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Repost to this board- help me! LONG!!
DD is 5 months old but was born 5 weeks early, she is for sure a high needs girl. I've chosen to embrace it while sometimes DH wants to try to put up a fight against it. We've been co-sleeping off and on since she was born. I'm breastfeeding and it's SO much easier for me. He's offered to get up and help so we can transition her to the crib but it's just easier for me to feed her in bed. He's afraid that she'll be in our bed "forever". I'm not concerned really. I think eventually she'll transition on her terms (although I'm not 100% sure that'll happen- I'm hopeful).He wants to transition starting after all the holiday chaois. Do you ladies have any suggestions for a smooth transition for her? Right now we try to put her in the crib and she's awake crying (bloody murder screaming) after 5 mins max! The other night we tried, she'd sleep 5 mins, wake up screaming, we'd console without picking her up, she'd fall back asleep and 5 mins later the process started over. She also has a hard time napping at home. I think she just gets overly tired. She'll nap fine if she's worn but other than that she won't. She naps great at the sitter (although I'm sure she ends up crying there more than I'd like)... I've tried reading her cues for napping and bedtime and putting her down drowsy but awake and that doesn't work either... ANY insight is appreciated!! On the other board they suggested pulling her mattress out of her crib and sleeping by her on that for a few nights to get her used to it and knowing that I was there. They also suggested MOVING the entire crib into our room but that's not an option because the crib is pretty big and we have a GIANT bed (it's a 4 post bed that takes up too much of the room) so that wouldn't work because of the space issue. This is becoming a real issue because tonight DH said maybe he'll start sleeping in the guest bed until she's out of our bed. He knows it's easiest for me to nurse her in bed because I don't get up and down so much which means I'm not fully awake in the night (which means me feeling more rested). He said well we can do it until she weans around a year but now he's having a hard time sleeping with her in the bed. She's a bed hog! 
I think he also doesn't sleep as deeply because she's there. I, on the other hand, feel like deep sleep or light sleep is better than no sleep!I refuse to let her CIO, that's just not my style of parenting and his either, so we need to figure something out before we lose our minds. I said I would NEVER co-sleep then I became a BF momma with no sleep and did it... so the story begins!
I think he also doesn't sleep as deeply because she's there. I, on the other hand, feel like deep sleep or light sleep is better than no sleep!I refuse to let her CIO, that's just not my style of parenting and his either, so we need to figure something out before we lose our minds. I said I would NEVER co-sleep then I became a BF momma with no sleep and did it... so the story begins!
Re: Repost to this board- help me! LONG!!
I'm not a mom yet so I can't really comment and tried and true suggestions.
5 months seems kind of early to start worrying about the baby being in bed with you guys forever, but if it's not working for him it's probably worth examining some other solutions. Just so I can figure this out - does the baby sleep in between you two? And is he not sleeping well because he's scared he might invade her space, or because she is a noisy sleeper (I have read about both being a concern...)
If it's because she invades his space and/or he is worried about being next to her I'm wondering if it would be possible to put a bed guard on your side of the bed and have her sleep (when needed) only on your side. Although those are one of those things that cause controversy - as smaller children may be able to get wedged between it and the mattress if you are not careful...
It's too bad you can't start the transition with a crib of some sort in your room - do you have anyone you could borrow a smaller crib from?
And finally, maybe look into one of those sound machines, she is probably use to hearing your breathing and other small reassuring noises so having some background noise might help.
DD has been sleeping in her crib from the 1st night she came home from the hospital so I have no experience w/this per se, however we have started training DD to fall asleep on her own by putting her in the crib sleepy but awake so I'll offer a little advice there....
I've done a modified CIO with her. what I do is I put her down while she is sleepy but awake and give her several pats on the chest and run my hands down the front of her head a few times. I'll then step aside to where she can't see me anymore (some people leave the room but I just stay out of sight). then I start watching the clock and will step back into sight and rub/pat her again (w/o picking her up) every 3-5 minutes, usually 3 minutes b/c waiting 5 minutes feels like an eternity! if she fusses a little, I still soothe her 3 min later but if she starts crying I start the clock over again. It is so hard standing there while she is crying but there have seriously been times where I was ready to give in after 2 min and just waited a few more seconds and within 30 sec she has calmed down and is quiet again.... I then wait another 3 min (since she "reset" the time by crying) and then soothe her again. it only takes a few times before she has fallen asleep.
now I know you said that CIO isn't your parenting style, but maybe you'd be willing to try this modified CIO? if she is up screaming after 5 min of being in the crib, perhaps you can stay there and catch her just as she is starting to stir and soothe her at 3 min before it escalates?? if our DD escalates from crying to wailing/screaming then I always pick her up and hold her. I haven't read any books so I don't know if this is "breaking the rules," but it's too hard for me to watch her scream like that and it hasn't seemed to hinder her sleep training.
when we first started, I'd put her down sleepy and she'd immediately wake up and start crying and it would take another 15-30 min for me to get her to sleep (in my arms) before I could put her down again. now I'm able to put her down while she is sleepy and she will go down about 80-90% of the time so we are still working on it, but it's so much better than rocking her until she is fully asleep and then putting her down.
I have to say that I can understand the appeal of co-sleeping when you are EBFing. I will sometimes nurse DD in bed in the early morning time and start to doze off, but unfortunately she poops every time she nurses (plus her cloth diaper is also pretty soaked w/urine after a long sleep) so I always end up having to get up and change her diaper and then I am wide awake anyway.
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Sorry, no advice for the main post.
But....
I really like this! I feel very protective about our bed and would ideally prefer to transition the baby to his/her own sleep space very quickly. I will have to remember to try this technique.
Also, does anyone know of one single book or resource about different sleep techniques? I don't think I have the patience to read through a ton of different sources...
First of all, just know you're not alone in this debate...new parents everywhere suffer with it too.
Although she's not here yet, I am already reading books on how to help Libby sleep. I just finished "No Cry Sleep Solution" and highly recommend it. It was written by a mom who co-slept/breastfed and does not advocate CIO.
My first thought is to side car Belle to your bed with a PNP or Arm's Reach Co-sleeper. Does anyone you know have one you can borrow? If so, I'd start there...so she's next to you, but not in your bed (we plan to start with Libby in one of these as I am terrified to actually bedshare with her). We plan to have her in the Arm's Reach Co-Sleeper on my side of the bed for the first 3-4 months and then transitioner her to her crib in the next room. We'll start her in the crib right away though for naps. And will put her down for the first sleep of the night (around 7-8 p.m.) in the crib because we won't be heading to bed until 9-10 p.m. and it's not safe to have the baby in the ARCO unattended.
The idea is to start by getting her out of your bed, but not out of your room just yet. Then after she's comfortable with that situation for a while you can transition her to her own crib in the other room.
Another idea is to start putting her down for naps in her crib, so she's used to it. If you can nurse her just before she starts to nod off and then place her in the crib that would be best. Nursing until they fall asleep teaches them that they cannot sleep unless they are sucking. If she's already like that you might try a pacifier, but I'd go with the nursing until she starts to doze method first.
The book also says that babies cannot put themselves to sleep...you have to teach them. So the fact that she's not a good napper may mean you're waiting too long to put her down for the nap. If you can put her down before she's overtired, that would be best. The book makes a lot of sense in that it says if they nap well in the day they'll sleep better at night. Maybe counter-intuitive for new parents but it totally makes sense the way she decribes it. And she's definitely done her research on the sleep cycle of infants and older babies, etc.
I definitely recommend getting your hands on a copy of the book. It was a whole method to the madness and while it takes time to work, it does work. Maybe you can borrow it from a friend or check-it out from the library or buy it used on Amazon?
GL!
TTC/PG Blog | Mommy Blog
sarah-
sorry you are having troubles transitioning little bella-while not a mom-my sister had a lot of sleep issues with my nephew and she consulted with someone who specialized in this and was very helpful for her-happy to get name and number for you-let me know-
Obviously I have no personal experience with this at this stage (and doubt we'll co-sleep as the two of us plus two babies in a queen sized bed probably wouldn't work very well lol so take my advice with a grain of salt), but this is exactly what I was going to suggest as well:
Would this be an option for you? I know you don't have room for the entire crib, but a co-sleeper is much smaller and would at least get her used to sleeping in her own space (vs snuggled up between or with you and your DH).
I think that trying to get her to take naps in her crib is probably a good idea as well, so she gets used to the room and the crib and understands that it's not a lonely, scary place.
Lisa, I saw that the Original Arm's Reach Co-Sleeper can hold twin babies...so that could be an option for you, if you wanted.
We got ours second hand for $75 and ordered a new liner for it for $30.
TTC/PG Blog | Mommy Blog
This probably would work, but looking at the size, I doubt I could fit it into our bedroom.
Most bedrooms in Australia are built on a smaller scale than those in the States, so even our "Master" bedroom only has space for a queen bed (queen beds are the most common size here - the majority of bedframes aren't even sold in king sizes) and two small bedside tables.Thanks for the link though!!!
How did you get her to attach to a lovey and how did you pick which lovey? We have several that were given to us and I she doesn't seem to have a preference for one over the other... at least not yet! I'd love for her to have a lovey so it could be something that creates a sense of security for her. She won't take a paci at all, we've tried all kinds, shapes, sizes, even a $10 one!! She gags on them, like crazy she gags. I'm not sure why she takes the bottle but for some reason she's never been a fan of the paci.
Also Alix, I'd love to have that ## and info.
I've read the No cry sleep solution and we've tried MANY of the things from that book with no luck... it sounded SO good when I was preggo but now, it's a totally different story!
Sarah, I SO can relate to what you're going through right now hon! It is such a trial and error thing and feels like you're guessing most of the time.
I agree with Lori and Lisa, have you considered using an Arm's Reach co-sleeper? Seeing as it has become an issue to the point where your husband is thinking about sleeping elsewhere, it might be an answer?
It's worth a try. There are companies that hire this sort of thing out so see if you can either hire it (to see if it works for the three of you) or see if you can score a second-hand one, like Lori did.
I never used an Arms Reach, as Josh never felt uncomfortable enough to consider sleeping elsewhere so Maya slept between us. I did find that it was a little detrimental to our relationship in the sense of we never really felt we had our own space to cuddle up to each other whilst sleeping etc
However, the thing is this: it's a period of time that doesn't last forever and you not only have to reinvent yourself as a person...you have to reinvent yourself as a couple. You might not get that snuggle-time at night so you make sure you get that intimacy with your husband at other times.
I was gonna second the 'No Cry Sleep Solution' book but it seems it didn't help you at all.
Maya started sleeping with us at 5 mths and we bought her a 'big girl' bed about, oh, 4 months ago or so. I was scolded and told by so many people "Oh, you're creating a rod for your back", "She'll still be in your bed when she's 5" etc etc. I heard it ALL.
I did try to put her in the cot several times (when she was younger) and let her cry a little (when I hit desperation point) but Maya is just not one of these kids that can be 'trained' to sleep (god I hate that term. They're kids, not dogs) by CIO. She had stamina, that cheeky munchkin. She could go for two hours if we let it go that far. I know, I tested it out and she kept on going and going and going for THAT long. I felt terrible, it broke my heart!
She also never took to a lovey. NOW, she has a couple of lovies, at 2 and a half lol....but earlier...nope.
The reason why I'm describing how Maya was is because all kids are different, as you know. I was repeatedly frustrated because I would be given advice from other parents, who had easier babies, that would never work for Maya. So, absolutely try out the suggestions here as they may work but don't lose heart if they don't work either.
Now, I'm thumbing my nose at all the naysayers and bad-news-bears that told me I was doing the wrong thing by co-sleeping. Maya transitioned to her big girl bed, in her own room, without an issue at all.Do we still have to lay with her until she falls asleep, yes....but we're getting there.
My motto is: if no one else was around to judge...would you change what you're doing? If you say no, that what you're currently doing suits you and your baby then ignore what everyone else thinks/says. Savour those night cuddles and that closeness hon, it really is over in a blink of an eye!
If you need to chat/vent/anything, feel free to message me on FB anytime!
I also want to suggest what Alix did, if you and your hubby really want/need to have her sleep in her own crib then calling in someone who specializes in this area is also worth a try.
Make sure, though, that he/she shares your opinions about CIO. A lot of these people use the CIO method in one form or another. There are those out there that can show you ways of getting Bella to sleep every night in her own bed without having her CIO.
Don't get me wrong, a little fussing is not gonna hurt Bella either. If she fusses a little at first but you, your husband and her fall into a successful sleep routine than...BINGO! A small amount of fussing will be worth it.
I considered this but we didn't have the money so we just plodded along and kept co-sleeping lol.
G'luck hon!
Wow... Lots of really great advice here... Here is some more! :-)
We "transitioned" Alexa to her crib when she was 2 months. Before that, she was in her bassinet next to our bed or next to the futon in the office, where I slept so DH could get a good night's sleep in our bed b/c he had to work and I didn't. He is a light sleeper. I sleep like a log anywhere.
1st point - You would not be the first couple to sleep in separate rooms b/c of the need for sleep and an infant. If that is what works for you, do it. It won't last forever.
2nd point - If you want to continue co sleeping, I think getting an arm's reach thing is a great idea.
3rd point - If you want to "transition" her to her crib, then I would suggest letting her have some "happy" awake time in her crib so she associates happy feelings with her crib. I let Alexa watch her music mobile in her crib and she loves her mobile. I also walk into the room each morning with a big smile and don't pick her up right away but instead play with her and make her smile before I pick her up. Crib = Happy Times.
4th point - Naps are sooooo important! Sleep begets sleep! It is true, the more they sleep, the more they sleep! So you might want to consider working on getting her to nap at home and nap in her crib. (Naps in the carseat are not the same! This is from Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby) I would also recommend the "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer" book for getting Bella on a routine that involves regular naps. The keys are watching for her signs and making sure you put her down after she's been awake for 1.5 to 2 hours.
I know with Alexa, if I miss her sleepy cues or put off her nap because I am doing something and she gets overtired, she cries when I put her down but if I catch her early and put her down before she gets overtired, she goes right to sleep with no crying. And the more she sleeps during the day, the more she sleeps at night!
Generally, she takes 3-4 naps of 30 mins to 2 hours a day.
5th point - I hear ya on the CIO not being an option. I cringe when I hear other moms talk about how their kid only cried 13 hours on the first night of Ferber but now they are STTN. Ugg. So not me.
I like Jaime's modified CIO idea. I have the No Cry Sleep Solution book but have not yet had time to read it. With so many recs, I'll be sure to get reading!
Definitely put them down awake, but try to get them down when they are drowsey but awake. When they have the seven mile stare. When I time it right and get Alexa down at that time, her eyes are open and I'll do what Jaime does, sit in my chair in her room and wait and seriously in 30 seconds she's out. Or sometimes, I pluck her down and then run to the bathroom because I have to go NOW and by the time I am done, she's asleep.
I also do the Pick Up/Put Down thing from Baby whisperer. I'll wrap her in the Miracle Blanket and give her her Paci and then rock her in my arms while patting her back and saying "Shhh." Then I'll put her down. If she cries, then I'll leave her down, but roll her on her side and pat her back while saying "Shhh" and holding the Paci in. If she stops crying, usually in a minute or so, I'll roll her back onto her back and rub her chest and then sneak away. If she cries more, I pick her up, then put her back down and do it again. This method gets her to sleep in 5 mins or so. Maybe 10 at the most.
Also, I do nurse Alexa before bed (not before naps), but I then take her off and put her in her blanket so she does not fall asleep at the breast. And we do use a Paci for naps (but not bedtime), but when she falls asleep it falls out and I do not put it back.
Hope any of this helps... Good luck! :-)
Malia & Dave & Alexa
Happily married since 2-17-08! Three since 9-9-09!
Baby Blog
Oh THIS is a biggie too, very important!
When Maya misses her daytime nap (she is down to 1 nap and sleeps from around 1pm to approx 3pm-4pm now) she sleeps terribly/is wakeful that night and I've found this has been pretty much the way of it since she was born.
Good point!! We so need to figure out other times to snuggle up and cuddle (and have $ex for that matter) at night I'm just too tired!!
We have a bassinet that is RIGHT next to the bed, it actually touches the bed. That way I can put my hand in and comfort her, rub her belly or whatever. That doesn't work at all!! So I wouldn't want to spend the money on the co-sleeper since the bassinet won't work. The thing is, she's a smart girl, she wants to be curled up in her mommy's breasts with my arm around her little body! I must admit its super sweet and quite a cute sight but I was just concerned about DH.
I don't think Bella can be "trained" to sleep either. She's not a dog, she's a child and she knows exactly what she wants. She's a busy girl and she's terribly afraid that she might miss something. She could be napping in the other room, here a different voice and be wide awake and smiling... she wants to be part of ALL of the action!
We do keep researching and reading books and such to see if anything will help, that's why I asked for suggestions. She is SUCH a fun baby and I don't want to break her spirit by allowing her to CIO. Besides, I'm not that kind of momma. Although more power to those that can.
We do keep trying the crib for naps and for bedtime. yesterday she took one nap in there and then slept almost all night in there. Right now, she's actually napping in her crib. I'm trying to make her feel more comfortable in there and having some play time in her crib too.. Maybe it's helping. Who the heck knows!!
Funny story, I went to yoga this morning. Bella slept like a champ in her crib (woke up a couple of times to feed) and then went back down in her crib (it's a total fluke I'm sure!)I came home and she was in bed with DH!! I said "what the hell happened?" He said "well she was crying and it was just easier for me to snuggle up with her and give her the bottle with me in here"... sucker!!
I think DH secretly likes having her curled up in bed with us but I also think he misses our "us" time in bed at night so he's a little confused about what he wants. He wants both
If we had a bigger bed it may not be an issue (we currently have a queen) but time will tell what happens.
I appreciate everyone's input!! Any advice, input is always appreciated!
Malia,
We tried the PU/PD before I read the baby whisperer and it backfired on us totally!! We tried it for about 10 days but after doing it 10X in less than an hour for over a week, I was DONE with it!!
Just an FYI- Be careful with that baby whisperer book, there's a review on kellymom.com about how it can cause problems with your milk supply.
As for the paci- I posted about this, but she won't take one... gags like you've stuck your arm down her throat! No joke, it's bad although I'm not sure why she has such an issue with it.
The swaddling didn't work for ages and now we're trying it again. Maybe that's why she slept so good last night, we did one arm in, one arm out. That way she wasn't totally confined. I did try it about a month ago and she would scream for 10+mins even while being held if she was swaddled. Now, we're trying just one arm and we'll see how that keeps up... When I came in to feed her when she woke up, she had both arms out but that's ok.. it was worth a try!
We do need to work on better naps. Yesterday and today, we're working on this. I'm not running errands or disrupting her sleep even though I have things to get done because I want to see if this will help... Time will tell!!
Hi Sarah - we never did the co-sleep thing, SP slept in his crib from day 1, but he's been a great sleeper so just wanted to share what we did (basically did everything from Happiest Baby on the Block).
In his crib, we placed 2 little computer speakers in the corners where his head would typically be. The speakers were hooked up to my iPod that played a loop of white noise that we downloaded for free from this website. We took them out once he could turn over
He also had a mobile and the Fisher Price Aquarium thing, all good things to have to distract/entertain (the aquarium is better for night since it's got lights...the mobile part is now gone but the music part is still there and he turns it by himself every morning...he loves his Mozart).
He was swaddled every night, using the SwaddleMe blankets worked great for us. This worked for about 3 months and then he started breaking out however friends of ours swaddled until their daughter was one.
I did nurse him to sleep. I know it's not recommended but whatever, it worked for us. Sometimes I could tell that he stopped eating and was just comfort sucking at which point I would slip him a Soothie pacifer - it worked great since he was already asleep. He just stopped using the pacifer around 4 months on his own.
SP slept great in his crib at night but wouldn't want to nap in there (we have black-out curtains so it wasn't the light). We ended up making a make-shift sleeping area for him on the couch. He went out like a light on the couch!
Oh, gotta go, will be back later with more.
It was blind luck really. I found the cutest monkey for her online one day & just purchased it on a whim. I gave it to her the day it arrived & she immediately became attached to it. It's very similar to a sock monkey, except softer. It was money well spent!
I really hope you're able to come to a good place with transitioning your DD to her crib. The girls here have given you a lot of great advice!
Very well said!!
Really? I wonder how?
I don't follow the book to the T, just use the EASY theory as a guide.
I'll check out kellymom
Malia & Dave & Alexa
Happily married since 2-17-08! Three since 9-9-09!
Baby Blog
I just finished reading it and there's a section about how you shouldn't nurse to sleep (DD always falls asleep at the breast!!). So the EASY wouldn't work for us. However she has a lot of things in her book that say if X is the problem "then it could be mum's milk" She also has a part saying that if you have issues with self confidence/esteem then breastfeeding might not be for you because "you have to carry an extra 5-10lbs of fat to feed the baby" and your boobs can "become saggy" or "flat as pancakes". It really made me mad!! I read the entire thing to see if there was any good insight but overall, certain things erked me. Then I looked at kellymom for suggestions on books and read the review on there, no wonder why I didn't like it!