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Ugh, dreading the money talk with DH
As I aluded to in a post below, I've been working on our household budget in advance of TTC. I don't think we save enough now and knowing that daycare expenses will be around $1000/month alone I knew the budget would need some work.
Turns out we'll need to cut our monthly allowances (lunches out, haircuts, clothing, anything fun we do w/o the other) and our going out (entertainment and eating out together) budgets in half. We'll also be cutting back our grocery budget by 20%, cutting our "Everything Else" budget (incidental, non-monthly expenses like car/house repair, oil changes, pet expenses, non-grocery home purchases, dr visits) by 40%, and cutting our car fuel bill by 25% by carpooling at least twice a week. Oh, and going down to the basic Netflix plan and finding more discounts on auto insurance, though that isn't a huge savings.
I am really not looking forward to presenting this to DH. He doesn't think he gets enough "allowance" as it is and complains that he has to spend it on haircuts when I get my (bi-yearly) haircuts for free at work. And he has this grand idea that he's been talking about for years now that he wants to upgrade our entertainment system and get new speakers, a new receiver, a new TV stand, and eventually a new TV. I want him to be happy, but I don't see how it's going to happen. He just doesn't understand that we can't always get what we want. (Though I admit, we splurged on our recent car purchase. We can afford it, but it definitely wasn't the sensible choice.) Not only that, but we have been putting off some major repairs to our house (hello, cracked foundation) that aren't going to fix themselves.
How do you guys broach money topics with your DH when you know he isn't going to like what he hears?
Also, when I posted my budget on the Money Matters board for an honest critique... one of the MM girls went as far as to say that we shouldn't be TTC right now. It was hard to hear... REALLY hard to hear. But I'm afraid she's probably right.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
Re: Ugh, dreading the money talk with DH
I cry! Make it seem bigger/worse then it needs to be, then he's not so concerned when I hit him with the details. At least, that's how it happened when we last had our money talk.
It's nice to have your finances in line and to have a plan. But it wont kill you to not be completely ready. Something always comes up. That's life. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Even most of the MMers will tell you that there is never a right time and money shouldn't be the reason you hold back on your life. You way overestimated on a lot of parts of your budget and will probably have more savings than you think. And compared to a TON of people (myself included) you are saving a good amount now.
As far as the talk with your DH, I don't have a lot of advice. But wish you luck!
My Bio (wedding pics added 7/6)
My 101
I think my DH dreads the "money talk" with me. He's so amazingly savings oriented and he's worked up a budget where we can save all of my monthly paychecks (with the exception of about $400).
I'm trying to think how he brought up the budget to me... I think it was a spreadsheet. He showed me what we could save weekly/monthly/annually. Those numbers excited me - and I was willing to give the budget that he had created to make those savings a reality.
We are saving for our futures before we TTC. We (read: he... and I am on board) set a number ($xx,xxxx) to have in our savings account before we TTC. This number will allow us enough to breathe easy, and know that we're financialy secure to start that journey. Although I would love to start ttc now, it's not the right time. I know people say that there is never a 'right' time - but when you have the opportunity to build your savings/reduce debts I think it's wise to take advantage of them. You've got time on your side.
Maybe bring it up to your DH as "okay... you want x,y,z, and I want a,b, and to ttc... our budget now allows us to do this in x months, but if we cut things down we can do it in x months, or if we get really frugal, we can do it in x months". Giving options and a little flexibility to a budget makes it much more appealing and realistic (for me).
Again, I know for sure how hard it is to see the TTC date and feel how far away that is, but every month that we add to our savings I see us getting closer. Maybe it's the goal oriented part of me that loves to race?? Who knows. fwiw, DH and I have beed following a detailed budget for a year now and we're still probably about 18 months from our target savings amount that will give the green light for ttc. It's hard, but I'm trying to remember we're doing our best to set up the best household for ourselves and financial future for our family...
I hope that helps and isn't too downer!! Just trying to share my experiences! Good luck in whatever you guys decide.
"The House We Built."
A journey of building the dream.
...maybe I missed something, but I'm confused.
"The House We Built."
A journey of building the dream.
Hahahaha. I'm sorry, I didn't mean you (or anyone specifically)!!
You know what I mean though. I know there are people in financial situations far worse than ours that have made it work. But whenever someone IRL says that to me I feel like they're either leaving out and not doing justice to all the sacrifices they had to make... or they're glazing over the fact that their parents helped buy their house/car/trust fund. To me anyway, money isn't just something that you hope will all work out in the end. Our choices haven't been 100% sensible in the past and it will take hard work and sacrifice to get us to where we need to be, not to mention where we want to be.
So to update, I did have the talk with DH when he got home (before I read your responses... I had just typed out the OP when he came in). He reacted exactly the way I thought he would. He said it wasn't realistic, that we couldn't live like that, that he refused to live like that, that we couldn't afford a baby...
...that's when I broke down and started bawling. Like uncontrollably. I'm tearing up as we speak.
Long story short, he agreed to try. But he still wants his haircuts taken out of his allowance money. I said we'd see.
We didn't talk about if we actually are going to start TTC this summer or if we're going to wait a year. I guess maybe we'll see how the next couple of months goes with the Interim budget and see if we think we can stick to it. The carpooling is going to be tricky though. And he wants to go to grad school next spring.
So yeah... it went about as well as could be expected. I think I need to go watch some Glee to cheer myself up...
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
Oh, that was from the MM board... after people started telling me I was on crack I addressed some of their points and questions and then added that at the end. I'm just frustrated. Not at anyone, just at the situation.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
Honestly, in the very least you two need to be on the same page finacially before you ttc. Finances are a huge deal breaker in lots of relationships so maintaining healthy ideals on finances is key (in my opinion). Not that you guys are headed in that direction. I guess I just always try to keep that in mind.
Adding the stress of a newborn, and the new financial obligations that come with that baby are enough to make postponing ttc make sense for a lot of people. Of course you and your DH could make it work if you poas tomorrow and it was positive... but is that really what you want (just being able to make it work)?
Again, these are only questions you and your DH can answer together. I certainly don't have it all together with our finances, but I've been learning a lot as time goes on and have thankfully adopted a more clear perspective on our own goals and what it takes to attain them.
Once again, good luck with these tough choices!
"The House We Built."
A journey of building the dream.
I think that's bullsh!t. There are so many people there that have kids when they aren't really financially "ready" (are we ever, *really*?).
I think the bigger issue is not that you would have to cut back on a bunch of stuff, because that would happen automatically, but it's that he seems to have an issue with it. There's no doubt that people have to give things up to have babies, but hopefully both parties are willing. I think that's the important undertone to your post. It seems that your DH is still holding back on wanting to give up something of his for something of yours (as in a collective the two of you). Not that it's a bad thing, just something that will need to be figured out before TTC. (this is all before reading your updated post, by the way). I hope that you got to at least talk things through and maybe were able to get some more information on his point of view.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm not convinced that he's ready to give up our DINK lifestyle. But he's willing to start the Interim budget starting with June so I guess that's good. We still have a few details to work out but I'm hopeful.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
cia - We actually use mint.com as well. When I say "we" I mean "I" because DH refuses to look at it because he half-jokingly says I'm cooking the books and the numbers aren't right. True, Mint was really really screwy for a few months when they were rolling out the new features. Made keeping track of our allowances (which rollover if we haven't spent the money from the past month) impossible. They seem to have fixed that issue though. But yeah, DH doesn't look at it. The only numbers he sees are the monthly bills that he is in charge of paying and the checking account.
We went over our current budget together again at the beginning of January when we purchased my car. The budget was based on actual spending over our history on Mint (about 2 years). Usually DH is really good at saving his allowance, but the last two months he's been blowing through it and borrowing from future months. And we've gone way over our Going Out budget since we've taken 3 trips to Austin lately, bought tickets to Conan, and DH planned an expensive "man shower" weekend for his buddy who's wife just had a baby. Oh and we had a lot of home expenses and pet expenses too. It just got away from us. But it needed revising anyway if we were going to ever fit daycare into our budget. Finding that extra $1000 wasn't easy, but I think we've got a solution that will help us save better in the meantime.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
You're a much better person than me! I definitely need to get a grip on our reality and write out a budget. I semi-keep a spreadsheet of all debts and savings, but that's only updated when we want to evaluate our current position. DH does comprehensive budgeting before we get involved with new houses, but that's about it.
And I support the long-term car perspective. DSS is barely fitting into the back seat of my car anymore. I'm trying to decide between buying another car that will get me by until I can afford what I really want, or just going all-out now and keeping it much longer-term.
It sounds like you are on top of things but that your DH has dropped the ball. Has something happened in the last two months that would explain why he's no longer saving his allowance? [aside from the expenses you mentioned -- or are those coming out of his allowance?] Is he resentful that you got a nice new car and he didn't get anything comparable? [not saying he should be, but sometimes these things are deep-seated in our subconscious and are hard to thwart until our rational mind can deal with them]
I'm late to the game, here, but I have to say that I would be pretty unhappy if my DH got a nice new car but then a few months later was asking me to cut down on the money for my haircuts. I get that it isn't about the haircuts for you, but it seems to be a sticking point for him. How much can a guy's haircut be, anyway? If you wanted to seem like you are compromising a little, I'd recommend you give him a seperate haircut allowance. At least then he feels like he wins a little and you can give in on something that isn't as expensive as a new entertainment system.
It is good that you are planning ahead. I did the same thing and we did have to learn how to absorb the costs into our budget. It was not as difficult as we thought because once our daughter was born we couldn't go out to movies or to dinner as often, etc. We also don't worry much about vacations because neither of us is thrilled with the idea of traveling with a baby unless we really have to. We use grandma and grandpa when we want a babysitter for the evening, so we don't have to pay someone.
There are a few things you might be able to consider as part of your plan. If you have access to a flexible spending account, you can get some tax savings for both your healthcare and some of your childcare costs. There are tax calculators online that will help you figure out how to adjust your deductions after you add a family member. This will raise your take home pay. You might also want to look at alternatives to traditional day care to reduce the amount you would spend on that expense. I was lucky that a coworker retired when I was pregnant and she was interested in taking care of my daughter at about 1/2 the cost of an expensive daycare. Another huge savings for me was breastfeeding (if you can) and making my own baby food (simply steaming veggies and sticking them in the food processor each week - so easy and no equipment needed no matter what all the books tell you). This really kept our grocery budget in check for the first two years. DH and I both gave up part of our allowance each month to create a "baby allowance" for clothing, diapers, etc. I also divided up our savings to make sure we were putting a little bit of it away for her.
We also had a ton of help from family and friends. I literally did not buy clothing or shoes for the first two years because my daughter wore hand-me-downs from a friend with three daughters who are slightly older. I am finally starting to buy more clothes because the girls get more holes and stains as they become more active.
When I talk about money, I can see the eyes glaze over and I know DH is not listening. I am lucky that he really does not spend much money or want many things.
I think those are very good points. I don't think it's as much about the car as that he's been wanting the entertainment system upgrade forever (keep in mind the system he wants will cost upwards of $6k) and he thinks that once we get pregnant he's never going to be able to spend money on anything fun ever again. I gave in to the haircuts thing. You're right, it's not a big deal and it's worth it to get him on board. I also reset our allowances starting June 1st. Which isn't a big deal for me because I was right on budget, but DH had already spend his June and July allowance (he's recently become addicted to buying vinyl and says record stores make him almost as happy as I make him, lol). He's got a couple of trips planned (one to Austin to see Neil Young, one road trip to Chicago with his buddies in July for a music fest) so even though I laid down the law that we can't borrow forward anymore, I'm giving him a pass for the Chicago trip to spend his August allowance early.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012
Yeah, I think the flex accounts will be very important. I've already got a few thousand saved in an HSA (that rolls over so I can keep it until whenever) and we do have dependent care FSAs available to us so that'll be nice. We'll reeeeally have to research the daycare thing. For one thing, cloth diapering is important to us so maybe a home-based daycare would be more willing to work with us on that. And ideally I'll be BFing for as long as I can and making our own baby food. Though if it turns out that our daycare requires disposables and I can't BF... that'll be another financial challenge for sure.
We're going to start the new budget now and trying to decide if we should go ahead and start trying this year (I'm 29, he's turning 32 in Sept) or wait another year. I'm kinda thinking that maybe we don't actively try this summer, just see what happens. Then if we don't get PG this summer, then wait until next summer to actively try. My reasoning behind trying in the summer is so that if we were lucky enough to get PG right away, my maternity leave would just about overlap DH's summer vacation so that we wouldn't have to pay for childcare for another couple of months. I've been charting to TTA since November and it's a lot easier than I thought it'd be so I wouldn't have to go back on BCP or anything.
BFP 12.20.2010 :: missed m/c 1/2011 around 8 weeks
BFP @ 9dpo 5.24.2011 :: missed m/c 6/2011 around 7 weeks
positive for ANAs (1:40) with a speckled pattern
MTHFR c677t mutation (heterozygous)
*folic acid, baby asprin, Prometrium, acupuncture, Lovenox*
BFP @ 9dpo 2.1.2012 || HCG = 8 : Progesterone = 19.2
2nd HCG @ 11dpo = 40 || 3rd HCG @ 21dpo = over 5000!
Stick, little one, stick! EDD October 15, 2012