August 2006 Weddings
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Shoshie - re: Palin & Israel
I know you're infinitely knowledgeable about the situation and the issue is much more important to you than many others, so I was wondering if you have heard the portion of the Katie Couric interview about Israel and what your thoughts on it are.
My immediate inclination is to be scared, but since I am relatively uninformed on the topic, I'm hoping you or someone with the knowledge could help me.
Re: Shoshie - re: Palin & Israel
Elizabeth-- I haven't had a chance to see any of the interview. If you have a link to that portion, please post it.
Zoe -- no, but I appreciate that they both think so highly of us.
If you can point me to the link, I can respond better.
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
Is this the part you mean (c&p from a transcript)
Couric: You met yesterday with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who is for direct diplomacy with both Iran and Syria. Do you believe the U.S. should negotiate with leaders like President Assad and Ahmadinejad?
Palin: I think, with Ahmadinejad, personally, he is not one to negotiate with. You can't just sit down with him with no preconditions being met. Barack Obama is so off-base in his proclamation that he would meet with some of these leaders around our world who would seek to destroy America and that, and without preconditions being met. That's beyond na?ve. And it's beyond bad judgment.
Couric: Are you saying Henry Kissinger ?
Palin: It's dangerous.
Couric: ? is na?ve for supporting that?
Palin: I've never heard Henry Kissinger say, "Yeah, I'll meet with these leaders without preconditions being met." Diplomacy is about doing a lot of background work first and shoring up allies and positions and figuring out what sanctions perhaps could be implemented if things weren't gonna go right. That's part of diplomacy.
Couric: You recently said three times that you would never, quote, "second guess" Israel if that country decided to attack Iran. Why not?
Palin: We shouldn't second guess Israel's security efforts because we cannot ever afford to send a message that we would allow a second Holocaust, for one. Israel has got to have the opportunity and the ability to protect itself. They are our closest ally in the Mideast. We need them. They need us. And we shouldn't second guess their efforts.
Couric: You don't think the United States is within its rights to express its position to Israel? And if that means second-guessing or discussing an option?
Palin: No, abso ? we need to express our rights and our concerns and ?
Couric: But you said never second guess them.
Palin: We don't have to second-guess what their efforts would be if they believe ? that it is in their country and their allies, including us, all of our best interests to fight against a regime, especially Iran, who would seek to wipe them off the face of the earth. It is obvious to me who the good guys are in this one and who the bad guys are. The bad guys are the ones who say Israel is a stinking corpse and should be wiped off the face of the earth. That's not a good guy who is saying that. Now, one who would seek to protect the good guys in this, the leaders of Israel and her friends, her allies, including the United States, in my world, those are the good guys.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/25/eveningnews/main4479062.shtml
Caden,
Thank you for posting.
Elizabeth -- is that the section you were referencing?
In which case, I agree with her assessment.
1) No meeting without preconditions
2) Expressing an opinion is fine; but don't second guess:
Damn straight.
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
You'd really think after Kissinger, Baker, Albright, Powell and Christopher said talks without pre-conditions with both countries = good, the McCain camp might start to soften up a bit on that point.
I mean, Kissinger! The guy's no pansy, effete, cultural-relativist liberal who wants to save the world by talking!
Shadowboxer, remind me ... is that "working things out" thing before or after Israel's enemies send the funds so that someone can "diplomatically" blow up teens at a disco or people having lunch at a restaurant?
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
Why should he? Even Obama has abandoned that misguided position.
I wish Obama hadn't flip-flopped. He was pushed into a corner by people ridiculing his position and then surprise--the entire brain trust of American diplomacy agrees with his original position!!
If we didn't "talk" to state sponsors of terror or states who sponsor killing of innocents or otherwise violate basic human rights, there would be no countries left for us to speak with. Maybe Iceland, maybe.
Talk =/= meeting without preconditions. We can talk without bending over backwards for people who spit our face and the faces of our allies.
I wish we could set some preconditions with Israel if we're to keep them as allies, too.
I really don't get this "defend Israel at all costs" nonsense. They are no innocent party.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I completely agree.
There are NO other allies of ours that any American politician would say "we shouldn't second-guess them." We do not give ANY other ally carte blanche to do whatever they want, regardless of how much it costs the US or how dangerous it makes the world (forgetting entirely about say, human rights violations).
What's this *if* business?
Fenton, you do stand up for your friends right? Do you put preconditions on them, too?
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
I know this whole thing might be hard to digest. Let me put it into different terms, and maybe you'll understand my frustration with those who say talking to terrorists is a good thing:
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
First, I don't think Israel is some poor kid getting beat up on by stronger kids. More like the little kid whose older brother is the captain of the football team.
But, yes, I do have conditions on my friends. If they act like asses, they won't be my friends any longer.
Fine -- and the stronger kids are captains of the boxing team, the wrestling team and the weightlifting team
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
I had to run off to a super long meeting, but I wanted to chime in again and say thanks for your input, Shoshie.
I already feel a tiny bit more educated on the topic.
Oh, and if you're interested in the video, here's a link:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26palin.israel.comments.cnn
Definitely before...before it even gets to that point.
Standing up for you friend usually doesn't involve getting killed or involving others who will also be killed.
Too late. Any other suggestions?
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *
Funny you should use Krav as part of your example b/c I've learned some of it. You don't use Krav preemptively. You use Krav when you are cornered and then you do whatever you need to to survive. If that were the case, the next time I ran into Palin in a dark alley, I'd use my Krav on her b/c I see her as a threat to my rights. See the logic problem?
I do if you are comparing Palin to Iran.
Do you run into her often in dark alleys?
Adam & Shoshie 10-21-07: "My family is big and loud and everybody's in each other's lives and business. ... but wherever I go, they will always be there." * My Blog: Tales of a Hopeful Jewish Mom to Be *