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Childlessness (reasons for/stigma against)
Okay, let's do this.
The article I was talking about is here: The real reasons more women are childless.
The bullet point version:
- The number of American women choosing not to have children has risen from 10% in 1976 to 18%.
- The number of people who denounce childlessness as "bad for society" is also up -- from 29% two years ago to 38% today.
- A New York Magazine article recently presented data that concluding that having kids makes people less happy.
- Negative stereotypes abound for childless women: being too self-centered, too career-minded.
- Childless women ask: Isn't having kids just as selfish?
Conclusion: It would be nice if there came a time when people didn't care so much whether a woman had babies or not.
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My two cents:
It's no one's business what I do with my uterus, however, people try to make it their business and they tend to always default to "so when are you going to start a family?" (And with me, they always throw in the added urgency because I'm nearing 35 and OMG old!) The fact that having kids is the default makes the feminist in me cranky. There are plenty of other valuable things I can do with my life besides growing a kid.
Aside from the times when some crazy relative is actually telling me that I'm doing my family a disservice by witholding children from them (wtf?), the negative stereotypes come across in very subtle ways (see above). But they are very much there.
WDYT, Nesties?
Re: Childlessness (reasons for/stigma against)
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I agree, no one's damn business. I swear, whether you have 19 kids or none, people will make it their business. Who cares, it's the couples decision. I don't think it's selfish to not have children, heck you're free
But I wouldn't call women with children unhappy or less happy than someone who doesn't, that's just silly.
You could always give people a smarta$$ answer. Like "well, you know how there's so many animals in shelters. That's how I feel about kids. There's so many children in foster care, that I feel it's wrong to reproduce when so many children need homes." Let them look confused for a while as you laugh on the inside
I think if you say this, you're setting yourself up to be asked when you're going to adopt one of them!
That, however, is my argument to DH to why we should have 2.0 kids on our own and then adopt one.
My Bio (wedding pics added 7/6)
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I have to admit that when I first hear someone (a married couple) say they absolutely do not want any children I have a tendancy to judge. I can't imagine not wanting to have a child/children to pass down family values and to and teach them the things that are important in life. And if you don't have children, who do you share that with?
But, once I get back to my rational self, I COMPLETELY get not wanting to have children. As one of you said - without them you are "free." And, really it's not anyone else's business other than the couple that is making the decision.
This is actually something I'm currently struggling with (thankfully I'm still young). My mind keeps going back and forth about having kids, at least right now. I've never imagined my life to be without children in it, but there are a lot of things (plans) I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up on quite yet....sigh
well, i'm sure i'm one of the "older" ones around here, being 40 and all, but if you think you're running out of time when you're 35, try adding 5 more years!
i have never really wanted kids. i have a friend who has always wanted them. she has 2 and she and her dh want at least 4 more. dh and i haven't ruled out kids, but so far, we're both like "meh". and we figure that until we're both on the same page of "yes" that it's probably wise not to have any. but i am certainly conscience of the fact that i don't have much longer if i'm going to have even one.
for me, it isn't about being free, although that is certainly an attractive feature of not having kids. i just simply do not have a desire to have a child. does that mean the thought never occurs to me? no, but ultimately, i don't think about it very often at all, i don't long for a child, thoughts of actually having to care for one are just not appealing. i love my nieces and nephews and i love spending time with them, but the thought of actually having to care for a child full time? no thanks.
i do sometimes wonder if in 10 years i will look back and regret not having a kid, especially since time's running out. quickly.
I firmly believe that people who don't want to have children shouldn't have children. I have friends and have known lots of wonderful, generous, loving people who are living perfectly fulfilled lives with spouses/partners and chose not to have children.
Children shouldn't be seen as some badge or accomplishment to be achieved and no one should pressure or make to feel guilty, people who choose not to have children.
First off - Dr. Who rocks. (Been meaning to toss that out there for a while...)
And I am totally with you. People have no brain to mouth filter when it comes to the 'having kids' questions or comments. Especially when you say 'We don't plan to have kids..." - I just love the "OH, you'll change your mind!" retort I typically get. Ummm, yeah. OK.
Think I'm just going to resort to telling people that's too personal of a question and leave it at that going forward. Cut off the conversation before it's started.
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This is exactly where DH and I are. It's only been pretty recently that the idea of having a child has been at all appealing and it's still a pretty abstract thing. Like, kid = okay; pregnancy/labor/delivery = no thank you. Not interested. Not in the least.
The Bible says we are supposed to have babies and I think anybody who doesn't is evil....thats the best I got for trying to liven this place up.
ETA: how do you like that subtitle on that article?:
"Despite what some conservatives say, its not because they're having abortions"
I find it interesting that one of the bullet points states that HAVING children is selfish. I had never thought of that (and don't necessarily agree with it), I can see how someone could make that statement. For example, if a woman in a relationship wants a child and the husband does not, and disregards it - that can be considered selfish. Example: I have a friend who totally disregarded her husband's opinion on a second child, and while he loves the baby, he's still kind of "meh" about some things.
Like I said earlier - I actually kind of admire my SIL for deciding not to have children. She knows she wouldn't be able to give it her all for several reasons, so she made a decision.
I had always been kind of lukewarm on the idea of having children.. especially during my first marriage. I think it was partly because my XH was not the right person to have children with, and I "knew" that after a couple of years. It was a source of some strife. Now, in my current relationship, I am really looking forward to it.
But "bad for society"?? Gimme a break!
Come onnnn bumpies.. we know you're out there - weigh in!
There was a lot more open space and a lot less people when the Bible said that!
My Bio (wedding pics added 7/6)
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The only selfish thing I saw in that area of the article is the "having someone to take care of me in old age". While I think that's sort of selfish, that is considered the norm in some cultures. So even that argument doesn't make sense for everybody. Then again, nothing in this entire argument makes sense for everybody...due to the fact that it's a personal issue and we're all different.
My Bio (wedding pics added 7/6)
My 101
I thought the abortion data was pretty interesting.
RE: The selfish argument
I think the key words there are "just as." One is equally as selfish as the other. To play devil's advocate for a moment: why is it that the childless lifestyle is considered selfish, but choosing to have kids when you aren't financially prepared to support them isn't?
Ditto everything, but especially the bolded.
I think the idea that you have to have children to be fulfilled is BS... at least for me. First of all, the notion of fulfillment is completely relative. Some people are fulfilled by having big houses and fancy cars, others are fulfilled by creativity and ideas, and frankly, there are people who feel fulfilled by a Coke and a Snickers bar. To me, having children is kind of a gamble in the fulfillment department. I know people for whom being a parent is their greatest joy and I know people who could not seem less happy being parents. But I guess you can't know that until you become a parent.
I can perfectly understand why someone would not want children. Hell, I have two children and some days I don't want them
I think that people who have kids in order to feel fulfilled are in for a bitter disappointment. I think those are the people who become the Unhappy Parents.
lol i would add to that list, getting up every however many hours. i would not do well with that. unfortunately, i am one of those people that really needs 8 hours of quality sleep. i wish i was one of those people who can take the 20 minute power nap and awake refreshed and ready to go. i can just see sticking a kid in the pack n' play while i'm out for my almost daily 2-4 hour (yes, i can sleep 8 at night and 4 during the day!) nap.
I think some people say having children is selfish because they want one of 'their own' instead of helping out those children that need safe, good homes that are already here!
also, the environmental impact of children (and multiple children) is something to consider.
now, I hope one day i can be one of those people that have 'their own' - and probably even more than one... just thought I'd throw those ideas out there.
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Interesting article - thanks for posting!
I think it's a funny double standard that people see no problem with giving child-free people a hard time and telling them they're going to regret not having children. I've been told that by an aquaintance who is currently pregnant with quadruplets and if I told her I thought she was going to regret having those her head would start spinning around a la the Exorcist.
So here's my personal take on being child-free by choice. I like sleeping as late as I want. I like deciding I want to go somewhere, buying a plane ticket, and not thinking twice about it. I like the fact that my house is pretty much always clean and quiet. I like spending my money on ME - in the past week I've bought a vintage drum set and a pair of ridiculous (seriously, 5 1/2 inch) Dior wedges, neither which are even remotely child friendly. I haven't cooked in probably 2 months because it's too hot and I can't be bothered. Something tells me feeding a kid baguettes, havarti, and diet coke for a week straight could land me in trouble with CPS.
I'm happy with my life the way it is and I absolutely agree that having a baby that you don't neccessarily want would be infinitely more selfish than not having one at all.
Sorry to join this one late... haven't been at my computer lately.
Having a child is a very personal choice between the parents. My best friend is not having children by choice and I see no reason why that is any of my business. She and her husband are happy with their decision - just as she is happy with my decision to have children (hopefully soon). I think the most selfish thing you can do is to have a child that you aren't particularly interested in just to silence the critics. There are always going to be critics - don't like the name, don't see the kids enough, what are they wearing, etc.
As for children fulfilling a person, that's a lot of pressure for a kid. I'm not going to give birth to a doll, playmate, or friend for myself. We're planning on having a child because we feel that we enjoy being parents and can offer our child(ren) a lot. We opted to wait a couple of years after getting married to build our relationship to the point we were ready for kids. A very personal choice that no amount of nagging or guilting can change.