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Pope criticizes pursuit of wealth

The juxtaposition of this article with this picture is so ironic. Hm, which giant gold wand and gold hat should I wear today?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7654878.stm

Pope criticises pursuit of wealth

Pope Benedict XVI
The Pope says God's word is the only veritable reality to build on

The global financial crisis is proof that the pursuit of money and success is pointless, Pope Benedict XVI has told a meeting of bishops in Rome.

The head of the Roman Catholic Church said that the disappearance of money as banks collapsed showed that wealth meant "nothing".

The Pope said that people should instead base their lives on God's word.

Those who think that "concrete things we can touch are the surest reality" are deceiving themselves, he said.

'Building on sand'

The crisis in the financial industry has seen billions of dollars wiped off the value of shares, and a number of seemingly untouchable banking institutions have been taken over, nationalised, or have collapsed.

Speaking to the bishops assembled at the Vatican, Pope Benedict said those who seek "success, career or money are building on sand".

When he opened the Synod on Sunday, the Pope attacked modern culture, saying that "nations once rich in faith and vocations are losing their own identity under the harmful and destructive influence of a certain modern culture".

Re: Pope criticizes pursuit of wealth

  • Well, he has a point.  The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil, and you can see at times like these how tenuous any grip on wealth is. 

    As for the sumptuous adornments of the Church, I don't know how I feel about it.  The Catholic Church doesn't eschew ornamentation like some Protestant denominations, but you can be sure that most parishes aren't tricked out like the Vatican!  The only expensive pieces in my home parish are the chalices and ciboria, and those hold the eucharist, so they are supposed to be as nice as possible to honor God.  My priest said his cost him about as much as an engagement ring would, which I'm sure would be hard to swing on a priest's salary. 

    image
  • imagemajorwife:
    You have to understand though, that all the wealth the Chruch has, is from a long ass time ago, back when they WERE the government.  The Church is the richest thing on the planet.  When you have gold from poor, illiterate farmers from 1478, hidden in your basement or growing interest in some account, you can talk about how sinful the pursuit of money is since all the money you have was gained hundreds of years ago.

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

  • imagemajorwife:
    You have to understand though, that all the wealth the Chruch has, is from a long ass time ago, back when they WERE the government.  The Church is the richest thing on the planet.  When you have gold from poor, illiterate farmers from 1478, hidden in your basement or growing interest in some account, you can talk about how sinful the pursuit of money is since all the money you have was gained hundreds of years ago.

    Exactly. 

    "I
  • imagecarolina00:

    Well, he has a point.  The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil, and you can see at times like these how tenuous any grip on wealth is. 

    As for the sumptuous adornments of the Church, I don't know how I feel about it.  The Catholic Church doesn't eschew ornamentation like some Protestant denominations, but you can be sure that most parishes aren't tricked out like the Vatican!  The only expensive pieces in my home parish are the chalices and ciboria, and those hold the eucharist, so they are supposed to be as nice as possible to honor God.  My priest said his cost him about as much as an engagement ring would, which I'm sure would be hard to swing on a priest's salary. 

    I agree with what the Pope is saying but not the adornment he's wearing.

    When I went to Europe (that one time, a decade ago...), I was a little disugsted by the grandiose cathedrals with gold window sills (while hypocritically in awe of the elaborate organs). 

    It is curious that the Pope is so dressed up.  Most clergy, even in the Catholic church, wear very plain garments.

  • I agree both with the pope and with the idea that the gilded hats have to go.  I get it, they accumulated this wealth years ago.  How about using it to fund their work in Africa?  Or any number of good causes?  All of that wealth is pretty much ill-gotten.  So how about put it to some good use, put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, and do some good. 

    Think of all the condoms that gold scepter thing would buy... Stick out tongue

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  • I agree in general and I agree (and I think its pretty much the consensus among the financial industry) that this situation was created out of greed and stupidity. I totally understand, though, the irony in the pope/catholic church says this.

    I also agree that the basic idea of "love of money" is not a healthy goal to make your life about and understand that its a basic Christian idea.

    Where my Buddhist monks at?

     

  • So the lesson, those with inherited wealth are cool, those who try to accumulate wealth, not cool. Got it.
  • I'm not bothered by the pope's adornments at all. The pope is not only the leader of Catholics, but he's also the leader of a country - The Vatican. He's even on their Euros. St. Peter's, being the cathedral actually built on St. Peter's bones, has to be grandiose. All of the robes, pope hats, gilded gold, baldicinos, statues, paintings etc. are there to show significance to the office of the pope, the church, the saints, etc.

    ?

    Of course you see that much more in Europe than in the States.

    ?

    And the Catholic church does not have a problem with people being wealthy. It's when you are lead by GREED that it becomes a problem.

  • And as Jesus said "If you have a crap load of money, give it to the poor. Or keep it, 'sup to you really."
  • So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor?  

     

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image2Vermont:

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor?  

     

    If I'd taken a vow of charity and poverty, I surely would.

    And I seriously doubt my great-grandmother's little 1/2 carat diamond solitaire engagement ring is the same thing as the opulent papal wealth.

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  • imagebunnybean:
    image2Vermont:

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor?  

     

    If I'd taken a vow of charity and poverty, I surely would.

    And I seriously doubt my great-grandmother's little 1/2 carat diamond solitaire engagement ring is the same thing as the opulent papal wealth.

    But the heirlooms in the Church do not belong to the Pope.....they belong to the Church.  Therefore, his personal vows as a priest are irrelevant. 

    Also, whether an heirloom is "worth" 1/2 carat or worth a lot more than that, heirlooms have intrinsic value which can not be measured in dollars.

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • And just for an FYI, here are a couple of articles regarding the Vatican's finances.....sometimes in the red and sometimes in the black.  I believe they both mention that Pope John Paul II started disclosing finances on an annual basis beginning in 1981 in response to the allegations that the Vatican is wealthy. 

    http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/13/vaticans_finances_best_in_8_years/

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/09/business/09vatican.php

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • image2Vermont:
    imagebunnybean:
    image2Vermont:

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor?  

     

    If I'd taken a vow of charity and poverty, I surely would.

    And I seriously doubt my great-grandmother's little 1/2 carat diamond solitaire engagement ring is the same thing as the opulent papal wealth.

    But the heirlooms in the Church do not belong to the Pope.....they belong to the Church.  Therefore, his personal vows as a priest are irrelevant. 

    Also, whether an heirloom is "worth" 1/2 carat or worth a lot more than that, heirlooms have intrinsic value which can not be measured in dollars.

    His vows aren't irrelevant-- and if they are, they might as well just not make vows in the first place.

  • imageBrookles:
    image2Vermont:
    imagebunnybean:
    image2Vermont:

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor?  

     

    If I'd taken a vow of charity and poverty, I surely would.

    And I seriously doubt my great-grandmother's little 1/2 carat diamond solitaire engagement ring is the same thing as the opulent papal wealth.

    But the heirlooms in the Church do not belong to the Pope.....they belong to the Church.  Therefore, his personal vows as a priest are irrelevant. 

    Also, whether an heirloom is "worth" 1/2 carat or worth a lot more than that, heirlooms have intrinsic value which can not be measured in dollars.

    His vows aren't irrelevant-- and if they are, they might as well just not make vows in the first place.

    I guess I should clarify what I meant.  His vow of poverty (and that's if he even made one because I do not believe all priests make a vow of poverty) is not about what he does with Church property and heirlooms.  Vows of poverty pertain to the acquisition of personal property, gifts, etc.  However, when it comes to Church property and heirlooms, these are things that have been handed down and entrusted to him (and all future Popes).  This is just another way that the Pope is the Steward of the Church. 

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
  • 2vermont wrote:-

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited?family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor??

    1) I dont claim to follow the words of jesus, but the pope does. So no, I would keep it. And not be a hypocrite.

    2) The churches wealth is not a heirloom. The dont just have a nice watch from their grandfather, and even if that was all it was, lets ask the old question "What would Jesus do?". Myself, I doubt he would keep it in his fortified castle and run around the world with a solid gold crucifix while millions could benefit if it was used for food and clean water etc etc.

  • imageReeve:
    2vermont wrote:-

    So, I take this to mean from most of the posters here that if they inherited family heirlooms worth a lot of money they would sell them give the proceeds to the poor? 

    1) I dont claim to follow the words of jesus, but the pope does. So no, I would keep it. And not be a hypocrite.

    2) The churches wealth is not a heirloom. The dont just have a nice watch from their grandfather, and even if that was all it was, lets ask the old question "What would Jesus do?". Myself, I doubt he would keep it in his fortified castle and run around the world with a solid gold crucifix while millions could benefit if it was used for food and clean water etc etc.

    Once again I'll explain that the Church property and heirlooms (something of special value handed on from one generation to another ) are not owned by any Pope.  Therefore, to call the Pope a hypocrite for not selling something he does not own is unfair at best.  Expecting him to sell furniture, paintings, and religious items passed down from generation to generation is similar to expecting any President to sell the historical treasures, expensive antique furniture, etc. that have been maintained and protected for future generations in the White House. 

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
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