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at an impasse :( long
My husband was first laid off from his job as a railroad conductor two years ago. He loves being a conductor. But due to the bad economy and a$$hole senior union reps who figure that senior guys should be allowed to work as much as legally possible (works out to 100 hours a week) he hasn't actually got to be a conductor much. When he's laid off, he works for the same company, doing physical labour repairing tracks. It's crappy work with crappy pay and takes him away from home for 10 days at a time.
There's not much chance of him quitting and getting a new job. The likelihood of him finding a decent job with a wage that would pay even half of our bills is slim to none- the unemployment rate where we are is considerably higher than the national or provincial average, and his current job pays double the average household income for this area and we have bills to match his income.
Over the past two years, he has worked in his real job for a week to six weeks at a time, sporadically, as train traffic and vacation allotments require more conductors. He was just working for six weeks but then laid off again. The fact that he's laid off in the summer means that he most likely won't be working as a conductor with any regularity for at least another year. So back to track maintenance he went.
We're both absolutely sick of this, and are devastated to think of another year of him at home only every second weekend. We both agree that this needs to change but have different ideas on how to deal:
1. There is a position available in our location as yardmaster. It's technically a promotion but only available because no senior guy wants to work it. My husband could bid it (union rules: everything is bid, not awarded on merit) and would most likely get it. It pays well, and he'd be at home, with job security, and a regularly scheduled work day (no more working on-call as a conductor or away from home in track maintenance). The odds of him getting laid off as a yardmaster are virtually non-existent. I'm all over this option. He is reluctant because, since no one wants this job, he'll most likely be stuck working it for years. He hates to think that in a year he could be working as a conductor if he had stuck it out, but is instead stuck in an office watching train traffic. He couldn't leave until enough other people were trained, and he isn't hopeful that will happen anytime soon- maybe even a decade or more. Getting people to fill that job is that tough because it pays roughly the same as a conductor but being a conductor is way more fun.
2. moving. He has enough seniority to hold a job as a conductor in any other terminal in Western Canada. He thinks we could move somewhere with a lower cost of living, buy a nice house, and be set. I hate this idea. I don't want to move away from my family, whom I'm very close with, I dont want to move further away from Children's Hospital with all our upcoming appointments (the city he wants to move to would require a fllight back and forth), I don't want to move to a city with a lower cost of living because they're all small towns and I'm a city girl (I'd move to Vancouver or Calgary but he doesn't want to move to either), I don't want to sell our house (and I'm not sure we could without paying money after real estate fees and such), and on and on and on. Furthermore, there's no guarantee life in the new city/town would be better- just because he can hold a job there now doesn't mean he always will be able to. If we go into another recession, which some economists think we might, then he could easily be laid off again and then he'd be working away from home again and I'd be living in a new city where I don't know anyone and have no family near by.
We've been discussing this a lot lately because we both agree the current situation blows but we're not really coming to an agreement. To me, option 1 seems like the obvious solution but I'm not the one who would be working this job that is apparently so awful no one else will take it. He thinks I am choosing my family over our family, but I don't agree with that assessment- as listed above, there are many reasons I don't want to move (and he knows and agrees with them all, but he thinks we can deal with them anyway). There are no options that keep us close to home now- the closest terminal is 4 hours away (Vancouver) and he hates the idea of moving back to Vancouver more than he hates the idea of being yardmaster. I know if I put my foot down he would bid yardmaster, but I'm afraid he'll resent me for it when all his coworkers with the same level of seniority are working as conductors again and he's not.
Ugh. I don't know what to do. I've tried to present both sides as un-biasedly as possible... any neutral third-party insights for me? If you made it this far?
Re: at an impasse :( long
I have to say that I definitely see where you are coming from with choosing option #1 and no matter what it puts you between a rock and a hard place.
I think all of your reasons are very valid. I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to move away from your support system. Be they family or friends. Especially after you have kids and I completely agree about the hospital issues.
From his point of view, I can see how this would be very frustrating. The thing is that no one has a crystal ball and can tell him what will happen two hours from now let alone weeks, months or years. And the same argument that he has regarding you not wanting to leave your family, well he doesn't want to leave the possibility of being a conductor for the stability of the yardmaster.
I guess I don't have any real advice except that you can only make decisions based on what you have in front of you at the time and I don't envy you right now.
Well. I don't know that I have any useful advice, but I just wanted to let you know that I read and I wish things were easier for you and your family. It sounds like you have more than your fair share of problems.
While I completely agree that your solution makes the most sense, I can also see how pressuring your DH to take a job he doesn't want could cause resentment in the future. If only you could work on his subconscious somehow to get him to come around "on his own" and make him think that it was totally his idea.
Ugh. Good luck. Let us know what happens.
My comments probably won't be so helpful...
But in our situation, we'd be excited for either option. DH doesn't really care about fun at work, just stability. He'd be all over the yardmaster job even if he didn't enjoy it as much. Bringing in a good, stable, long term income for the 3 of us is one of his biggest dreams. He's able to make lemonade even out of the biggest lemon of a job.
As for option 2. How bad are these small towns? I would research them to death. Read a lot... go to lots of message boards asking "Do you live in Schmooville? What do you like about it? What do you hate?" You might be shocked to hear how people are madly in love with Schmooville. (Start here... the Lonely Planet's Thorntree has a Canada board. Worth asking there. It's usually pretty busy. And people aren't afraid to speak up.)
As for moving away from family -- my family is 18 hours away. DH's is all in North Africa - with one exception (FIL is in Paris). And we're actually doing just fine. We were concerned for a bit before/after DD was born, but those concerns weren't so valid. We've made decent friends and we've learned how to do this on our own. And not only is it tolerable, it has it's perks.
The appointments at Children's in Vancouver? Having to fly to them would be tough. Again, Id' be researching. How much would it cost to fly from Schmooville to Vancouver? Are there direct flights? (If not, how long is the drive to the airport?) How can I get as many Airmiles as possible to cover these flights?
I'd see moving to (most) new places as an adventure. And I could get very excited. Especially if the financial responsibility wouldn't be on me. And if we could buy a house? Wow. Heaven. I can only imagine such a scenario for us in my wildest dreams. And I'd be all over it.
~~
Anyway, now that you think I'm nutters....
I just wanted to offer the pluses of both options from a person in very different shoes. Neither is 'perfect' for both of you, but I still think they both sound very good.
GL! I'm sorry this has been hard for you. I hope that there might be a compromise of sorts on the horizon. Or a change of heart on one of your parts.
I agree with Moroccojade and Melozia. And especially the bolded part. Even if you really like the job because it's fun - what does the stress of not knowing if it could stop any day and leave you with nothing do? Or a bad boss or coworkers can change what should be a fun job into a miserable experience. And sometimes a job is what you make of it. If you approach it as "I'm going to hate this and it will suck" it really will. Because every job has it's good and negative points, the problem is when you expect it to be all bad the negatives are so much easier to see and be bothered by.
As a kid we never lived near family and it didn't bother me, I dont' think I noticed. Now, the thought of moving away from family isn't on my concerns list at all. However, I don't have to balance the worry of a sick child or lots of doctor's appointments so I don't know how that could change things. I'd imagine too that not having an answer about what you're dealing with makes it harder.
So basically, I don't see either as a bad choice or wrong - it's just a matter of what is best. As to your DH's point about "our" family - I would remind him that part of your family includes a sick little boy and getting him the best care possible. I'm not saying that automatically means the yard job, but more that your concerns about having family close for support aren't necessarily choosing them over your husband and son and shouldn't be considered a non-issue (like I would normally see it)
I agree with this. It is a very lucky person that finds a job that will be stable, bring in a good amount of $ and make them happy. Usually, you have to forgo at least one of these. If he thinks that the job won't be stimulating enough then maybe he could put more energy into his other interests.
I know quite a few people that work on the line at factories. It is a mundane, boring job. Instead they volunteer, join sports leagues and involve themselves in hobbies that will stimulate them.
Good luck! On a positive note, it is good that there are a couple of options out there for you.
Thanks everyone. I didn't expect so many people to read my loooooong rant
It feels good to be heard...
I think much of this situation is my fault. My husband used to be a "lemonade out of lemon job" kind of guy, working at a job he hated for years because it paid well- and he didn't think much of it. I thought that situation was really sad and I encouraged him for years to find a new job. Eventually he came around to my reasoning and went to school part-time while working full time to be a fisheries conservation officer. After a while he accepted that job opportunities with the DFO are few and far between and settled on getting a trade. So we moved away from Vancouver (a city he hated) and moved to Fort St John because friends who lived there assured him he'd get an apprenticeship right away. I HATED FSJ and this was at the beginning of the recession and he didnt get the apprenticeship he wanted so we started looking at other opportunities and found the conductor job in our current city. We were both thrilled as this job was in the same city my parents and sisters live in and it was a win-win-win situation.
I think now we are just approaching this from different sides. After so many years of me encouraging my husband to get a job he loves, he finally has one within reach and he feels a bit like I'm pulling the rug out from under him, telling him to suck it up and go to a job that offers security and pays well. We've sacrificed so much for him to get a job he wants and now he's just going to give it up? (possibly give it up, anyway- he could theoretically return to conductoring, it just depends on whether they can find people, which may or may not happen). On the other hand, I feel like we've given up so much and it hasn't worked out and there's no guarantee the new city will work out either and after three years of chasing a dream, I want stability for our family. But I know this never would have been an issue if I didn't encourage him to "chase the dream" to begin with.
We have researched the new town(s) fairly extensively, even travelling to one option. By all accounts, talking to people who have lived there, the city on the top of my husband's list has a high crime rate, low cost of living, lots of outdoor activities (which my husband loves), mild climate. The high crime is another nail in the coffin for me. That's not what I want.
Family- I know that many people live away from family and do just fine. It's just not what I want. I have very young sisters (ages 6 - 12) and I am very close with all of them, and that's a relationship I place a lot of value on. I want to be there as they grow up. I don't believe for a second we will have that relationship if I move away (based on experience- when we lived in Vancouver and they didn't, it was very hard to maintain a strong relationship with them due to their ages. Now that we're close again it breaks my heart to give that up). I also really want my son to be close to his aunties (who are almost like his sisters more than they are mine, due to age difference) and his grandparents. We don't see my husband's family often because they're nutcases and I want my kid(s) to have some family we are close with.
I just feel like I would gain nothing by moving, except having my husband work at "home" (assuming he's not laid off in new city), but I would have that if he took the new job. It would just be a lot of loss for me if we chose that option. For him to choose the new job he'd only be giving up one thing- the (possibly temporary) loss of the job he loves, but would be gaining everything else... being at home, stability, etc. I feel like staying is the best option for our family. It seems like many of you agree with my line of thinking. Like I said, I know he will bid the job if I put my foot down, I just really don't want to do that. I'm afraid later he'll be angry with me.
Approaching things positively applies to you too - you will hate moving if you expect to hate it and see it as you losing.
Maybe take a step back and talk about your long term goals. Where do you two want to be in 15, 10 and 5 years. To get to the 5 years what needs to happen? Then set goals for year 4, 3, 2, 1. Maybe that will help you find the best option.
Again, I don't think either of you are wrong. I do think you're lacking a shared vision of what your life together should look like and as a result you're both looking down different paths thinking they fit. But fit to what? I'm not getting a sense either of you knows what you're trying to work towards.
I'm not sure I agree with that, although I could be too close to the situation to see it clearly.
We do have a shared 5, 10, 15 year plan. There is really no dispute there. We both fully agree that our goal would be to be living here, him working the job he wants, keeping our family (my parents and sisters) close. To make that exact goal happen, the goal for year 1 would be him to continue working away from home. Which blows. He could continue to work in track maintenance and eventually he'll be able to work as a conductor here again. For the past two years that is the goal we've been working towards (for the first 8 months he took the layoff and was a SAHD while I worked. When his EI ran out he went to track maintenance, and at the time we said it would only be for a couple months. Surely, we thought, he'd be working at home again very soon. 16 months later, we're sick of saying "Just a few more months", getting our hopes up every time he is called back to conductoring and having them stomped on every time he is laid off again).
So we know what our vision is. But it's just not possible, unless we continue to basically live apart. So in coming up with alternatives, which we both agree is needed, we've come up with short term goals (moving/yardmastering) that hopefully keep most of the aspects of the goal intact. For him, keeping our immediate family together and having the job he wants is a bigger part of the goal than my family and our current home. In order of priority, he ranks them: our family, good job, extended family/stability. For me, it's ranked: our family, extended family/stability, good job.
We both agree it doesn't make sense to keep sacrificing our common goal #1 (keeping the three of us together) for goals #2 and #3. It seems that the three aspects of the goal are just not compatible due to current conditions. We can have 2 out of 3 aspects of our main goal, but no more. We just can't agree on which one to cut.
So with your last update - I'm more inclined to agree with your husband. That would be my order of priorities as well. I can more easily see where he's coming from. Since I can see his side, I do agree that if my husband were to demand I take a lesser job to accomodate his extended family I might do it with a kid involved but I would find it hard to not be resentful.
And again, with my family history I don't have the need to be physically close to extended family. So for me, it's easier to say. That doesn't mean I'm right.
Not sure how you figure this out when no one is right/wrong.
I don't have too much advice but I agree with previous posters comments on people placing too much on them enjoying their jobs. To me jobs are a paycheque, hopefully a good paycheque with work that doesn't sacrifice my morals, health and work-life balance.
To me stability would be huge. I don't do well with the stress of no money coming in.
Good luck figuring it out. Maybe do a old-fashioned list of pros and cons of each.