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Dog crating advice?
As all my animal-related posts are, this is long. Sorry!
Background: We crate our dog when we leave our house and at night. During the day, we've tried leaving her in a small room between our garage and kitchen, but she chewed up welcome mat we had at the entry way and when we removed that, she chewed the wooden window sill. At night, our cats start mulling around and she will follow them around, they'll growl/hiss...we'd never get any sleep. In short, I don't feel there's an alternative to crating her, as much as I wish there was. The crate doesn't have bedding, b/c she'll rip that up too. DH did glue down some carpet, though, to make it more comfortable. He rips it ups and replaces is periodically (though i will say not often enough, it gets stinky).
Since DH has been back to work, the dog has been in the crate much more. I let her out when I get up and she usually has 2-3 hours out before DH goes to work. Once I'm home, she usually has 5-6 hours out before we go to bed. She is usually active for maybe 2 of those hours and just lays around the rest of the time. On a whole, I think that's pretty good amount of time out of the crate considering we work full time. She has always whined for 5-10 minutes when we put her in the crate at night. We will occasionally tell her no at this time if she gets loud, but most of the time it's not much noise and we ignore her. We don't really mind this, but don't really understand why after 1.5 years she doesn't get the fact that she won't get released due to making noise. Lately, though, we've come to have a problem in that she's been waking us up every night between 3-5 in the morning whining (well, it's more of a moan, I call it a 'dying whale sound'). It doesn't seem to matter how little or much exercise she's gotten, even the days where she's been to the dog park or I've brought her for a 35 minute run she's up whining.I don't think she needs to go to the bathroom, since she's always been crated overnight and didn't do this when DH wasn't working.
The past two nights, we've come to the point of using a remote shock collar to discipline, since yelling "NO!" when your spouse has been able to sleep through the whining doesn't really work. The collar has two buttons, one emits a high pitched beep, the other shocks her. She typically responds to just the beep and we don't have to shock her, but DH did zap her once (he's tried it on himself, it's not that bad). She's currently crated downstairs (all the bedrooms are upstairs). As a solution, DH has mentioned bringing her up to our room and I do think she'd be quieter in our room and happier being with the "pack". I just don't know if I want to get her accustomed to that since I doubt I'd want her in there when we have kids, so we'd just be dealing with the issue all over again plus she'd feel all the more put out by the kid. Does anyone with kids crate their dog in their room and did this cause a problem? I just don't know what I can do to make the crate a happier place for her and it's driving me nuts being woken up in the morning. Any suggestions for discipline or making the crate a happier place given the above background info? With the nighttime wake-ups, I'm starting to feel like she's putting me in training for baby time or something!
Re: Dog crating advice?
using the shock collar while she's in the crate doesn't seem like a good idea to me. the crate is supposed to be a happy and safe place. you don't want to associate it with punishment and the shock (at least my .02)
if your ultimate goal is to have the dog get used to the house w/o using a crate, then i'd start by keeping her in your room at night. Ruby stays in our room with us and i don't think i'd have a reason to change that when we have kids.
We crated Colby for the first year of his life. These are just my opinions and experiences. I definitely agree with Katie in that the crate is supposed to be a safe haven. The shock collar will most likely make the pup resent the crate even more.
We always made the crate a pleasant place. Every time he needed to go in, we would toss in a small treat so that he would go in and get it. Eventually when we went to get the small treat, he would go in on his own.
When colby was crated through the night, the crate was kept right next to the side of my bed. When he would whine, I would put my hand down, he would sense I was there, the whining would stop.
When he was about 5 months, we let him sleep out of the crate. He still went in when we left for work or to go out in general, but he really appreciated being able to sleep with us. He still does and when this little one comes along, we will continue to allow him. If anything, I think he will keep me company for late feedings and whatnot. <while the hubs snores away>
Now, the crate is folded and in the garage. My MIL experimented with Colby while we were on our honeymoon. She would leave him out for a half hour or so at a time and eventually he was really good with being left out. One of the best things to enteratain him was an X-treme Kong ball with a treat inside. It will keep Colby busy for hours.
I hope that helps. I crated my parents two labs as well so if you have any questions feel free to ask : )
We don't crate Mia anymore, but both dogs sleep in our room. I thought about moving them out when we had Maddie, but I didn't want too much to change for them, so we decided to just leave things the same. It was fine. Mads was only in our room for the first 3-4 weeks, and babies that age sleep SO soundly that I don't think she would've woken up even if they started barking. If anything, I felt bad for the dogs being woken up every couple of hours by the baby
.
If you don't want to move the dog into the bedroom, have you considered just shutting your door or sleeping with a fan/white noise so that you don't hear her during the night? I am a really light sleeper, and we sleep with a loud fan so that the dogs don't bug me during the night with their little noises.
Also, Mia actually calmed down and got a lot quieter at night/in the morning after we stopped crating her at night. But she did have Ginger as a good example to follow, so I don't know if that would work in your case or not. GL!
Cocoa is also crated during the day since she tears up EVERYTHING when we are gone. We went out of our way to make sure her crate is a happy place, including feeding her in the crate and giving her treats if she goes in on her own.
I think the best idea is to make her crate a happy place first, and to do so you might have to move it into your bedroom for a little while. After she is ok with this, maybe you can move it to another room on the same floor, then eventually downstairs.
Does she need to be crated at night? Is there a particular reason you don't want her to roam?
The last time we tried to leave her out of the crate at night was over the summer and it didn't work. The problem with leaving her out of the crate at night is with our cats. They start roaming around (hungry) and she will follow them around. A lot of growling (by the cats) and hissing ensues. I'm not really worried she'll hurt them, but she just doesn't give them any personal space, sometimes she'll corner them and they get angry (i.e. piss on our carpet where she cornered them). As for closing our door to keep her sounds out or her in, by the time we're getting ready to go to bed at night, the cats are either on or under our bed, and it's difficult to get them out. So we can't just close the door b/c it cuts off their access to the kitty litter. If we didn't have cats I think she'd be just fine out of her crate, but we can't do anything to change that now.
I realize the crate/ happy place thing and we've done everything to make it that for the past 1.5 years (we always give her a treat when she goes in and sometimes leave her a kong). I just don't know how else to let her know the whining isn't acceptable when we aren't *right there* to discourage it. I'm just at my whits end about the whole thing.
Thanks for the feedback on the dogs not being a problem w/ respect to Maddie, Jenhum, that makes me feel better if we end up bringing her into our room. I guess we need to consider just leaving our bedroom door closed all day to keep all animals out so we can either let her sleep with us at night out of her crate, or have the sound muffled more, but DH hates closing the doors b/c the temperature doesn't regulate well.
Definitely this.
We started crating Maya about a year ago (I actually asked for advice on here when we started lol) and she LOVES her crate now.
We just made sure that she understood her crate is supposed to be a happy place where she can enjoy a treat away from the evil cat and where she can be safe in the big ol' scary house until mom and dad come home to let her out and play.
When we vaccuum, she goes straight for the crate. Sometimes when I can't find her, I'll look in the crate and she'll be sitting in there chilling lol.
We keep Maya in her crate on my side of the bed. She's really small (about 5 pounds) so her crate is also very small and it's never really been an issue. Plus, she is very quiet and never barks while she's in there (unless someone rings the doorbell or something), so she doesn't keep us awake.
I think you should try some positive readjustment and positive reinforcement with your dog so she starts viewing the crate as a place to be comfortable and safe (and happy!) and not a place she "has" to be.
We don't have kids yet, so I can't say with 100% conviction that we'd keep her crate in the bedroom when there's a child around, but I can't see why we wouldn't or why it would pose a problem.
Is she motivated by anything other than food/treats? Like toys or something else?
She loves squeaker toys, but that doesn't help the noise issue
. Plus, there are few toys that I'd trust her with that I wouldn't worry about her ripping apart and choking on.
Now I feel totally horrible about the shock collar thing
I just saw this, I'll have to pick one of these up.
I think that others have offered some good ideas. I personally like the idea of keeping the door shut to keep the cats out, so that your dog can sleep with you guys in your room (in her crate or out of her crate) at night. Hopefully being with the "pack" would ease some of her whining. If temperature regulation is a problem with your door shut (it definitely is in our room), then could you bring in an extra fan in the summer or get a heated blanket/mattress pad in the winter?
Our dog sleeps in our room (out of her crate) at night, although she didn't at first. It was an adjustment period at first, but now I think she's used to it and it makes me feel better since she spends less time in her crate overall (she is crated during the day while we're gone).
GL!
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I posted because I was FED.UP. and knew the shocker collar (which, again, we only used once to actually shock) wasn't a good solution, so I appreciate everyone's tact in confirming that fact - I couldn't have posted this on pets without coming out positively crispy. I just shared your thoughts w/ DH and we've decided to move the pup (in her crate) into our room for now. Hopefully we'll all sleep better tonight.
Maybe I missed this, but what kind of dog do you have?
While we let Colbs sleep with us, he is confined to our room. We had the circulation of air problem as well. Especially in the summer with the A/C. To solve that problem, we leave the door open and bought a baby gate to put at the entrance. We turn it on its side so it is tall enough to keep colby in and cat (when we had her) out.
HTH! and good luck, it can definitely be frustrating.
Yeah, we have this setup for 2 of our other rooms to restrict access (one to keep both cats & dog out, another to keep just the dog). I feel ridiculous having 2 baby gates and no kids!! I hadn't really considered another gate to fix this problem, but it could be another solution. I feel bad kicking our cats out of our room, though, since they usually sleep on our bed all day.
We also use a baby gate. Rascal is in his crate all day while we're at work, but he sleeps with us at night.
I only skimmed the other responses, but I do agree with KatieBride that shocking her in the crate might not be a good idea, since the crate is supposed to be a dog's "happy place."
I've got a kid and we've got two dogs. One sleeps in our bedroom on the floor and the other sleeps in the bonus room (the bonus room is her choice -- we leave our bedroom door and the bonus room door open at night, the rest of the upstairs doors, including DS' room, are closed).
I can't really remember if we kicked the dogs out of our bedroom when DS was in our room in a bassinet, but I don't think we did. I think they voluntarily chose to sleep in the bonus room a lot more b/c of all the constant waking on the part of DS and myself.
Anyway, I think your instinct about letting her sleep near the "pack" might be on target. You two are gone a good bit of the day, so she probably just wants to be close to you. It sounds like you're giving her a good bit of exercise during the work week. I say give it a try for a night or two, and see how it goes. GL!
Catching up on sports news...
I'll be the lone dissenter here about the shock collar v. happy place in the crate.
We have a shock collar (sounds like it's the same one) for J because he's got a hard head and will.not.listen sometimes. The shock collar has done wonders for his following commands, especially with me, because DH is the obvious alpha in our house and J and I fight back and forth for that alpha role.
That being said... the shock collar is correcting a negative behavior. That negative behavior just so happens to be while the dog is in the crate. In no way, shape or form does the dog equate the shock collar with the crate, the dog is associating it with the behavior since the behavior stops once beeped or shocked. Honestly, your three options are to ignore it completely (which equals lack of sleep for right now) so that the dog starts to understand they'll be receiving the opposite of what they want (attention), #2 is to give them the attention by saying no, etc. (which still means lack of sleep), or #3 is to do negative reinforcement of the behavior in hopes it'll stop.
It takes J awhile to stop pushing his luck with the collar and to start paying attention. He's 3 and we still have to put it on him because he gets all too comfortable and starts playing games. We never used it in his crate (we didn't have it then), but we went through this same struggle too. We ignored him (his crate is in the living room, single level house), turned on a fan, and eventually he got the point. We never, ever let him out while he was whining after he was potty trained.
I didn't have time to read all the responses, but we only crated our dog at night for the first month or so that we had her, until she felt comfortable in the room with us and quit roaming. I wouldn't want her crated all day while we were at work, and then all night too. She has always slept in our room, on her bed on the floor. It was never an issue after we had kids. She was way less likely to bother him in his PNP than the cats were!
charch, thanks for sharing. I feel like you & I think a lot alike so it made me feel better for you to relate to my conclusion in trying a shock collar, which is where we ended up after giving #1 & #2 a try. She woke us up around 1 am Saturday morning. As I was drifting back to sleep I thought "I wonder if the shock collar would work..." When she woke up again at 5 am, I rolled over and saw that DH had the remote in his hand, lol. We hadn't used it in months, so it was kind of funny to me that we'd reached the same conclusion at the same time (after it had been going on for about a week or so). The collar was a really helpful training tool to discourage the attention she gave the cats and also really helped her obedience when being called inside from our yard. In essence, when our presence at the exact location of misbehavior was impossible or made the situation worse. She can be so stubborn! I think some of our training difficulties (including the crate problem) come from the fact that we didn't have her as a little pup, they estimated she was between 9-11 months when we got her. I don't feel sad that we missed the fluffy/cute puppy stage, but I do think it would have been helpful to have had a size advantage at one point.
Have you tried ignoring her? I would make sure she is taken out to go to the bathroom right before bedtime. And maybe stand out there with her to make sure she actually does her thing. Then, I would put her to bed and just not acknowledge her until the morning time. This is going to suck for a few nights, but if she realizes that you aren't going to let her out then she'll eventually stop whining. I would think that by reacting to the whining she is getting her way, so I would just try to ignore her.
Has her eating or drinking changed? There could be a health issue that is causing her to have to go to the bathroom more. I would try to monitor her to see if there are any changes, specifically drinking.
Growing up we always had our dogs in crates. This was mainly because it was part of the Guide Dog training, but the crates were always downstairs. I'm not sure that moving it upstairs would solve anything honestly. And do not feel bad that there isn't a bed in there. That is how we did it, and we had labs too. The beds always turned into chew toys. To make the crate a happier place, you can try to crate her not only at bedtime and when you guys are at work. This shows them that something bad (you leaving her) doesn't always happen when she goes in the crate. We used to do this when we ate dinner or just randomly while we were watching tv. HTH!
We ignored her for at least a week or so - thus the fed up middle of the night decision to get the zapper on her. We have always ignored her bedtime whining unless it lasted a long time or gets louder. I guess that's somewhat inconsistent, but she generally always responded well to a firm "No!" and it was only sporatically necessary. We always let her out within 15-20 minutes of putting her in the crate. I don't think there have been any changes in drinking, but I will keep an eye out for any. I really like the suggestion to get her in the crate at times other than when we leave. Thanks a lot for the feedback, it gave me a lot to think about and made me feel better. And you're right, maybe little Squirt needs to make her way into the sig