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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
if I get this $&#!*(&@! email one more time...
Many of my relatives are veeeeery far right politically, which means that we often don't see eye to eye, and also quite religious (all of which is fine, if that's how you roll, but relevant to what I'm about to write). And, sadly, very few of them fact check anything before forwarding it on - this means I've gotten the "Bible vs Qur'an" email a few times, along with this one...or, like this morning, both combined, along with a diatribe against "the mosque being built at Ground Zero."
*SIGH*
After a bit of thought, I finally wrote back to the sender:
"Just a heads up since I know you don?t want to spread misinformation...those photos [of Muslims praying in NYC] are from an annual event, not a weekly one, and something that has been happening for over 20 years. Also, the 'mosque' being built a few blocks from where the Twin Towers stood is not a mosque. It's a community center (auditorium, swimming pool, basketball court, etc, even a 9/11 memorial space) that is open to the public and simply includes a prayer space - like if a YMCA had a Christian chapel attached."
I know I'll never change anyone's mind and it's pointless to respond, but I feel like I have to say something...this ridiculous fear-mongering and misinformation riles me up. 
Re: if I get this $&#!*(&@! email one more time...
Alyson & Phil | Planning Bio | Married Bio!
Dates & Quinces Blog
TTC/PG Blog | Mommy Blog
I know, right?!? It also makes me crazy when people say, "I believe in freedom of religion, BUUUUT..."
Um, no. No "buts". It doesn't work that way. It's not "freedom of religion as long as you believe what I believe." That's the whole POINT: no one can be persecuted for their religious beliefs, and it doesn't matter if their beliefs are not the same as yours.
America was not founded as a Christian nation (although it's a commonly held - and totally erroneous - belief that it was) - it was founded as a country where politics were specifically divorced from religion to guarantee that people were free to believe whatever they wanted to.
I don't have any problem with people holding opposing political views to my own, or religious beliefs that I don't share. I do, however, have a problem with it when they try to force those beliefs on others or use them as weapons of discrimination.
This is a scary time we live in when a large percentage of this country REALLY believes Obama is a Muslim. I mean, really, what else will people make up and attempt to get the public to believe.
It kills me any time someone says that America believes in the separation of church and state. Because it so obviously doesn't.
I think America stands for a lot of great things - I don't want anyone to think I'm being a basher - but this current influx of acceptable racism/discrimination is just SO ridiculous and upsetting. I spend a lot of time in my classroom working to change opinions about sexuality and religion, and it really frustrates me that my students are exposed to such bigotry.
Alyson & Phil | Planning Bio | Married Bio!
Dates & Quinces Blog
hawaii 10.2008 plan ;P married bio ???
And even more scary, something like 33% of young people (under 34) polled said they believe he's a Muslim. Again, if he is, I don't care, but hello? He's not. He's said he's not. And yet, people still perpetuate this myth and sadly, use it as if it were a bad thing.
I couldn't agree more about many Americans believing that freedom of religion means only if you agree with MY religion...and MY politics. Why else would abortion and gay marriage STILL be hot topics? So lame. And sad. Makes me want to move to Holland!
TTC/PG Blog | Mommy Blog
That's the weird thing to me - he's not a Muslim, he's said he's not, and I vaguely recall him parting ways with his (Christian) church during his campaign when the pastor there made some poor political comments...am I remembering that correctly? But anyway, so what if he was? Lots of Americans are. Not just terrorists (and you certainly don't have to be Muslim to be a terrorist!), but plain ole Americans who love their country and are happy to live there. So as you say, he's not a Muslim, but even if he was - who cares? Why does it matter? What if he was Buddhist - would that be a problem, too? As far as I'm concerned, he can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster as long as he does his job well.
You are remembering. The pastor said some seriously uncool stuff.
Seriously, I think it would. Can you imagine a president not saying the words "God bless America"? How many congressmen/congresswomen/senators aren't Christian?
Alyson & Phil | Planning Bio | Married Bio!
Dates & Quinces Blog
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Very true. The funny thing to me about that is how many of those people do you think are Christians in name only? If they know that's going to help get them into office, I would bet that a large majority of them would profess faith (and even attend church to be seen) just to keep their jobs. I'm certainly not saying that there aren't politicians who are genuine Christians...just that it's a bit silly that it's practically a job requirement to at least appear as one.
But then, I think it's also a trust issue. When one of my uncles needs a plumber or something, he goes through the phone book and calls the one with the Christian fish symbol on their ad. I asked him once why he did this, and he said, "Because I know I can trust them since they're a Christian." I've seen this backfire for him, but he still believes it (not saying Christians are any LESS trustworthy - just that claiming faith doesn't automatically make them honest). So I think there's an element of that in politics too: "This politician won't lie or cheat us because they share our faith."
Wow. I mean, I mean seriously, WOW.
At my school, I'd say a good 70% of students are atheists and 20% are either Christian or Muslim and the other 10% are Buddhist. Even though I'm Christian, I find it deeply offensive that our choir director spends most of the holiday concert conducting religious carols. You know that atheists, not Muslims, are the most mistrusted group in the US? Horrible, I tell you. Morals aren't derived from being religious, they come from being human. I know, I'm preaching to the choir here... I just don't understand how some people have such a narrow minded view of religion.
Alyson & Phil | Planning Bio | Married Bio!
Dates & Quinces Blog
Ah but you see, conservative fundamentalist Christians (which most of my family members are, to varying degrees) would argue that point with you. To them, man is necessarily fallen and prone to evil and sin. The only thing that allows us to do good deeds is God's grace - and if your heart has been truly transformed by Jesus, then you no longer desire to sin (or at least resist it more effectively than a non-believer).
I don't personally believe this...but I spent my formative years attending a fundie-light church and thus have a pretty good grounding in the dogma (of this particular brand of Christianity, anyway - I don't claim expertise in all of them, especially the more liberal branches).
Of course they would argue, but the ability to do so doesn't make them any less wrong. As much reason as I have at my fingertips, or religion degree I got in university, you can't have discussions with people who aren't open to learning.
The fundamentalist movement in the US is so recent (really since the early 1900's) and so ridiculous (literalism? What?) and fails to take into account ANY of the historical details of something as basic as putting together the bible. How on earth can a person claim to understand something when they have no sense of the context? You know, in the century after Jesus' death there were 2 major groups of Christians - one of whom denied that he was human and the other of whom denied that he was divine? There were groups who believed that there were two Gods, 32 Gods, 365 Gods. So, there have always been different interpretations of what went down. I can deal with that. Beliefs are always evolving. But, what drives me crazy is I seriously doubt that most people know how the bible was even assembled - what made the cut and what didn't and why. I'm still sad that the infancy gospels (Jesus as a baby/teen getting into all sorts of crazy hijinks) didn't make it in. Don't go around preaching to me if you don't know about the Nicene councils, or who established the bible in the current sense that arrived there, you know? Critical literacy. It's an important skill.
Ah, I love talking religion. It's such a fascinating phenomenon. I keep recommending this book An Angel Directs the Storm, but it's a great look at the rise of fundamentalism in the US and why it exists there and not in other predominantly Christian countries.
Alyson & Phil | Planning Bio | Married Bio!
Dates & Quinces Blog
Ooooh I'll have to check out that book, thank you! It might give me more of an insight into why my family is into it. I've often wondered why fundamentalism got a foothold in USA and not so much in other countries.
I'm the rebellious black sheep who is going to hell because I don't have fundamentalist beliefs or think a literal interpretation of the Bible is the way to go or think a trip to the Creation Museum would be awesome (well, I take that back - it WOULD be, but not for the same reasons
).
I brought up the Nicene councils once in a debate/discussion with my grandmother, explaining how grounded they were in the politics of the day. She said that God led the people who chose the current books. End of story.
As you said, you can't have a discussion with someone who isn't open to alternative information - I suppose it's the great strength and weakness of the movement that any questions or contradictions can be explained away with "God did this, and we can't understand the mind of God."