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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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S/O Healthcare Bill
I'm embarrased to admit I haven't been paying attention. I listened to the debates and read lots of info over the past year but I have no idea what ended up in the final bill. I just got tired of it and stopped listening. Tell me what's in it!
I just read this as a potential problem:
Another reader used sarcasm to suggest that people will find a way around paying premiums. "This is cool. I'm just going to drop my insurance now, pay the $700 yearly fine, and then pickup insurance when I get sick since insurance companies can't deny me," he wrote on the Sound Off section of a CNN.com news story published after the bill passed. "I'll save a bundle of money every year."
Re: S/O Healthcare Bill
It's a gradual thing over the next few years. I think one of the first big things is that people with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied. Eventually parents will be able to cover their children up to age 26 - this makes sense to me considering I was in school until almost 27. If I hadn't been able to get the cheap grad school insurance I would have gone without. Lots of people do either get advanced degrees, or take a bit longer than 4 years to graduate.
Eventually this will affect some people's taxes - if all goes as planned it shouldn't affect anyone who makes less than 250K a year. We will be able to keep our own insurance, and a public option was not included in the final bill (I'm disappointed in that aspect, I think it would have forced health insurance companies to bring down their costs - now it's tough to say how this will work). Eventually everyone will be required to pay for health insurance just like we do car insurance. Since car insurance works for the most part, I have hope that this can work too. Most people are law abiding citizens not looking to get away with whatever they can. People who make low incomes will be able to pay less - however we're currently paying for their health care anyway, so I see how we can keep taxes down despite this
(my sister's over 11K hospital bill recently with no insurance was 100% financed by the hospital - we are paying for things like this right now. She will be required to pay for health insurance, but she will be provided it at a rate she can handle unlike now).
I'm embarrassed to admit the same thing. I honestly tried paying attention, but UGH, it's just too much!
I haven't read the article you linked to yet, but it's crazy if people can actually get away with that! Hopefully there will be some way to catch them or do something to prevent this from happening.
I'm so confused about a lot of it. Did the mandate thing pass? If so, I don't like that. Even though ideally I want everyone in our country to have great healthcare, I don't want it forced on me "or else".
Why is it so stinking huge? I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff in there, but couldn't we release it one piece at a time? I'm assuming no, since it would take too long to vote on each piece individually.
I'm glad that people can't get denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. After being a caseworker, I was a Medicaid specialist in a large hospital in St. Louis. I can't tell you how many times I took Medicaid apps on good, hardworking people who didn't really even want to apply, but their insurance dropped them, they already sold the farm to pay their bills (literally), and have no other options.
So much craziness!
Ok, that all makes sense. As a law abiding citizen, I would not try to get out of it. I like being an honest person. You addressed a lot of my reservations. I didn't really understand the point since there are provisions for people who are low income/without health care already in place.
ETA: I just wanted to add that insurance companies can't deny you because of a pre-existing condition in Maryland.
I am so going to regret replying to this one, but I can't contain myself. If you don't agree with me - I totally respect informed opinions.
I can't fully get into this here because (1) I'm afraid many people would hate me by the time I stepped off my soap box (2) it just makes me way too upset.
I will say this bill has so many holes in it, it's ridiculous. The wording in the bill is so incredibly vague that now the gov't has to further explain things - which means they can make the bill say almost whatever they want... which means we basically handed over our rights. Whatever. *blood pressure rising*
I work for a small business. The owners are good people. The employees are good people. This bill is not good, it is going to hurt the company I work for & many others. The president keeps saying there will be credits for small businesses, but the way that was written into the bill, it basically only covers 12% of ALL small businesses in the country, and at that it's so confusingly written that many of those companies may not even qualify.
The company I work for is a construction company, and they play by the rules. For some reason the people who wrote this bill hate construction companies because in the bill it states that construction companies are going to have to pay more. It's just so ridiculous.
And this bill doesn't cover everyone. This bill covers 95% of the countries citizens, so I want someone to answer me - who are the 5% this won't cover? Why don't they matter like everyone else?
I will finish my diatribe by once again stating that when the Speaker of the House says on national tv "Pass it, then we'll show you what's in it." That is NOT ok. Seriously. Regardless if you're a Dem, Repub, Independant, Green Party - who cares! That statement alone should enrage everyone.
Ok. Done. & Yes this was me not fully getting into it.
btw - single and/or married people without kids will pay higher taxes. As per usual. Of course, because people without kids don't matter. (that was sarcasm, but seriously... ridic.)
Plus in all seriousness - how are poor people going to afford health insurance? This bill requires people to buy insurance. This bill does not say anything about regulating what insurance companies can charge. If someone can barely afford groceries, how are they going to afford insurance?
There are bills and resolutionsin many state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional admendmants. I know TN is one of them. I *think* (and I could be wrong here) and it's changing it so you won't be forced to purchase health care if you can't afford it.
Yeah I have heard that also. The thing is that there is a law (I can't put my finger on it right this second) that was passed, which actually makes what the gov't is trying to do unconstitutional. The gov't can't make people pay fines for not buying health insurance. That's the part of the bill that sent me over the edge, to be honest. Do I think everyone deserves health care? Sure. Unfortunately the US was founded on the people having a choice, and this bill takes that choice away. That's just wrong, and it's a slippery slope.
I don't hate people for opposing views
We all have different life experiences that make us see things in certain ways. I have the situation of an uninsured sister who I was losing sleep over wondering how she would handle her hospital bills recently and my cousin's mother in law who was denied health insurance for a pre-existing condition, and then unrelated to that developed colon cancer. and my uninsured sister would be able to afford some health insurance, just not at the rate she could buy it at today.
There are plenty of imperfections with the bill - I personally think it's a step in the right direction but know that others disagree.
If this sounds totally b!tchy, I'm sorry, I don't intend it to be!
I think it's a step in the right direction, I just think there are several wrong turns in the bill. Does that make sense?
Do we need to do something about health care? Yes. Lets reform & regulate health insurance companies. I knew there was a reason health insurance companies weren't up in arms over this bill, & it's because the bill doesn't make them do anything... other than cover people with pre-existing conditions - at whatever rates they choose.
I have a very close friend who is dying of breast cancer because she never had insurance and was afraid of how much going on her own would cost. I support health care for all... Lord knows if she had it, things may be different for her, but this bill just isn't right in my eyes.
I agree that it isn't enough and I wish that health insurance companies were held more responsible - I'm a big proponent of the public option because that would mean that the gov't would be competing with the companies and the industry would be forced to bring their costs to a more reasonable rate. However, people in general were freaked out about that aspect of the bill, and it couldn't pass with it in it. I hope that over time things continue to move forward and that they work to eliminate wasteful spending by insurance companies - but I think that something did need to be done now to at least move forward.
This exactly!
This.
My dad is a small business owner and its really going to hurt him in the long run.
Not only that but I think it was totally wrong when they removed tort reform from the buill which would reduce med-mal insurance thus helping to reduce costs. PA has a very high Med Mal insurance and when I was living in Pittsburgh found out if you were pregnant in 1 out laying town the nearest OBGYN was over an HOUR away (this is right outside of Pittsburgh) so if you were a high risk pregnancyand heaven forbid something went wrong you have a long way to travel to get proper medical attention.
This is the part I have a problem with.
I have a real problem with that also. The fact that people make a lot of money shouldn't mean that we get to use them as ATM machines.
THANK YOU!!
I agree with Becky that this bill is a step in the right direction. It's certainly far from perfect, and the insurance companies do need to be held accountable, and I believe the whole cost structure that forces us to need insurance in the first place needs to be revised - big time. But I do think it's a step in the right direction.
As someone who lives in a state where we have been required to have insurance for the past few years, I must say, it's working pretty well. Of course people were up in arms about it at first, but overall, it's working well because there are so many options for those at low-income levels.
Nancy herself said "You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it". And she meant it, she wasn't being sarcastic. There are so many things in this bill (wasn't the final bill 2300 pages or something like that?). And I don't know a single person who voted on it who admitted actually reading it. Health care reform is more of a book of ideas at this point, they just needed the go ahead to start implementing them. Slowly we will learn what's in it. Which will either mean wonderful things for our health care, or drive us straight into a sh*t hole so deep it'll take generations to dig out of it. Most likely it'll be somewhere in between.
I think SOMETHING needed to happen and happen fast. I just am very wary of a bill that has that many pages that no one has actually read and required bribes in order to pass. Also the current governments hate of anyone who works hard and has money to show for it bothers me. I am not rich, I made a whopping $1,500 in 2009 thanks to my shoulder injury. But I don't feel entitled to anything and don't think of you ladies who work your tails off to take care of your families should have to take care of me in any way.
Here's my thought on this - people who make more money are still living MUCH better than those at the bottom, and we already have a system in place where the percent tax you pay increases on your higher earnings, so this is nothing new, and nothing unique to the democratic party (the republicans have not tried to push a flat tax). It may be a different rate, but the same system. Also, as someone who made (as a couple) 100K more in 2009 than did in 2008, I can tell you that a tiny increase in taxes really does not change the quality of our life and we would still live MUCH better that those who make less than us. Because I started out at a low income and went a period without health insurance I understand that people should not have to do this, and I'm willing to pay a bit more in taxes for health care, just as I'm find with paying taxes for education and national defense.
I am actually more upset about tax rebates and credits going towards home owners - b/c while i see health care as something that should be a right, I do not see owning a home as a right. I don't own, and I will not do so until I have a 20% downpayment, extra savings, and am sure of where I want to settle for the long term - I don't see why others can't be as responsible in that decision. I also agree more with my taxes going to health care than tax breaks for child care - again, having a child is a choice you make and that's another thing we're putting off until it is a more responsible choice (as you can see, I'm very conservative in my own life financially!). To me, it makes no sense why people get tax breaks and credits for these life choices, and not for something as basic as health care.
Becky- boy do I ever agree with the above!
I suppose it's because here in Canada we're a) used to paying high taxes in proportion to our income b) recognize that monies collected in part go toward less fortunate in our society to even out some inequities and c) that in my chosen profession i was technically 'capped' by the government in earnings unless I moved into a practice not covered by the government health care- ie: private or elective.
I get people being upset by high taxes but usually when you add it all together it tends to be relatively proportionate in terms of income earned percentages- it's not as if anyone has a pay ceiling and the the government collects the excess- which, if that was the case, I'd understand being ticked off by.
Besides, most people in very high income brackets utilize smart money tactics to shelter their earnings and diversify in ways to avoid being taxed through the nose.
I'm sorry, but you still haven't said anything that explains why it's OK to treat those people as ATM machines, which is exactly what the Dem's continually try to do. History has proven that doesn't work. History has proven that when those people get sick of being treated that way, the gov't makes less money in taxes. It just doesn't work. It's only a way for Democrats to pit poor people against rich people, IMNHO. The same thing happened in the 20's. The gov't tried to raise taxes, and people were sick of it so they found ways around paying them. The same thing is happening in CA right now. CA keeps raising taxes, so people are hiding their money... doing anything to keep what they earned. Sure there are dishonest people mixed in there, but you can hardly say that the majority are cheats. The majority are just hard working people who are tired of the gov't taking, taking, taking. It's not right. And for what? For people to have health care? For the gov't to say they're right, & we're wrong? For the gov't to "give" "everyone" health care without having to actually do anything or make any sacrifices on their end. Yep, that's the one.
Pass a health care bill Congressman have to use. Funny how they all could use this one, but they won't. Hell, why would they? They get it all for free and it's top notch... it even covers cosmetic surgery. Now that's the plan I want! Free & all inclusive. Woo!
People do have to do something - my sister who doesn't have health insurance this year and had an over 11K hospital bill had it financed 100% under our CURRENT plan. Under the new plan, she will be required to at least pay something into the health care system, but it will be on a sliding fee so that she'll actually be able to afford it. So there's that.
the gov't gives people education because it's the right thing to do. I think that health care is on the same level. I disagree with plastic surgery and if I could have written the bill it would have looked different.I don't think it's perfect.
And a question for you - how can we make this country work so that people who make more money are not paying higher taxes? This isn't just a health care debate, this is how our country currently works. If everyone paid a flat rate, how much would that be? How would that be enforced? How could someone with no money pay anything? How should things that are paid for by the gov't that are necessary be covered if people who make more don't pay more?
I suppose I also work under the assumption that most people want to be working and do not want to sit at home and milk the gov't. I certainly am not jealous of those living off the gov't completely - it doesn't look very fun!
I agree with everything you said. I wouldn't mind the additional taxes if they were used properly. Over the past several years they have added $4 tax to pack of cigarettes in Maryland. Every increase was supposed to be used directly for education. Just yesterday the major of Baltimore started talking about budget cuts because schools don't have enough money. She is talking about laying off 120 policemen and 90 firefighters. Great idea. Baltimore is so safe we can do without them.
We also, have payed an additional tax on our electric bills for over 10 years. All money to be used for Chesapeake Bay clean-up. A few months ago they started talking about raising this tax. It came out, shortly after, that they haven't spent one dime of that money on the Bay. I don't like being lied to.
All great and valid points raised- I think the larger issue at play here is that every and all levels of government need to be held accountable!
Obviously, this is a given but we all know so much of what is said versus what is delivered are often complete opposites.
My main point was that just making rich people pay more in taxes doesn't work. It's been proven not to work. My husband and I don't even make that much money, for the area we live in we are actually not even middle class. Unfortunately (?) we are also not poor enough to actually qualify for anyone in the gov't to give 2 cents about us. So I'm sorry, if you thought I was personally attacking you - I wasn't - I just wanted a clear answer about why rich people should always pay more. It's also been proven that lets say the gov't did a flat tax of 10% - rich people would pay more, and poorer people would pay less overall. For some reason people freak the eff out at the prospect of everyone paying the same %, even though that would actually help everyone.
I don't have a problem with helping out fellow, hard working citizens. Maybe I am a little extreme in my views, but in my personal situation in the recent past the gov't has done nothing to help us, and I see people all around me just milking the system for all it's worth. So maybe I am a little disenfranchised, but that's where I'm coming from. I'm tired of helping people who don't deserve my help. I live in CA and things suck here, it's hard for to see good in anything any level of government does anymore.
This was an interesting read to come home to ladies, and frankly, its odd, being from Canada, we don't need to worry about it. I get cancer, I get treatment, I break my leg, it gets fixed, I get in a horrific car accident, I get help. I pay a crazy amount of taxes, and I hate looking at my pay statement, but I dont need to worry about footing a hospital bill if i get hit by a drunk driver on my way home.
You guys all raised good points. I remember learning in a social studies or sociology class, that in canada (I think - it may have been north america) that three percent of the population controlled something like 70% of the money. That is just crazy.
I am a teacher - I believe that every child has the same right to healthcare - whether they are the child of a man who works at a minimum paying job, or the child of a CEO.
When I was nine, my dad left my mom and our family. She had spent her years our of high school working, so my dad could go to university. They got married, she had kids, and when he walked out to his new girlfriends house, leaving her with three kids, and no post secondary education, and no specialized skills, there would have been no way she would have been able to afford health insurance. I wonder what our life would have been like if we had lived in the states, for the few years it took her get an education and a minimal paying job.
So.. I'm not really saying anything - I totally see both sides. I think its a step in the right direction, but I always think of the bottom 20% of the population, which always makes for spirited debates with DH, who thinks the opposite.