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Op/Ed-Joe Biden loses Barack Obama the Catholic vote
I do not totally agree for not all Catholics are single issue voters, but it is an interesting piece-especially given the size of the voting block. If it is even just 1/4 of Catholics are one-issue voters, could spell bad news.
More, as promised, on Senator Joe Biden (why should Sarah Palin get all the coverage?). Remember, you read it here first: on September 11 this blog reported a mounting backlash from Catholic bishops against Biden, Barack Obama's "Catholic" pro-abortion running mate. At that time I estimated eight bishops had come out to denounce Biden; the total is now 55. Beyond that, Biden is being trashed across every state of the Union by Catholic newspapers, TV and radio stations, and blogs. It is a tsunami of rejection.
The story has now hit the secular media. Last Saturday Time magazine asked: "Does Biden Have a Catholic Problem?" By Wednesday the issue had moved onto the front page of the New York Times. Joe the Jinx has blown it, big time. Biden has only himself to blame: he started this war, with his notoriously undisciplined mouth. He knew the dangers. Last August, Archbishop Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St Louis and now Prefect of the Apostolic Segnatura in Rome, said communion should be denied to pro-abortion politicians "until they have reformed their lives".
Archbishop Chaput of Denver had already announced Biden should not receive communion because of his pro-abortion views. Defiantly, Biden took communion in his home parish in Delaware in late August. On September 2 the Bishop of Scranton, Pennsylvania (a crucial swing state) banned him from communion in his diocese. That is effective excommunication. Then came the crucial provocation. On NBC's Meet the Press programme on September 7 Biden grossly misrepresented the Catholic Church's teaching on abortion and audaciously cited St Thomas Aquinas in his own cause.
That did it. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had already done the same thing on the same programme, in her instance citing St Augustine. Even the torpid US bishops could not have false doctrine glibly broadcast by public figures, misleading their flock. So the counterattack described here last week began, culminating in a statement from the US Bishops' Conference. The bishops of Kansas City have also issued a pastoral letter on the subject. It is open season on Biden.
There are 47 million Catholic voters in the United States. One quarter of all registered voters are Catholics. At every presidential election in the past 30 years the Catholic vote has gone to the winning candidate, except for Al Gore in 2000. This year 41 per cent of Catholics are independents - up from 30 per cent in 2004. Psephologists claim practising Catholics were the decisive factor in the crucial swing states in 2004: in Ohio 65 per cent of Catholics voted for Bush, in Florida 66 per cent. They were drifting away in disillusionment from the Republicans and split 50-50, until Joe Biden worked his magic. This is electoral suicide by the Democrats.
Re: Op/Ed-Joe Biden loses Barack Obama the Catholic vote
www.metrobabyblog.com
Yeah I don't get it either. Did they expect Obama to pick a pro-life running mate? Even if it were Bayh, the head of the ticket is pro-choice. It sounds like they're somehow personally offended by Obama's pro-choice running mate being Catholic.
This article has a rather vitriolic tone for speaking about Catholics (I couldn't tell if the author is Catholic?).
Zoe - Catholics historically vote Democrat as a demographic.
Isn't The Telegraph a conservative publication, too. I looked at this guy's other posts and it's pretty clear that if he were American, he'd be a conservative.
Not that that discounts his opinion entirely, but he seems to have a certain bias against liberal-ness in general.
I would counter that with all Op/Ed writers are biased to one side or the other. It does not make their views wrong, though, based on that entirely or even partially.
Ditto. They wouldn't. I don't think this is an issue.
I will say this, though, (a) while I think it was exceptional DUMB for Biden to even attempt to speak on Church doctrine, much less misrepresent it, (b) I HATE that communion is denied politicans who openly support abortion rights. I support abortion rights as a public policy issue and don't mince words about it, as do many, many Catholics, and yet I receive communion.
And if we were to deny communion to those who did not follow the Church's overall teachings on conception, birth control and procreation, let's just say there would be a lot of surplus communion wafers out there.
I agree... I apologize if that wasn't particularly clear.
Still, I don't follow this guy's logic. It seems like he's arguing that Obama has lost the single-issue voters for picking a pro-choice candidate. But it seems highly unlikely that a single-issue abortion voter would vote for Obama anyway because he's pro-choice himself. If they really are single-issue voters, they wouldn't be swayed by other social justice issues.
I would say yes, but the point of Biden actually being Catholic holds him to a whole other standard, imo (and from what I am reading here). Not saying it is right, just what is playing into the issue moreso than it would normally.
Yeah I suppose this is what he's arguing, but I just don't see that logic. You'd think they'd be happy he's at least Catholic, if Obama had to pick a pro-choice running mate. But I don't pretend to understand the logic of single issue pro-life voters. I'll agree that they're a problem for OBC, but not sure what they can do about it.
Kerry had these same problems with Catholic Bishops in 2004 and he was on the top of the ticket, yet he still managed to win the Catholic vote without a pro-life running mate. I call nonsense on this op/ed.
This subject was treated much better by the NYT profiling those die hard Catholic Dems who voted for Kerry in 2004 and Clinton in the primaries. They aren't voting for Obama because of the abortion issue now. Even though it didn't bother them six months ago. You read between the lines on that one.
The problem I believe that the Obama camp thinks his being Catholic would be a big draw to Catholics. Not true in the case of this Catholic, and every Catholic I know. Sure there are a lot of Catholics out there getting communion while being in a state of sin (i.e. using birth control). The difference here is Biden is a public elected official who is Catholic. He is misrepresenting the Church's teachings, as has Pelosi. And he flat out got it wrong in relation to what he said referring to Thomas Aquinis' teachings (as has Pelosi). Kerry had a similar problem with the bishops for the same pro-choice stance.
I do know a lot of one-issue Catholic voters (abortion being the issue). Personally, I don't vote on abortion at all, though I am pro-life.?
I also find it hard to believe that Catholics traditionally vote democrat. I'm not saying it's not true - I've never looked at the numbers, but I find it very hard to believe especially regarding the Catholic circles that I know of.?
www.metrobabyblog.com
I would say the bolded is a big generalization. I think many have been shaken by the scandals, but to make this jump is not really supported, especially since Catholicism is growing.
Anyway, yes, Kerry is Catholic, but the abortion issue was not brought to the forefront as with Palin and her push for the Pro-Life platform. I know that with my anectodal evidence of dealing with many, many Catholics, it is different this time. I am not sure if it is all due to Biden being a strong supporter of pro-choice or if it is more Palin, but I am sure both play a role at some level.
Boo - we were hoping you'd popped.
I don't see that video or the site at the end having a particular party bias because it emphasizes how there can be people on both sides of the aisle working for the common good. It's more just asking Catholic voters to take what the church says into consideration when voting this November. In some races, this will be pro-democrat, but in others it will be pro-republican.
My guess is that Catholics that fully agree with Church teachings on abortion and the right to life will relate better to Palin (who isn't Catholic) than Biden (who is Catholic). Likewise, those Catholics that disagree with same Church teaching will relate better with Biden than Palin.
Seriously, you need a contact or something to tell us when you do!!
Does your husband have a text message list for friends & acquaintances to notify when if happens? If so, I have a 574 (Northern Indiana) number...
sbp - Keep us posted!
anyway, about the post. I'm way late on this, but I've read that historically the "Catholic vote" is a pretty big swing vote. I have a few friends that are very, very liberal Catholics - the kind more preoccupied with social justice (immigration, poverty), the death penalty, and ending war than they are with abortion. But on the other hand is the abortion and sex crowd. And then I think there's a bunch in the middle that dont' vote on either of those issues or they vote on all of those issues and are up for grabs. I think Bush did well in 2000 with them because of the "compassionate conservative" line. But I think Kerry won them in 2004 because of the war.
This is what I've read anyway. It'll be interesting who gets them this time around.
I don't remember if I posted here or on evil E08, but as a Catholic growing up in the Cuban American community (most of whom are GOP members), I was stunned to discover that most Catholics tend to vote Democratic, even knowing about JFK.
It wasn't until I had a conversation with our pastor in 2004 that I realized more Catholics voted DEM than I thought. I always assumed Catholics were single-issue voters in regards to abortion. Turns out, maybe it's my family and friends that fit that description.
I think that in regards to the Catholic vote, single issue voters that are primarily concerned with abortion are going to go MPC. I think those who aren't...will go OBC. This doesn't surprise me.
And I think it's a decent split. DH, two of my best friends (and their spouses) are all Catholic. We're all voting OBC. My parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles are all Catholic and voting MPC.
Maybe there are some generational things at play here too....
Priests have no choice but to deny communion to those who openly are not adhering to Catholic law (supporting abortion in this case) according to bishops. It's not at all out of the ordinary. If a priest knows you are in the state of sin, they can deny you communion. Our parish priest has done that on occasion. They have to. My internet is a little dodgy right now, so I can't look up what the pope has to say, but I found this:
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Rome, Aug 19, 2008 / 10:00 am (CNA).- The prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, Archbishop Raymond Burke, said this week that Catholics, especially politicians, who publically defend abortion should not receive Communion, and that ministers of Communion should be responsibly charitable in denying it to them if they ask for it, ?until they have reformed their lives.?In an interview with the magazine, Radici Christiane, Archbishop Burke pointed out that there is often a lack of reverence at Mass when receiving Communion.? ?Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ unworthily is a sacrilege,? he warned.? ?If it is done deliberately in mortal sin it is a sacrilege.?To illustrate his point, he referred to ?public officials who, with knowledge and consent, uphold actions that are against the Divine and Eternal moral law."? He then gave the example of politicians who "support abortion, which entails the taking of innocent and defenseless human lives.? A person who commits sin in this way should be publicly admonished in such a way as to not receive Communion until he or she has reformed his life,? the archbishop said.?If a person who has been admonished persists in public mortal sin and attempts to receive Communion, the minister of the Eucharist has the obligation to deny it to him. Why? Above all, for the salvation of that person, preventing him from committing a sacrilege,? he added.?We must avoid giving people the impression that one can be in a state of mortal sin and receive the Eucharist.?He explained that when the person is allowed to receive Communion, a second form of scandal consists: ?leading people to think that the public act that this person is doing,? a sin, ?which until now everyone believed was a serious sin, is really not that serious.???If we have a public figure who is openly and deliberately upholding abortion rights and receiving the Eucharist, what will the average person think? He or she could come to believe that up to a certain point it is okay to do away with an innocent life in the mother?s womb,? he warned.Archbishop Burke also noted that when a bishop or a Church leader prevents an abortion supporter from receiving Communion, ?it is not with the intention of interfering in public life but rather with the concern of the spiritual state of the politician or public official who, if Catholic, should follow the divine law in the public sphere as well.??Therefore, it is simply ridiculous and wrong to try to silence a pastor, accusing him of interfering in politics so that he cannot do good to the soul of a member of his flock,? he stated.It is ?simply wrong? to think that the faith must be reduced to the private sphere and eliminated from public life, Archbishop Burke said, encouraging Catholics ?to bear witness to our faith not only in private in our homes but also in our public lives with others in order to bear strong witness to Christ.?
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?http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13562
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Wether you agree with it or not, I hope that sheds some light on why priests deny communion to pro-choice politicians. ?
www.metrobabyblog.com
Regardless of how individual Catholics feel about legal abortion, the Church is very clear about it:
The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80 "The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81
Whether we choose to agree with this part of the Church's teaching is another story.
The above comes from the Catechism. Why would you state that it is not doctrine? Furthermore, I have never heard of "licit dissent" with respect to Catholic teaching. Could you please provide support for such a term within the Catholic Church?