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Manhattan Mosque - what's the hubbub?
Seriously - Why is this such a big deal? Can someone provide an argument (or link) that explains why people are so upset in a rational non-fear-mongering-all-muslims-are-evil way?
I just don't get it - I don't get how it is disrespectful for one of the world's leading religions to build a community center in one of the world's leading cities. And I don't understand why its proximity to the WTC site is an issue. Seriously - because a dozen extremists committed an awful attack, the whole area is now off limits to all Mulsims? What's next - all of Manhattan is off limits, then New York, then all of the East Coast is mosque free??
How exactly is this proving to our "enemies" that they cannot defeat American ideals of freedom? That they cannot scare us into becoming like them - into limiting the rights and religious practices of the minority?
I don't get it - - - and I am honestly hoping that someone can show me the logical and reasonable arguments against building a COMMUNITY CENTER and place of worship in a metropolitan area.
Or if you can't provide a sane argument, then please let me know that I'm not alone in feeling this confusion. It seems - at least from popular media - that everyone is against the mosque and those few voices that support it get shushed and drown out by the masses who object. I find it very troubling and honestly frightening that our country could be turning down a path where these actions of intolerance are widely accepted.
Re: Manhattan Mosque - what's the hubbub?
I may get flamed, but...
I think that there will always be some poeple who associate mosques and Islam with 9/11. Right or wrong, they will. I think the situation is similar (not the same) to Columbine and how some people wanted the shooters to have memorials close to the memorials of the victims. The shooters were victims of a different sort in that they were failed by those around them. Yet, there was outcry of poeple saying it wasn't right to have them included and the remembrance of them was left out.
I think that because the association is there for people, it's likely a better fit for everyone to have it ina different place. Not just for the people who oppose it, but for the mosque. It's likely if it's built there that they will forever have issues with people harassing them and causing problems.
In a perfect world, I'd rather that this wasn't an issue at all.
I'm with Dawn. I have yet to read one rational and educated argument against the building of the cultural center.
You make lots of really good points raz.
Thanks for the correction, Kiz - I keep referring to it as a "Community Center" -which I'm sure it will be, but it is more accurate to call it a "Cultural Center." Perhaps that is what scares people - that it is a place where Muslim culture will be celebrated and appreciated and they simply are not comfortable with that.
I'm with you Raz, I'm confused and I just don't get the up roar. I guess I can understand fear, but it wasn't necessarily Muslims who were the terrorists in the attack it was Al Quaida. The terrorists may have been practicing a form of extereme Islam, but in my mind that is very similar to comparing Mormons with the Mormon fudamentalists who have compounds and multiple wives and the possible sexual abuse they are permitting by young wives being married to older men.
I saw a few articles mentioning the uproar yesterday and I didn't have a chance to actually listen to what Obama had said until I watched the news. I found nothing wrong with what he said. He did say the mosque and community center were ok to be built there in his opinion, but rather that it is America and we should give the freedom of religion to build it where ever they choose in accordance to law.
Nicole and Sam 10/3/09
I agree with both of you.
I completely agree with you, Raz. This whole issue upsets me on so many levels!
That's what I was hoping to hear - but sadly that just means that those in opposition - who shout the loudest - create an illusion of being in the majority and they shape the way the story unfolds.
That seems to be the trend of society lately - Sarah Palin is everywhere and people think she is the Republican front-runner because she is constantly blabbing and drawing cheering crowds . . . but when you actually poll people about who they would vote for, she is barely in the top 3.
((Shrug)) Whatever the cause for the issue being presented the way it is, I'm really am happy to hear/read everyone's response - it restores my faith that not everyone has lost their mind!
The responses I got from another discussion was that they shouldn't build the mosque there because it is such a sensitive issue. I don't agree at all. I think that people are prejudiced against Muslims and Islam in general. They're letting that prejudice, labeled as sensitivity, get in the way of those Muslim's fundamental and constitutional rights.
Granted they can't constitutionally or shouldn't succeed with this, I think that it is a huge issue that people would even try to.
The trauma of 19 terrorist of Al-Qaeda are what people are pinning on the 6-7 million Muslims in our nation, and even more in the world. I am bitter-sweetly thankful yet embarassed that Christians do not have that kind of association with the terrors we've caused people over the centuries. It is such a double standard.
I would never think to protest against this community center. I'm still waiting on someone to draw the magical line as to where it is okay to build one.
Zuma Zoom
I'm a little foggy on what you mean here. You're saying that you, as a Christian, are thankful, but also embarrassed, that Christians don't get the same "bad wrap" as Muslims even though Christians have done plenty of "bad things" in history? I just want to make sure I get what you mean here.
ETA: To spin off of that, I read an interesting point yesterday that there is a Baptist church 2 blocks from the Oklahoma City bombing site and apparently Timothy McVeigh was raised Baptist. Where was the uproar about that? I'm not sure of the validity of the facts (T.M. Baptist background etc.) but it does raise an interesting point.
Similar to what Kiz said - I heard a good argument yesterday that this would be similar to the UK restricting the location of Catholic Churches because of the IRA bombings. It simply doesn't make sense!
But perhaps these arguments fail to hold water for those who believe that anything that is not Judeo-Christian (or white) is wrong and evil.
I'm embarrassed for the Christians, and well Americans in general regardless of religion, who are trying to protest against Muslims rights to have the CC there. Especially when most of the protesting people are ones who strongly believe that it is their right to be there, because they support our first amendment.
I feel thankful that Christians, for the most part, are seen in a more positive light. I can't imagine actually living through that with the fear someone would attack me because I believed in Christ. Or just the blatant prejudices I'd experience because of this terrorist attack by the KKK, or the people who bomb abortion clinics.
I hate the double standard, it's horrible. I don't think that a few extremist from any religion should represent the majority who believe in what they will.
Zuma Zoom
Well, a "friend" of mine is married to a man from the middle east. So, according to her, he's an expert on Islam.
According to her husband, this cultural center is the first step to taking over NYC, and then NY state and then all of America. So, if we allow this to be built, all women should start stocking up on head scarves and long skirts now. Because they WILL take over America. Ground Zero is also their new Mecca, which is why they want to build there, it is now holy ground to them.
She went on to argue that they already have 35 mosques in NYC, they don't need another one.
so, no, I can't help with the rational argument against it. Sorry.
I did however, get blank stares when I pointed out that:
1) most Muslims condemn the 9/11 attacks
2) this center was in the works before 9/11.
3) there are only 7 mosques in NYC (according to NYC.com), but there are 6509 churches and 266 temples. Clearly, the Muslims are taking over in numbers.
4) using the terrorists as a representative of the entire Muslim faith is no different than using the people who bomb abortion clinics and execute gays as being representative of all Christians.
I agree with you all. I'm horrified and ashamed by all this anti-muslim hatred.
If someone committed a horrible crime, and they claimed to be christians--or even committed it in the name of their (warped view of) christianity, people in this country wouldn't suddenly be opposed to a church being built in the vicinity of the crime. They would think "well, those people weren't true christians...they don't represent what christianity is really about". But because the terrorists were muslim--the "other"--they condemn the entire religion.
The bigotry disgusts me.
I completely agree with this. Personally, though, I think ALL faiths should be barred from building on ground zero. I think anything built there should be void of all politics and religion.