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Are we crazy?
I posted this on TK boards but they told me to ask for your input as well...
DH & I recently went on our HM to Hawaii -- we went to Maui & the Big Island. DH is not a beach person but he fell in love with Maui. We both feel like we could move there in heartbeat. The problem is we live in NJ & DH just took the NJ Bar exam. He still hasn't found a job, I don't like mine, we have no debt, no mortgage, no ties here except of course our family. We just feel drawn to Hawaii -- we've both never felt this way about any where else. Anyone who lives in Hawaii -- is it worth to leave family & friends to live there? How is the economy for lawyers? My family + friends think we are crazy, but we can't help it -- we are considering taking a leap. So tell me -- are we insane?
By the way, anyone who has done this recently -- how hard was it to find a job/an affordable place to live?
Re: Are we crazy?
Yup, I've heard the same as Lisa. Tough economy and you'd be surprised at how expensive it is to live there. Also, as a lawyer, you most likely will not find much work on Maui. You would have better luck on Oahu. It's funny, but I find that when you vacation somewhere like Hawaii, it can be really magical but it's much different when you are actually living there dealing with everyday life...working, making ends meet, etc. etc. Good luck with your decision!
This is true too. I'm not trying to be a killjoy lol, but it is a good point.
A lot of people I talk to think it must be a thrill a minute to live in Australia, but the sad truth is that even if you love the country (as I do), at some point it just becomes...a place. Somewhere ordinary like any other place where you work and live and pay the bills. It doesn't mean it's a bad place (nor is Hawaii, and I'm SUPER jealous of people who get to live somewhere so gorgeous!) just that at some point the bloom comes off the rose, if you know what I mean.
I'm not saying that it's bad to dream about moving there (not at all!), just make sure you're aware of the everyday living vs vacation dream...but since you're asking about the realities of a move, you already are taking a practical view, which is fantastic.
I can't speak for Maui and I have absolutely no clue what it's like to make the transition you're considering, but I wanted to say that this is an excellent point. I was born, raised and still live on Oahu. I am grateful for all it has to offer, but, like Lisa mentioned, it's still a place. While most people visit the islands for a week at a time, getting married or honeymooning, they aren't normally exposed to the every day hustle and bustle, traffic, crime, homelessness, unemployment, cost of living, medical care (it's not uncommon for patients to come to Oahu for certain medical procedures not available on the outer islands), and other plights you'd find just about anywhere else. Vacationing somewhere and having to survive/make a living somewhere are two very different experiences, IMO.
What do you consider "affordable"? Are you thinking of renting or buying? As with any other place, you'll need to figure out what your priorities are: How "nice" of an area would you like to live in, how far of a commute can you live with, do you prefer a city atmosphere or country living, etc.? This link will give you an idea of housing and prices (most of the frontpage links say "Oahu", but you can search all islands): http://hicentral.com/
As far as jobs are concerned, it depends on what field you're in and who you know. I don't know anything about lawyers.
What field are you in?
I'll share my own personal experience...take it for what it's worth.
My husband was laid off from a supervisory IT position back in June. I will say that there are quite a few IT job listings out there, but it took at least 2 months before he got any call-backs. We found that many places were hiring for entry-level positions, and on several occasions, he was told that the reason the call-backs took so long was because the market was flooded with unemployed IT workers (whittling down hundreds of applicants to the top 3 takes time, apparently 
).
Luckily, my husband has networked with many people over the years and was able to follow-up on leads from his contacts, which ultimately led to him finding employment 3 weeks ago. Without those contacts, I wouldn't be surprised if he was still unemployed.
Some people are comfortable with just leaving everything behind and seeing what happens. Other people don't like to take risks. I don't mean to paint a negative picture, but I'd encourage you to do as much research as you can so you are not caught off guard. Good Luck!
I bolded this because it just reminded me of something...
I was watching...something, I can't remember what, and there was some kind of law enforcement officer being interviewed in Waikiki. He said that at some point (not sure if it's still happening - I think not?), some cities on the mainland were getting rid of their homeless people by giving them a one-way ticket to Hawaii, and that's why Hawaii had a big homeless problem. Nicole, do you know if it's true, or just hyperbole?
ETA: Oh! I know what it was! Stephen Fry's America. Very fun documentary (Fry visits all 50 states and drives a British black cab for the continental ones), check it out if you can.
Oh, and now that I think about it, I think the person being interviewed was a private investigator, not a police officer.Hopefully Renee and Sarah can chime in since they both aren't from Hawaii but live/lived there away from friends and family.
I'm in the opposite situation...born in/mostly raised in Hawaii and now living away. I'm drawn back mostly because of family and friends. We plan to move back but we are lucky in that my grandpa left me his house, which is paid off. Otherwise, I don't know that we'd be able to afford it. Not without working our butts off, that is. And what fun is that?
I'd suggest checking craigslist to get an idea of housing costs. Rent is pretty pricey and the average home price on Oahu is $500K or so. And that's for an OLD house that probably needs work. Unless you live far from town.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
I've read news stories about people buying family members one-way tickets to Hawaii because they no longer wanted to care for them. These castaways end up in homeless shelters or living on the beach. Here's a news article about such an instance. I've heard about cities doing this, but I couldn't find any documentation of it.
I've also heard that Hawaii was thinking of buying one-way tickets to send the homeless back to the states they came from because the price of the one-way ticket was much less than the cost of social services. Here's an article.
Interesting, thank you! That's the reason the guy said the mainland cities were doing it - that it was cheaper than providing services - so it's interesting that HI is now thinking of sending them back the same way. Sad, though.
I was thinking more about the vacation vs living somewhere thing this afternoon. I think the reason I caution people about making plans to move somewhere after a vacation there is because although I've never lived in Hawaii, I did live in a very tourist-oriented city here in Australia. I have no idea how many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people passed through Alice Springs every year, but tourism was the primary industry by far. I worked as a waitress in the restaurant of an upscale hotel for a while, where I got a lot of comments from patrons along the lines of, "It's so beautiful/dramatic/historical/etc here, you must love it! I wish I lived somewhere like this."
But it's far different to visit a place, stay in a nice hotel, eat great food, spend money without worrying about it, and so on and so forth, to actually living there. Those sweet tourists didn't normally stay long enough or drive around the streets enough to see the other side of the city: the appalling homeless problem, the high crime rate, the hideous weather in the off-season (that brought more flies than I have ever seen in my life!), the low wages and high cost of living, etc. etc.
OP: I'm not taking a potshot at you for wanting to move to HI with any of this (trust me, because even for all my talk, *I'd* love to move to HI!) - just expressing my own experience with actually living somewhere that's a tourist destination, even though it's kind of off topic.
I totally agree with all that has already been said. I was born and raised in Hawaii and also lived/worked/bought a house on the mainland. I moved back to Hawaii a few years ago, and I am still outraged at how expensive and behind-the-times things are. It is a great place to live, but it comes at a price. Also, you need to be realistic and realize that Hawaii has its problems just like any other state. Living the daily grind here, I tend to take for granted how beautiful it is and how lucky I am to live here.
I was laid off from my job in May and it has been hard for me to even find jobs to apply to. I went to a job fair last week and I'd say that 75% of the booths there didn't even have job openings. As a previous poster mentioned, there are jobs out there, but they are more like entry-level/non-professional positions. Also, even without the bad economy, salaries here are typically lower than the mainland. Higher cost-of-living and lower salaries = the price of paradise. Many families are two-income households and/or work 2+ jobs. Housing is expensive and many have multi-generational houses because they can't afford it on their own. Also, everything in general is expensive, but it depends on where you are moving from. If you're coming from New York or San Francisco, it may not seem too bad. If you're coming from Nebraska, you will be blown away. In general, I would say everything costs about 25% more than the national average...and it's not just the big things like houses. You know Subway's $5 footlongs? They are $6 here. $1 doesn't sound like a lot, but it is a 20% increase...and when everything is just a little more, it adds up fast!
Once again, not trying to scare you or tell you you're crazy for thinking about it. Heck, I moved back here knowing all of these things. I do admit that there are days when I think about moving back to the mainland because I really want to buy a house, and that dream is so far away living here in Hawaii...especially when unemployed... If you are really serious about it, I would suggest looking online at job postings and housing/rental prices. Take a look at our newspaper (http://www.staradvertiser.com) and news site (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/) to familiarize yourself with some of the issues facing Hawaii. If you're still interested, apply for some jobs and see what you get! If anything, you may get a paid trip to come for an interview
Good luck with your decision...I'm glad you had a good time here 
Don't worry we don't plan to move any time soon & not without jobs/a place to live. NJ is also so expensive too which is why when people say HI is expensive we want to just say well so is NJ. For example -- our rent is $1,700/month -- the place itself is nice but not in a neighborhood where you'd want to bring up a family. Before we got married my car insurance was almost 2k a year & DH's was almost 3k a year. My health insurance is almost a $100/week (for just me - most basic plan). I also work in the legal field as a paralegal. I work at a big law firm but don't make a ton of money. Taxes in our area for a smaller house are probably 10k or more per year.
Basically NJ is expensive but the economy is OKAY depending on where you go/what field you are in. So that is why we wouldn't move anytime soon since I am sure finding a job would be very difficult. It's basically a pipe dream, but I'd love to find a way to some how make it happen & just wanted to see if it's all that its cracked up to be, etc. I guess I am just sick of NJ too & need a change...& I don't think many people come here & think I never want to leave haha.
You asked are you crazy? Yes, you are! I'm not being mean, just honest. I transplanted from the midwest to the west coast and then to HI with my DH. It was a GIANT move! GIANT! Being away from family and friends was horrible. I did make friends there but people are so transient, they come and go frequently. They may be your BFF one day and the next day decide to move across the ocean somewhere. We lived on Oahu so there was a fair amount of job choices for us both, I'm a nurse so it was very easy for me to find a job but it took DH about 2 months to find something.
As far as the economy and cost of living... We lived in a 1 bedroom condo in the city for $2500/month. We lived in a studio for $1700/month, those are average city prices on Oahu and the cost of living in Maui is higher! Milk was $6/gallon, our favorite bagels were $6 for 6 vs $2 here. Cereal was easily $5 a box. I'm not trying to discourage you but I also want you to have a very real picture.
There are tons of homeless people like the other ladies said. There is also some anger from some of the local people that "white" people are taking over their land. There were some girls that I worked with that refused to speak to me unless they had to and one girl finally said "don't take it personal but your a white girl and you guys are invading our entire island and driving up the cost of living for people that actually were born and raised here and belong here". It's sad but at the same time I can totally understand her frustration and anger. It was hard for me to get used to that at first. Where I'm from, I worked in the inner city and everyone seemed to get along pretty well with very little outward racism.
As far as raising a family there, do you plan on raising your children in the outshirts of town? Or in the city? In the city you'd have to raise them in a very small place to be able to afford to live at all. I didn't want to raise my children in a one bedroom condo with everyone on top of each other. We don't have a big house now but we are able to afford 3 bedrooms, a big backyard, a nice living space, etc.
As far as healthcare, did you know some people DIE on Maui just trying to get from parts of the island to the ONLY decent hospital on the island? A local lady told me that when I was visiting... I asked her how the healthcare industry was, being a nurse, I was curious, her answer nearly broke my heart! Many people have to go to Oahu for proper care that they need and any experts would only be found on Oahu. If you are high risk during your pregnancy, you are expected to deliver on Oahu if you really want your baby and yourself to survive the delivery....
Like I said, I'm not trying to freak you out, but you should have an honest, educated answer when making such a life changing decision. Good luck! You'd have to do more research on your own if you are truly serious, that's just my 2 cents.
I'm sorry to hear you were laid off, Jamie. I hope you find something really soon. Things have a funny way of working out sometimes.
We are in the same boat. MH and I have fairly good jobs and have a decent combined income. It just never seems to be enough, though. Well, unless we decide to live with a huge amount of debt, which we are not willing to do. We had planned to buy a house before having children. Now, we'll be making do with raising a child in our 732 sq ft, 2 bedroom townhouse.
Have you ever watched the TV show House Hunters? I cannot even watch that show anymore. For the amount of money we paid for our townhouse, we could have bought a nice, 3000 sq ft home on a huge lot in some parts of the mainland.
I live on Maui, and have read all the PP and agree completely. As far as animosity toward mainland people moving to Hawaii to make a life, yes it exists and yes I sometimes feel that way as well. I have a client from the mainland, in her 70's that came here to visit and loved it so much she decided that someday she wanted to live here. She listed herself as a resident (still can't figure out how) so that she could get on the waiting list for housing specially for the low incomed retired elderly. It took 2 years for an opening for her to move here, but she is taking housing away from the local community who need it as well. Honestly I don't have anything against mainlanders, but being local and seeing that majority of the people living in the newly built "affordable" homes are from the mainland, it is very discouraging. I have pretty much given up the idea of owning a home as has many other people my age. Unless you have family here that will pass a home down to you or you inherit, or you are okay with having incredible debt, chances are slim.
I grew up on Oahu and moved to Maui to get away from the congestion. The cost of living is extremely high and there is no such thing as affordable living. MH makes a substantial amount of money and I work 7 days a week, we still can't afford to buy a home. Up until 3 months ago we were living in the basement, a one bedroom Ohana, the landlords lived above us, with shared parking and constant noise. Now we live in a 30 year old cottage with a yard and a beautiful view, still though not the standard of living that we would wish for ourselves, but at least we have our privacy
Finding a nice condo like you could on Oahu dosen't exist here on Maui. Maui rentals consist of Ohana Units / cottages that in most cases offer little to no privacy, no yards, sometimes few parking and utilities NOT included. Unless you can afford to pay over $2000 for a decent 2-3 bedroom home, again utilities not included.
The medical industry is crappy here on Maui as well, it is a known fact that if you get admitted to the hospital, chances of you surviving are slim. A lot of Doctors are here on vacation doing rounds (filling in for another Dr. who is vacationing in the Bahamas) or couldn't get placed anywhere else. Yes there are no specialists here, you have to go to Oahu. There are many horror stories of people dying from infection or poor surgical procedures that were suppose to be a simple in and out operation. Yes many people travel and will pay for their own travel to get proper medical care on Oahu. Also, good luck at even finding a Dr. who will see you , since all doctors are not receiving new patients. My sisters DH had to remove her stitches after she had surgery on Oahu and was sent home, no Doctor would see her here on Maui even to just remove stitches, so sad. Recently a friends grandmother was admited for falling and hurting her hip. She ended up passing due to a staff infection in her lungs. Another incident is a friend of MH who went in for a colonoscopy and ended up being admited due to complications created by the Doctor, had to have surgery, then didn't make it.
Everything does cost more as well, we don't have what Oahu has. And if you find something you like online, you have to pay an arm and a leg for shipping. Or better yet, they don't ship to Hawaii at all. I do all my clothes shopping on Oahu when ever I am there for a visit. I'm flying in October and have been saving my money, I need a new wardrobe
and can't wait 
Other than that
living in paradise is awesome and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else 
Thanks, Nicole. And yes, I do watch House Hunters.. it gets me so riled up! When I see a couple complaining that the house only has 4 bedrooms and has a huge backyard but no pool...and then they say it is at the top of their budget...at $200k! They don't know how lucky they are! I start yelling at the tv. I made the mistake of starting to look at real estate sites on the mainland...that made me even more depressed! I would say my husband and I made pretty good money (when I had a job, anyway), and even then, we could not afford a house!
I've heard Hawaii's health care system is not the best before.
I told DH to "compromise" we could live in CA that way we'd be able to go to Hawaii more often. As it stands -- to go to Hawaii basically requires a 2 week commitment & that gets expensive (airfare alone is around 2k). We also have lots of family on the West Coast. However we both don't have a strong desire to move to CA. I guess it remains to be seen, DH needs a job first & foremost before we can decide anything.
Yes, I'm sad to say that racism and animosity towards the outsider does exist. I'm not sure if a lot of people outside of Hawaii know the history, but Hawaii was it's own sovereign nation with it's own monarchy, language, and culture. Their kingdom was overthrown by the white man, so that is where some of the animosity stems from. I was born and raised in Hawaii, but I would never call myself Hawaiian -- it is it's own ethnicity (it's not like calling your self a Californian or Bostonian). Also, a lot of locals feel like outsiders come in and take over without respect for the land and culture. I understand where they are coming from, but I'm not proud of the way they treat outsiders sometimes.
this. this is what we do. while I've also thought that I would *love* to live in HI, realistically, i know it's not the right decision for us. It would be extremely difficult for us to find jobs, and our financial situation would be severely compromised. Instead, we live in Seattle, where we can fly to HI for $300-$400 rt (per person). It's no further than NYC is, and it isn't hard to take a day or two off to go for a long weekend. We still don't go as often as I would like - in fact, we haven't been back since our wedding over 2 years ago! - but i like knowing it's there and we could take off for a quick getaway should we choose to do so.
Just to play devil's advocate, you could argue that the opposite is true - that locals work at the resorts, and the tourist money feeds the economy more than any other industry (I don't know if this is true - I'm just guessing since it is such a major industry there).
I totally see your point...but I could see another point of view as well.
There are various extremes to the way outsiders are treated, I'm not proud of it either, and it's not just towards people from the mainland who are "white" skinned. Animosity is toward anyone "foreign" to hawaii who disrespects and feels entitled and above the local people. I have experienced it first hand being treated inferior because I am local, as if we are ignorant and uneducated. This is were most animosity comes from. I have several friends who are transplants and I love them dearly because they respect the culture and what Hawaii is all about, they "fit" in. and I have met other transplants whom just didn't "get it" and often tried to force their point of view and attitude of "OUR WAY" is better, both in personal discussions and in the work place on a professional level. As far as tourism goes, yes we rely on it to feed our economy, and we work in the industry to put food on our tables. Remember though a handful of the workers in the tourism industry aren't from here either and are foreign to Hawaii as well, philipines, japan, korea, vietnam, samoa, marshalese, and more recently mexico. This is what makes Hawaii so unique and diverse. History will continue to repeat itself, and as much Aloha as we strive for. Racism and animosity will always exist. It is human nature and no matter where you travel, if you look for it you will find it. This debate could go on and on and take many different turns from many different stances from seceral points of view. Just know that vacationing in hawaii and living in hawaii are two seperate worlds. No one is discouraging you from moving here we are just trying to express the realities and experiences of every day life.
I think from this whole discussion, this is totally the key to take away! Vacationing there is fabulous! Life is NOT a vacation every single day!
Living there is REAL life stuff, money struggles, daily living, going shopping for things you need, getting sick, not going to the beach every day, work issues, family issues, life issues in general, etc...
My husband and I moved to Oahu a little over a year ago and it's paradise and rough at the same time. We are very, very close with our family and living here, we've just come to realize even more that family is more important than some magical location (although the homesick feeling goes down when we're on the beautiful beaches or eating ono food)!
I know some friends on Maui have been saying the economy is super rough out there. It's tight on Oahu too but if you are certain of a move, Oahu is your best bet because of the big city. Money is tight. I mean, everything is priced UBER high...from groceries to real estate, and ironic enough, it doesn't seem that the pay is much higher than, say, California where we are originally from (and the cost of living over there is cheaper than HI). I wouldn't move without having at least one of you semi set up for a job...especially with legal credentials. I would definitely check in to your DH's job opportunities before moving. I knew a couple who moved everything out here only to find that their job fell through and they had to move back to the mainland.
Also, another thing to think of is Hawaiian pride. Race is an issue. Not in every residence but it's definitely something I have noticed since our move. Yes, there is INCREDIBLE Aloha spirit but there's also a sad, high level of racism and outsider resistance that occurs to mainlanders who move on island.
Of course the beauty here is hard to compare too and the waters are incredible. Just weight out everything before making a move. Good luck!