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Request from FIL
I'm going to try to explain this in the clearest possible way, but it's kind of complicated, so bear with me.
My DH and FIL are planning a "guys only" trip to a college football game next month in "Footballtown." FIL initially reserved four hotel rooms for the trip, since they didn't know how many rooms they would need. Now, they know they only need two rooms; when FIL tries to change the reservation online, the price of the remaining two rooms goes up.
DH and I are going to Footballtown for a game/homecoming this weekend. DH is involved in several homecoming activities, so we're going to be pretty busy all weekend.
So, here's the point: DH told me that FIL told/asked him to go to the hotel where FIL made the reservation and try to "sort out" the extra room situation this weekend. Am I crazy to think this is a completely unreasonable request? First of all, as far as we know, FIL hasn't even tried calling the hotel. Second, we're not staying at that hotel, so we'd have to make a special trip. Third, the reservation is, obviously, in FIL's name and on his credit card, so they won't let us make changes to it anyway (DH is a Jr.; we think FIL thinks DH can just pretend to be FIL).
I think my FIL is being ridiculous. DH is going to tell FIL that we won't have time to take care of it, but he's pretty sure FIL will push back. I'd LOVE to tell FIL off, but 1) that's not my place here and 2) it wouldn't help anything.
And, while I'm at it, here's another question: Have any of you observed father/son relationships where the father expects the son to wait on him? My FIL will, for example, expect DH to hop up and get him a soda refill if they're at a fast food joint, or expect DH to jump out of the car and pump his gas if they pull into a gas station. It's so weird to me; my parents asked us to help sometimes, but they never pulled in and sat at a gas pump and/or waved a cup in our face until we waited on them. Any suggestions on how this cycle can be broken? DH is over it (and should be at age 25), but is afraid what he wants to say -- the politest possible equivalent of "I'm tired of being your b**ch" -- will come out wrong. I get the impression FIL used guilt a lot when DH was a kid, and DH is having a hard time breaking this cycle. I don't have the best relationship with his parents, and I know I can't give him objective advice here. As always, any advice will be appreciated, ladies.
Re: Request from FIL
The hotel situation seems weird -- I don't know why he would make reservations without knowing what he needed. When I do it in advance like that, I always err on the side of caution, so IMO, it's he reserver's fault. He should deal with it.
My brothers and dad have the same relationship. They're 17 and 20. When older brother moved out, my dad kept asking younger brother to do things and kept intentionally doing them wrong. Eventually, he just started calling older brother to do them and told him no, flat out. My dad freaked out and screamed at him and then ignored him for 2 weeks, thinking he was punishing him. When my dad decided older brother had had enough punishment, he called him to say he got some new toy in (some kind of tool) and he could come over and see how it worked if he wanted. Older brother told him that he wasn't going to talk with him until he apologized for his rude and inappropriate reaction. Dad got mad again and younger brother started telling him 'no' too. He kept getting grounded and having his cellphone and car taken away but after a few weeks my dad realized that he wasn't going to have any kind of relationship with them if he didn't stop treating them like his ***.
Of course, there wasn't a magical it's-all-better-ending, mostly because my dad has a temper, but it's gotten better. He doesn't just expect them to do things because he knows that they won't.... of course, he started doing it to my sisters, which makes me thinks your DH is just going to have to stand up to him. It will be uncomfortable but it's probably the only way to do it. I would say something like, "Dad, you don't ask [friend, brother, mother] to pump your gas, so why do you expect me to do it? Am I less important than them or just more fun to yell at?"
GL!!
Etsy shop
It seems to me that the second part is not "another question" - it's related to the first problem. Your FIL doesn't pump his own gas b/c your H will do it. He doesn't fetch his own soda b/c your H will do it. Why would you expect him to try to fix his online reservation on his own, if he knows your H will run and fix it? Your FIL will NEVER change on his own - why should he? He has a pretty sweet deal going on!
Your H doesn't need to say "I'm tired of being your b*t*h" - he just needs to say "no." or "that won't work for me."
Let him start this weekend, by telling his dad "we're not going to have time on our trip to fix the reservation. You'll have to call the hotel on your own." Yep, it might make things difficult, but if your H is going to have to decide - does he want a relationship where he is his dad's servant, and is that better than his dad being angry with him for a few weeks?
My mom didn't make requests like that from me, but there was a point where I couldn't take her company. She can be very bossy and controlling, and was always crabby when I was around. She is usually a nice person, but definately did not treat me as well as she would have treated a friend or neighbor. I "fixed" it by severely limiting my contact with her. I also spoke my mind when I was offended by a comment. We actually have a better relationship now - - although I don't see her all of the time, by choice.
I totally agree with this; it's basically exactly what I told him again after I posted last night: "Just tell your dad 'No." DH's response was "I've tried and it doesn't work." I asked him to elaborate, and the most I could get out of him was that at times in the past, when he has refused to do what his dad asked, there have been "consequences" and "something did or didn't happen." I asked DH what he meant and how old he was when that stuff happened, and he said he didn't remember. I asked him to think about what possible "consequences" his dad could hold over him now. DH has said he's going to tell his dad "No" about the hotel thing. We'll see how FIL responds.
I think what it comes down to is he's afraid his dad won't be mad at him for a couple weeks, but rather that he'll be mad at him indefinitely. To that I say: Where's the problem? Why would anyone want a relationship with someone who treats them like crap? And FIL knows DH doesn't like doing this stuff -- DH rolls his eyes, says no and then eventually gives in (why, I don't know). But you're totally right, it won't stop until DH starts saying "No" consistently. I'm hoping that once he says "No" the first time he'll find it empowering and keep doing it.
I can totally relate to this as this is how my father has been - and still is! The best part about it is that now that I'm not younger and don't rely on him or my mother for any type of help, he can't hold anything over my head. And after a few times of telling them no and the world not blowing up, I feel more comfortable and confident doing it to the point where I don't even question or think about it anymore.
Maybe it'll just take your husband saying no and then realizing that the world didn't end to see that it's okay if he disappoints his father as he's not the one responsible for taking care of him.
The worst short-term consequence that will happen if your DH refuses to check on the motel is that your FIL will cancel the "father-son" trip. If your dh didn't book the reservations, he's not out any money. And if he did, he can always plan a trip with a buddy for that weekend. He can request another room.
I think you need to step back and allow your DH to handle this. Your H knows what he has to do, and he knows the possible consequences. If he grumbles that he "really showed my dad I was unhappy - I rolled my eyes at him!" but he still pumped your FILs gas, have a lot less sympathy. "DH, you could have said no, and you chose to roll your eyes and fill his tank. That was a choice you made."
It's entirely possible that your FIL will stop speaking to your DH. Tell your DH "if you're afraid your dad will stop speaking with you, then keep acting like his errand boy, but stop complaining to me about it." Also, your H has some alternatives - like never accepting a ride from his dad (this weekend let your H take separate cars, and be clear about when he will and will not drive.), walking out the door if your FIL asks for a soda, etc. Sympathy from you (or your anger on his behalf) is part of your DH's reward for being FILs errand boy.
Seriously, your DH needs a pair of big boy undies.
I feel like this is an overwhelming theme in this forum, but I'll say it again - you teach people how to treat you. You really do. If you fall down and lick their boots every time they tell you to, they'll learn that all they have to do is tell you to lick their boots and you will. If you leave the car and go and pump the gas everytime they tell you to, they'll learn that all they have to do is ask. And if you obey their every wish and command, they'll learn that they have power over what you do.
But if you all of a sudden change, and stop doing those things, they'll react with surprise and shock. Because it's not what they're used to, it's not what you've taught them. If they're very immature or vindictive by nature, they'll stop talking to you or give you the silent treatment. Usually it doesn't last very long because they will, soon enough, "forgive" you for your disrespect and give you another chance. And then, if you say no again, they'll be angry again and either yell and scream, or give you the silent treatment again. And this can repeat ad nauseum (sp?), but the fact is that ultimately, it's for your own good.
If you ask me, if my father treated me this way, I'd much rather have him out of my life. He doesn't (I can't even imagine...) but would you rather be in someone's life because you wanted to, or because you were blood and you "had" to, come what may? For me, it's the former.
YES! That's a lesson I was raised with; I don't think DH was, but he's starting to realize how true it is. It shouldn't matter whether someone is blood or not if they treat you like crap. I don't know why people think they're allowed to treat relatives worse than they'd treat friends. But I do think DH is ready to tell his dad "No" this time and stand his ground; if he doesn't, he won't get much (if any) sympathy from me.
Here's my take- he doesn't have to out and out say "no" w/ some of this stuff. W/ this weekend "If we have time dad, but I doubt we will. Be prepared to call next week". Then simply don't do it and let his dad deal w/ it next week. his dad says "make the time!", your DH says "As I said, we'll see.". Period.
W/ the soda, "Once i'm ready to get some soda for myself, I'll get you some too.". He says "I want some now!", your DH says "Well, dad, you know where the machine is. I'm not ready to get more yet.".
But really- as already said, your DH has to put his big boy pants on for ANY of this. his dad does this because your DH is afraid to say no.
However, what do youall REALLY think the consequences are going to be? Will his dad be mad? Sure. Will is dad briefly not talk to him? Perhaps. But in the long run, would his dad REALLY never talk to him again because he didn't get soda? Eh, probably not.
Or if he did, I don't know how upset I'd be to lose contact w/ someone who would really react like that. As I've said many times, being "Family" isn't an excuse to treat people rudely.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
My MIL-to-be treats my SIL-to-be like this all the time. Every time we go to SIL's house, MIL expects to be waited on completely, even if there are a lot of other guests around and SIL tells MIL that she knows where to get more of whatever, which is really funny when you consider that she doesn't ask where the bed is before she goes and lies down in the middle of the party... As irritated as SIL gets, she doesn't actually say anything to MIL, so it continues. All of MIL's kids have a problem telling her that her behavior is not acceptable, except FI when he gets fed up with her and then he often gets backlash not just from his mom but his siblings as well. They all thought that I was completely unreasonable when I actually told her no, she was not allowed to just take a bite of my ice cream bar at some family event (yes, I had to literally put my body between her and the ice cream).
People get conditioned to thinking and acting certain ways and until they make a choice to change it, there's not much anyone else can so for them expect point out the unreasonableness of the behavior when it occurs. If/when his father gets angry at him, just support your DH, tell him to hold his ground and that he's doing the right thing. Telling his father no is not hurting your FIL, regardless of how he might carry on about it.
When I was reading the first part of your question, my reaction was to reply with, "If it's not too far out of your way, humor him and go to the hotel and see if you can straighten things out. If it IS too far out of your way, just tell FIL, 'Sorry, can't do it' and let him deal with it himself."
However, like PP said, the first issue absolutely ties into the second one, with FIL expecting your husband to do his work for him.
Yes, I've seen it happen. Your husband just needs to say, "Dad, you can handle that yourself" or "No, Dad, I won't do that." FIL will probably complain and moan and accuse your husband of not wanting to help him or be kind to him. And what will end up happening is that FIL will eventually suck it up and do it himself, or he'll be stubborn and refuse to do it and then he just won't get what he wants at all. Like a five-year-old.
Then, once he wants something again, the hard feelings will be forgotten and he will be back on your husband's good side.
It's an endless cycle. Your husband needs to put a stop to it NOW. "No" is not a dirty word.
My mother asks me to sort things out for her that are ridiculous. I would take the path of less (not exacctly least cause I wouldn't make the trip) resistace and call the hotel, ask them if they would even let me mess with the reservation, then honestly be able to tell FIL that they said we wouldn't be able to do anything about it. No trip to the hotel, just a call.
My mom wanted me to take my sick two year old to the bank and close my grandmother's accounts once (grandma thought her purse was stolen). Despite the fact that my mom's name is on the accounts. Seriously? Like they are going to let me close her accounts- call them yourself lady.