August 2006 Weddings
caden
member
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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So the economy still sucks post-bailout?
I know you're all stunned. 
I'm laughing at how many senators fell all over themselves rushing to the microphone to take credit for staving off Armageddon. And now that the stock market is still tanking the media are just calling it "Bush's plan," even though Paulson's plan was flatly rejected for this "new and improved" version. I can't wait until they turn on each other and it becomes a human zoo scene a la Mean Girls. Does anyone think the Congress will have the balls to sit back and do nothing while the economy gets worse, one month before the election? I don't. They couldn't even get through the 1st quarter without a stimulus package and that wasn't nearly as bad as this.
Re: So the economy still sucks post-bailout?
what else can they do? There is only so much money they can throw at this problem.
Everything about this is clusterfuck defined. And this morning on the Today show, that financial guy they have on all the time (can't remember his name; he screams a lot) said that anyone who doesn't need their money within the next 5 years should liquidate everything they have in the stock market, regardless of the loss they'll take. I'm no economist, but that strikes me as just the kind of advice we should take if we want to see the market fantastically go down in flames once and for all.
Las Vegas GTG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't understand, caden. I thought you supported the bailout? While I hoped the market would respond more positively after it passed, there's a lot of bad news on the employment and European economies' fronts that are dampening that positive factor.
I don't think anyone thought the economy would be rosy after the bill was signed into law; just that things wouldn't get as bad as they otherwise might. "What if's" are forever unproveable, so it's impossible to know how the economy would have fared without the bailout, but I don't think one should assume the bailout was a failure based on the market's immediate response or a continued decline in the economy.
As for an additional stimulus package, I certainly hope that doesn't happen. I assume Congressional reps are heading back to their constituencies to campaign soon and won't have time to do much damage, right?
p.s. McCain was among the senators "stumbling for the microphone" to take credit for saving the day a couple of weeks ago, remember?
I was thinking (hoping) that we've stopped bleeding and that it'd be a slow recovery.
Then the Dow dropped this morning and the Mad Money guy said that if you'll be needing the money you have in the market in the coming years, take it out and put it elsewhere for the next 5 years no matter what the status was and predicted an additional 20% drop in the Dow.
I don't think there is anything for the Govt to do or anything left to do but ride it out. If we're lucky, the super rich and the large companies that aren't hurting too bad now will invest for cheap, buy smaller companies for cheap and that fresh capital will help spur on the economy.
This was the Mad Money guy I also semi-quoted, he followed up with if you have the time to ride it out and are not on the verge or retirement then leave your money in the market.
I do support the concept of a bailout. I didn't support the senate version. No one thought the bailout was a magic wand. But I don't think anyone thought the stock market would plummet more after the bailout than before. Unless maybe they just waited too long and it was too late by that point. I didn't read anything about that though.
p.s. Why did you post that about McCain? I said "senators." I didn't say "only democrats" or "only obama." Just curious why you had to make this partisan. You post sounds very defensive.
caden - You're right; that was partisan, and I apologize. I think I let my feelings towards some of your other posts re: last week in Congress spill over into this one a didn't view the thread with an open mind. I'll admit it.
??? I think we all have biases in our posts---why just point out Caden? I guess because she is not liberal or a Dem?
Anyway, yeah, knock me over with a feather. I am so shocked. I don't know if I would take anything Cramer says to heart---he is also the one who stated that Bear Stearns was fine, leave your money there? Yup, found it:
3/17/2008 After Bear Stearns? collapse, Jim Cramer: ?I said the common stock was worthless on Friday.?
3/11/2008 Before Bear Stearns? collapse, Jim Cramer: ?Bear Stearns is fine ? Bear Stearns is not in trouble. Don?t be silly ? Don?t move your money
I do think that for the next few years, many 401ks and 403bs will be in dire straights, but I don't see it as a permanent problem. This bailout is not worth the paper it is printed on. It is full of earmarks that should have been taken out and where are we going to get the money? Oh yeah, probably a country that loves us.
I agree with Caden--especially if Obama wins--I am positive he has stated we should have another round of checks to help the economy. Woo hoo, I hope everyone that gets one buys another flat screen tv or whatever (sorry, but the first round ticked me off with Bush and now another possibility?
I thought she was referring to my previous posts that blamed democrats for the economic crisis, not my personal bias. If she blamed my bias then whatever to that.
I do blame (mostly) democrats for the failure of freddie/fannie. It's impossible to do otherwise when it was democrats that defended them and blocked republican reforms. I blame mostly Greenspan/the Fed for the housing bubble. I blame Carter/Clinton and congress for the CRA and the pressure to lend to low-income homeowners that exacerbated the housing bubble. But both parties in the senate are to blame for the bailout. Not that it's the most awful bill ever passed, but it wasn't as good as it could have been. The Republicans did an ok job at getting rid of the worst provisions, but they didn't have a good organized attack (well maybe the House did but they lost their nerve) and they suffer from a serious lack of quality leadership.
This is scarier than before the bailout - what happens when a necessary bailout doesn't stop the bleeding? There's no hope of a bailout on the horizon this time.
I didn't expect it to be a magic wand either, and I was thinking about this during NPR's coverage on the way to work this morning - if it's only supposed to keep the absolute worst from happening, it will never be appreciated for that in light of a still-happening crisis.
But I think there was supposed to be a better reaction than this. Jim Cramer's the guy zelda and Mr.P are referring to. Apparently the guy made himself boatloads of money, but sometimes I really wonder if it was shear dumb luck. He's been on the gov't for months to do something (complete with a creepy on-air meltdown), and now that they do, he's encouraging panic.
A second stimulus could happen. If not, it's because they're all terrified and just want to dump it on the new Congress/president and pray they're still around to help.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I'm with Fenton. What would the market have looked like today without the bailout? Yikes.
I really think it's going to take more than a couple of days and some legislation to get people calmed back down again. It will happen...but I never thought it'd happen overnight.
Scary times though - my freaking IRA lost 20% this year already.