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MIL spoiling BIL
Recently my H and I were put in an awkward position. H's brother (he's 22) attends college and works at McDonalds part time. He has his own apartment, so he has bills and such to pay. Well, my MIL pays for EVERYTHING that BIL does, everytime she sees him she fills up his gas tank and gives him $100 for groceries. She also pays his rent, utility bills, college tution, and books. So, the money that BIL does make (he gets about 30 hours a week) he decides to spend on Ambercrombie and Fitch undies, American Eagle socks, shirts, and jeans.
The position we got put in: The other night H got a call from his mom asking if we would take BIL grocery shopping (she would pay). Because she wouldn't be able to. I guess the reasoning is that he needs to learn to find deals, what is the best price for meat per oz, etc.
So...we're supposed to take him grocery shopping so he can learn to spend mommy's money wisely. Heres my thing- he has never had to use his money wisely, because my MIL pays for everything 'essential'. IMO the only way for him to learn to spend money wisely is to stop getting handed money, make him put his money towards bills, rent, school, etc.
H and I talked about, and its gone on for a few years now and doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. So H and I plan on talking to BIL about where his money goes, then we plan on having a talk with MIL to tell her that the only way he'll grow up is if she stops paying for everything. We figure that if we're asked to teach him how to get a deal, then we have a right to step in.
On another note: MIL doesn't help us in anyway. So maybe I'm just jealous?
Are we on the right track on this? Are we doing the wrong thing by stepping in? Has anyone else been the same position
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Re: MIL spoiling BIL
A large part of this really is MYOB.
That being said, you say you "guess" the reasoning she wanted to take him is to help him find deals. Is this the reason, or just your guess?
If it has been stated by her that she wants to help him find deals, etc, that is the only opening I see for your DH to say to her "I totally agree, mom, he does need to learn this. However, I think it's a more important lesson for him to learn to support himself on a set budget. I know you want to help him out, but right now he's learning nothing about saving and budgeting.".
Even if she wants to give him a set amount each month! That's fine to a degree. But filling up his gas, giving him $ every time he goes home - all this is teaching him is "just go home when youneed anything". if she wants to give him a set amount and from that, he has to pay his bills, buy food, fill up his car - that is still a far better thing.
But again - I dont' know how much of this is really any of your business.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I really don't see what the big deal is and why you're deciding to give him this 'life lesson'. Her paying for these things while he's in school doesn't seem to be THAT big of deal for me as long as he still does hold a job. If he was finished school or married I would have a different opinion of this.
Maybe it's because my parents helped me out a ton when I was in school so that I wouldn't have to have a loan (mind you I still paid for my tuition but they paid for everything else, including groceries), H's parents where the same way.
My parents still pay for everything for my little brother too how is 23 now because he's still in school. He works and has to contribute a small amount but they visit him just to take him grocery shopping or pay to get his hair cut. Once school is finished they'll help him for a couple months (like the did for me) until he finds a job in which he can support himself.
Really I don't think this is any of your business. If she's helping him like this it's her decision.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Seriously? MIL is enabling your BIL by coddling him and taking care of him. This sounds like my ex-FI, only he was 30! She's now passing the buck to you to do the enabling.
While none of what she does or what your BIL does with their finances are any of your business, I would not continue to enable this behavior. "Sorry MIL, we will not help BIL grocery shop and please do not ask again." and leave it at that. If it comes up or anything with their finances, "MIL we told you we will not discuss this subject with you." repeat and be firm and stick to it.
You're jealous that your MIL isn't buying your groceries and emotionally stunting your growth as an independent person? I think all of that bill paying, grocery buying, etc. comes with a huge price tag to your independency.. one which I would NEVER trade. This is why I left my ex-FI, he could not function as an independent person without his mother's help and she kept enabling the behavior. The scary thing is that she did like your MIL did, she paid for his groceries, bills, etc, but told him to move out to a house down the road from her house. She did all the things to make it look like ex-FI was being an independent person, but she was the one making the decisions for him.
MYOB. How in the world is this an awkward situation for you? If you don't want to go shopping with him, say no. If you have the time, go with him.
It's really not unusual for parents to pay their kid's expenses during college, and quite frankly it would be completely out of line for you to say something. I also find it weird that you know what kind of underwear your BIL wears.
And you really have the audacity to complain that MIL doesn't help you at all? You are in a completely different stage of life than your BIL.
(1) Plenty of parents support their kids while they're in college, even when the kids have a job. I think it's a good thing that he still has a job. I also have to disagree with your point that MIL pays for everything BIL does. You mentioned gas, tuition, books, rent, and utilities. These sound like normal living expenses. He seems to pay for the "extras" like clothing and entertainment on hit own.
(2) Why does it matter where he spends his money he earned himself? It's not as though MIL is giving him money for rent and he spends it on clothing and whines for more money. It's her choice to support him, and she's determined which expenses she is willing to pay.
(3) How did you guess that she wanted you guys to help him find deals at the grocery store when it seems like all she said was, "I don't have time to take him shopping, can you do it?"
(4) Just say you can't take BIL shopping if you don't want to.
(5) Maybe the reason that MIL's support of BIL hasn't been slowing down at all is because he's still in school and she's intended to give him this kind of support until he graduates. Again, it's not uncommon for parents to support their kids and pay for food and rent while they're in school. I think it would be a different story if BIL was coming home and whining for beer money every weekend.
Unless MIL has indicated that she's tired of paying for things and wishes that she could somehow make him be more responsible and has asked for your help in that endeavor, this is none of your business. I have plenty of friends whose parents supported them like this in college, and they're financially fine now.
I understand your frustration, however, it's her money and she can do whatever she wants with it. In MIL's defense, she gave birth to your BIL and if she wants to spoil him rotten then it's her right to do so.
On the other end, I don't think it's right that he has everything handed to him. But, that's not my business and it's really not yours, either. Maybe she doesn't do that with your H because he was more responsible and didn't need it.
Wanting to help BIL learn about money is a good thing, but trying to get MIL to stop giving him money really isn't your place.
I'm a little confused. BIL is old enough to go to college, but not old enough to buy his own groceries?!?!
I would tell MIL "BIL certainly doesn't need our help shopping for groceries!" and turn down that request. If BIL asks you for help, then by all means provide it. MIL can teach BIL to "shop for deals" by giving him a pre-paid gift card to the grocery store. After he spends it, he gets no more $$ from MIL.
I would not front BIL money for groceries and then ask for MIL to pay me back. If MIL wants to support BIL, then BIL can buy the groceries and she can pay HIM back. There is no reason for you to get in the middle of their financial relationship.
I don't think it's that bad that MIL supports BIL while he is in college. That's a choice that many parents make while their kids are in school. Depending on how much $$ I have when my kids are in college, I plan to support then so they can concentrate on school. Two married people are a different story.
You have NO IDEA why MIL asked you to take BIL shopping. She didn't ask you to give him any life lessons on spending money. She just asked you to take him shopping. I would NOT butt into BILs finances, or MILs finances. It's none of your business. At the same time, I would not help BIL grocery shop. You can't control BIL or MIL or tell them how to live their lives, but you can refrain from babying and enabling BIL. I was grocery shopping when I was 15! And I couldn't drive then - I had to carry groceries home or put them in my bike basket.
I don't really see how your MIL buying everything for BIL and BIL spending his money on expensive clothes is any of your business. Are you jealous she doesn't send you money or give you $100 every time she sees you?
What about your H? Did she help him while he was in school?
She asked if you would take him grocery shopping because she can't. If you don't want to just tell her you don't have time.
My parents covered room and board for all of my siblings. Some lived on campus, some lived in apartments - it was all paid, along with tuition and even books if needed. In fact, my parents really discourage any of us from working while we were in school, prefering us to focus on academics and college life. One sister picked-up a PT gig at the campus center during the year for drinking money. I worked 50 hour weeks during the summer to have the freedom and power that independent wages bring.
I could afford and believe I shopped at Ambercrombie and Fitch although my undies were from Victoria's Secret (a luxurty I do not afford now). I suppose all of my siblings and friends looked like spoiled rich kids. And I guess we were. But your assesment that " IMO the only way for him to learn to spend money wisely is to stop getting handed money, make him put his money towards bills, rent, school, etc." is completley incorrect. We all made very successful transitions from college life to adult independence.
I volunteered for a year after college, have workered full time in my chosen field since graduation, similaneously earned a mastere's degree, paid off two cars, put 20% on a mortgage, have a husband, a child and manage money very well. And my parents did little to no hands-on instruction on any of it.
I agree that such luxury is coming quickly to an end. At 22, he can be finishing his degree and looking to be independent this year or next. But nothing you described seem out of the norm and frankly, your reaction seems overly paternal and judgmental. You seem very justified to tell everybody else what to do over a simple request.
Money and spending styles really depend on two factors: whose money is it, and who are you spending it on.
1) Is it your money and are you spending it on yourself?
2) Is it someone else's money and are you spending it on yourself?
3) Is it your money and are you spending it on someone else?
4) Is it someone else's money and are you spending it on (that same) someone else?
Each of those levels have different levels of personal behavior/responsibility attached to them, and from what you've posted, BIL is in category 2 and MIL wants him to have the same attitude that he'd have if he were in category 1. But you know how to make him change his attitude? Change his category.
Of course that's not something you can do. This is between BIL and MIL and for her to drag you into it isn't fair nor is it right - if she wants his attitude to change, she either needs to change her behavior or accept that this is how he is.
MYOB. Yes, I know that's hard. But it's not really anything that you have a lot of control over. Besides, you and your H may come out looking like you're jealous if you say anything.
Now, if you take him grocery shopping and help him figure out how to look for the best deals, sales, etc. That may help him a bit, however if you're not comfortable doing it--tell MIL you can't do it.
OP - I really wish you'd come back and address some of these issues/ questions because this is something else I'm wondering-
is this request of hers for you to take him to the store new? Is she now starting to focus on teaching him about money because the gravy train may be coming to an end?
As many people have stated, her paying his living expenses while he's in school really isn't all that off the wall. But she may see an end in sight, and in turn, wants to start getting him up to speed, and is asking for your help?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Please elaborate as to what she listed falls outside the categories of school expenses and basic living expenses. Tuition + books = school expenses. Rent + utilities + food + gas = basic living expenses.
No amount of education could convince Betty to be nice to possums
Thanks for all of the replies. I guess it is a deeper subject then realized when bringing the matter about, and quite frankly I feel like a 5 year old who just got scolded! I now realize that it really is NOMB and will keep my thoughts to myself when around H's family.
My parents helped me out monetarily through college. I too had a part time job. It was really nice because with their help I got out of school debt free. (Of course I married a man with loads of school debt....stupid out of state tuition!)
So MYOB. And just because he spends his money on clothes... so? Maybe he knows once school is over he won't have a lot of extra money for clothes so he's buying them now. And just because he hasn't had to budget doesn't mean he doesn't know how.
There is literally no way you can involve yourself in this without coming off as highly critical and judgmental of your MIL's parenting.
Trust me...you don't even want to go there.
You have your opinion about how young adults can be taught fiscal responsibility; she has hers. If, in five years, your BIL has massive credit card debt and a huge car note and wants to live with her because he can't pay his rent, then you can say "I was right!"
Until you have some proof that he's a financial idiot, don't judge her parenting.