place to live. If you don't think they will do anything, and you like where you live, I would say screw it and stay there.
The place where we used to live we had this cvnt of a woman that lived below us. She would literally call the leasing office or the cops on us on a monthly basis and file all these complaints against us. She called the cops on us on Superbowl sunday at like 3 in the afternoon. I made her life a living hell after that for about 9 months before we moved out.
The part in bold makes it sound like to me they would have proof of you agreeing to the lease. You might have a case in that you don't have a signed lease, but still...
I'd look into what the deal is if you have to break a lease.
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The thing you signed probably was only a form to remind them that they had to draw up a new lease and that needed to be signed. Where we used to live (again, this may vary by state) it stated in our first lease that we must decide 60 days before the end of our lease if we wished to renew. They would put a form in our mailbox which was an intent to resign a lease. We could either sign it saying yes, draw us up a new lease, or no, we will vacate the premises in 60 days.
The leasing office then drew up a new lease, usually raised rent a shitton, I would negotiate them down (this usually took about 3 new leases being drawn up, until we agreed on something.) If we could agree on something, and nothing was signed, I could tell them to screw, and nothing would happen.
Good point Junebug. You could always play the card that you'd planned on signing a lease, but when you received the new lease you didn't agree to all of the terms so you opted to not renew.
I think it just depends on the way the laws are written in your state, and how far the management may be willing to push. If you're really interested in moving, it can't hurt to ask.
I'll forewarn you though, we just moved last week and it's EXPENSIVE!
THIS is the biggest reason I don't want to move. I shouldn't have to shell out more money and leave because other people are completely inconsiderate. I hate sounding like a grumpy old person but truly, you should not be shouting on your back porch with 5 other drunk people at 3am. I don't care if it is Saturday night.
I'm thinking management has a decent shot in a lawsuit if you move out and they want you to pay termination fees but most likely you win because its their negligence, usually you will always get the benefit in a landlord/renter situation but it does vary by state.
If it was me I would move, even if you complain to management or the cops, most likely these neighbors will not change their lifestyle. The smoke thing would be worse for me than the noise I think. I would submit separate complaints to management in writing for each problem and keep copies. That is one more argument you have should you have to go to court over termination fees if they do nothing about it. Either way, waiting for management do something about it, probably means waiting at least 2-3 months best case. They would at the best give them a warning, probably at least a couple of times and then have to give them notice if they decided to evict them which is probably a long shot unless your complex is highly sought after and they can easily re-rent the apartment.
If you can find somewhere comprable to live, I would move and not deal with the headache.
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We've had the same issue with the people below us and we complained to the management when we weren't able to resolve it directly with the neighbors. It is in the landlord's best interest to step in because I'm sure you are not the only one who is bothered by this. I just left a message saying we've asked them to keep it down and our next step is to call the cops.
Is there anything in your lease about quiet hours or noise levels?
As for your lease, you've reverted to a month-to-month tenancy. Your intent to sign a lease doesn't count because the actual agreement has to be in writing since it's for a year (you can have an oral contract for less than a year, but not for a year or more). You intended to sign a lease, but never did. Basically, either you or your landlord/management have to give the other 30 days notice to vacate. It's actually a pretty sweet setup while it lasts because many apartments charge a ridiculous fee to revert to month-to-month.
If you complain to management about the noisy neighbors, you might alert them to the situation with your lease. But you might still be able to postpone a decision of move or resign by asking them to remedy the situation before you agree to a further commitment.
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I was right! Thanks Lawyer Leigha! I'm studying for my CA real estate exam, and this is something that we covered recently.