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Giving money to MIL- how would you feel about this?
So MIL is older (late 70's) and recently windowed. I guess in his family it has always been customary that the kids (there are 6 of them) give their mom money for stuff- like a new roof, or if she needs cash for a bill or whatever, just because. Once H gave her money (a few hundred) without asking me and then we discussed how it is really important that we both agree on these things together and before telling her yes/no. So he's cool with that.?
She called H today and said the fridge at one of her restaurants broke down and she needs $700 to fix it. This is not a loan, it's just money. We can afford it right now, so I said okay. The thing I think is a little odd is that he wants ME to give her the money, when it's usually him, or I guess us together, but still by him. And his explanation was a little odd too- he wants his mom to understand that "I" have the control of the money and that I have to approve large sums of money that go out. I don't know why this feels a little off to me. I'm not super close with her, though she's lovely. I don't know if it seems like charity, or he's trying to make a point of some kind, or just trying to get me to go over to visit (I haven't seen her in about a month). Or does it not even matter??
Do you ladies give $ to your IL's (not loans, gifting money of any amount)? Who physically gives it- you, H? ?How do you feel about gifting money to your IL's?
Re: Giving money to MIL- how would you feel about this?
First, your DH needs to stop this "my wife is in charge of the money" carp. You are a partnership, not a parental relationship. Basically, he is trying to make YOU the bad guy for any nos. What a wuss.
Second, since this is a family "custom", why not work it into your budget? Budget out a set amount of Spending Cash (SC) for both of you AFTER you budget your expenses AND a good savings account.
That way any money that MIL may need comes from your DH's SC fund. That way you will never be the bad guy for needing to say no, because if there isn't enough money to give, its because DH did not save enough.
DH and I have SC funds just for this reason, though its me who spends money on my family in ways that DH may not approve (he cannot understand why my SIL gets a $150 diaper bag, even though she is having twins and needs a big butt bag).
Yep, everything Ilumine said, plus:
If it were me... I would want to truly understand her financial situation and WHY she needs money regularly from all 6 children. Did they not plan well, was there no life insurance / savings when her husband died? If she's just bad with money, I can't say I'd give her a penny.
And what is up with the restaurant that it cannot pay for its own refrigerator? I have to say that in particular is a red flag to me.
I'm not saying I wouldn't help my MIL if she needed it, but I would not want to be continually surprised by it. I want to know the plan, and set aside a line item in the budget as suggested so that everyone is on the same page and doesn't start expecting more than is comfortable.
Slowly but surely.
I read it as him trying to make you the bad guy as well.
I also, don't get the restaurant that can't afford a fridge. I mean really? You're paying for her business expenses? If it can't afford to buy a new fridge, than there are much bigger issues here, and your MIL needs some serious financial/business advice.
No we don't give money to either sets of parents.
We did offer to contribute to FIL's funeral as we didn't (and still don't) know MIL's financial situation. She declined the offer.
If you're ok with giving the money, then I don't think it's a big deal who actually hands it over. Plus who hands it over isn't nearly as important as what your DH is syaing and thinking.
Is he telling MIL, that YOU might say no? Does he think you're being unfair or unreasonable? Does he have concerns over how his siblings may view you both if you turn down a request etc etc etc
This feels like one of those situations where you need to talk with DH more about what's going on for him.
Of course it feels wrong, your husband threw you under the bus.
All money decisions should be joint ones. My DH and his 2 bros sometimes anted up for certain things his mom needed. I think it was more about demonstrating care for her well being rather than because she couldn't afford it. I didn't love the idea of her getting all new carpet or a new washer/dryer when it wasn't in my budget, but whatever. We only got stuck for 1/3.
Underwriting a business? That's wack, especially if she is operating a chanin of them.
I also dont get why you are giving money to someone that owns her own restaurants(plural).
Im not opposed to helping people who are in dire straits, but she sounds fishy to me. She has six kids that are giving her money--sounds like a nice part time job.
And yes- your DH is trying to make yo uthe bad guy.
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Ummm..... how many restaurants does she own? Is this a family business? Do you and your H get any kind of income from these businesses? This sounds so not right.
You and your H need to be a unit on money decisions. He is wanting you to deal with his mother with money because he doesn't want to be "the bad guy" when you say no. I agree.... Wuss.
What bother's me about this, is it sounds like she has several (at least 2) restaurants that are bringing in money.... AND she is still asking ALL 6 of her kids for handouts.... AND expecting them to cough it up. It is one thing to lend money to fix an appliance that is at her home, but at one of her businesses? No.
Sara, Friend?
glove slap. I don't take crap.
Yeah, this whole situation with regards to money and this family is a little odd. I don't know if you care about the details of the back story, but they used to have a lot of money, one of the oldest siblings screwed the family over in a HUGE way and they lost A LOT. So it's sort of become this Catholic guilt thing- parents provide for the kids, kids provide for the parents, especially since she is not nearly as comfortable as she planned to be. A change in city planning has really eliminated much of this restaurant's income, so it's almost been more of a hobby for her. But yes, this money thing has become an expectation.?
I'm glad you guys are getting this. I couldn't really put my finger on why it felt so weird. ?
Hmmm... I think that sucks. If my MIL was in need or dire straits, I would help. If I was just keeping her in the lifestyle she had hoped for, that would be another thing. Then again, a new roof and a restaurant refrigerator sound more like "needs." So I still don't understand which it is.
I think you and your husband need to have a serious talk about he reality of her situation, and the reality of what you can afford, and the truth about what YOU think about the situation. It will probably not be pretty, but it's necessary to come to some kind of sane agreement about it.
Personally I'd be asking a LOT of questions, and putting my foot down.
And a restaurant is not a hobby. It's expensive. If it's not solvent, and you end up footing the bill, that is ridiculous. She needs a cheaper hobby.
Slowly but surely.
No, we don't give money to in laws, my parents, family members, etc. Doesn't matter if we have it to give or not, luckily they have only asked on 2 occasions because we don't make things like that a habit, it has to be a serious one time situation, not a constant they "expect it" type thing.
Your husband is trying to put the pressure/blame on you with the money. You control the money? Come on now, he has given her money before. It's like he's trying to stay out of the situation so he can put it off on you. There are lots of red flags here, she has a restaurant she can't afford and she expects her kids to support her? I don't agree with that.
vjc- I think this could be part of this.?
MIL is a VERY simple person. She lives in a nice neighborhood, but the house is older, she never buys clothes, never goes out to eat anywhere but Sizzler, rarely shops. Generally these things are "needs" like a roof, which she probably could afford, and this fridge was an unexpected expense- it's not that old- so we don't actually pay for any of the upkeep of the restaurant. ?
I think this is also a cultural thing- the "sons" (SIL is pretty much also excluded) have achieved success (2 BIL's run their own companies, etc) and it's a sign of respect or success that you can pay for your parents needs or give money just because. But since the economy and construction (BIL's are in construction) has evaporated, the other brothers can't give anything at all, and so if an actual need comes up, we are really the only ones who can help.?
H knows that if we give money, this is coming out of his discretionary money, and often his overtime. Again, it's not that we are giving her money, it's the way that seemed off to me?
So MIL is older (late 70's) and recently widowed. I guess in his family it has always been customary that the kids (there are 6 of them) give their mom money for stuff- like a new roof, or if she needs cash for a bill or whatever, just because.
Once H gave her money (a few hundred) without asking me and then we discussed how it is really important that we both agree on these things together and before telling her yes/no. So he's cool with that.
Positively wrong.
She called H today and said the fridge at one of her restaurants broke down and she needs $700 to fix it. This is not a loan, it's just money.
Nope. This is wrong.
We can afford it right now, so I said okay.
No this is NOT okay.
She owns more than one restaurant yet she's pissing and crying the blues to your H for money?
No, this has to stop.
I'd be livid at my H -- he should have gotten into the game when she began this and said, "NO; my wife3 and I cannot afford this; do not ask us for money again" and that should have been the end, even if meant she never spoke to him again.
Let her ass sell one of her restaurants if money is so tight for her. Too bad.
Say no to this starting right now and if he fusses, let him go home to live with her.
YOur idea of a marriage dynamic is wrong as is his. YOU AND HE are THE FAMILY, not his mother and siblings.
It sounds like the six of them would prefer forking over money whenever asked rather than do the hard work of really being helpful. Like looking into getting a buyer for the restaurant, or a line of credit for these kinds of unplanned expense or adjusting lifestyle expectations (the horor!) or any of the basic things that are being ignored in lieu of blindly giving money for household and business costs.
I bet your MIL thinks she's keeping some big inheritance going for her kids. That she doesn't want to dip into savings or close any of the non-profitable restaurants out of some sense of misguided legacy. She's probably thinking its all coming back to you all 10x over if she keeps it going.
She's probably wrong and its a shame that no one will tell her.
Does she even have a trust? What if she needs long-term medical care? Even something like rehab form a fall for a simple broken bone? Is all of this in her name - house, businesses, property, cash? Does she realize that she's going to have to liquidate all of it to pay for medical care before Medicare kicks in? Is planning to do that? Want to? The reach-back to look at finances is 5+ years, so she can't just start transfering assets if she falls ill.
It's really a rather BIG issue. If no one is asking or helping then the cash-when-asked is the least you can do. The very least.
What would happen if you said no?
If the situation seems odd, it probably is.
We have helped my parents/his parents out, before and after getting married. But most of this is helping get things done/fixed with their houses, only seldom is there a financial component. I would imagine if there was a crisis and they needed money we would help if we were able to.
However...
The restaurant is a business, and any money she needs for repairs or replacement of equipment should be handled using the store's funds- not from the pocket of family members. Neither you, nor your husband (nor any other family member) should be paying for it. If this particular restaurant is doing so bad that it cannot pay for its operating costs then she needs to sit down with a small business adviser and figure out the problem and determine a solution that does not involve the family.
You should really sit down with your husband and hash this money issue (giving her money on a regular basis) out for your own sanity and the health of your relationship. It's one thing to help out family but it is another thing to have family always expecting a handout on a regular basis.Sara, Friend?
glove slap. I don't take crap.
Or let her sell them and open something much smaller and more easily handle-able for a 70ish year old woman.
STOP ENABLING HER. And I'm serious about sending Junior home to live with her if he wants to keep giving her money.
Helping out yoru MIL for personal expenses and emergencies is one thing.
Helping to fund/support her business, though? NO. She needs her restaurants to support themselves and be able to cover things like broken refrigerators. If she can't do that, than any money she receives from you must either be a LOAN or give you an interest in the business. On paper, in writing, a real contract, in either case.
And a promise to leave you or H an interest in the business in a will isn't good enough. Wills can be changed at any time. If you're paying into her business, you need an interest in it NOW.
Get a lawyer.
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First off I'd have a good long talk with my H about his throwing me under the bus and making me the bad guy. Marriage is about working together, coming to agreements together, and for you to the be the one to make all the financial decisions just yells that he's weak and conflict-avoidant.
We've never been asked for a penny by any family member, and if we were, we'd make darn sure that it was a life necessity and not a luxury item. The restaurant(s) sounds like a luxury (if it's not paying for itself, that's exactly what it is!), and then, by definition, the refrigerator is one as well. I'm not going to agree to our paying for anyone's luxuries, family or not.
It seems like your husband is more comfortable going with the status quo (of giving your MIL money) and if there is any change, he would prefer she know that you are the one creating that change. Ergo, if money is not provided at her request, it is because you "handle the purse strings".
Family decisions, especially those about money, should be presented as family decisions. You and your husband handle the money together, so as I see it, financial decisions/loans/gifts/etc. come from the two of you. It sounds like you and your husband need to have a conversation about how you will present yourself to the rest of the family.
I went through a similar situation with my husband, not related to money, but related to information shared with the rest of the family. My husband's family is very open with their personal information (I've heard way more about my MIL's gyn health than I ever need to know). My family is not closemouthed, but we are certainly not that open, particularly about money. So my husband and I had to have a very frank conversation about our comfort level of shared information. My MIL and SIL felt "cut-off" when my husband and I came to the mutual agreement to limit information shared. At the beginning they did blame it on me, and quite frankly, I was the instigator. My husband did a great job of repeating how this was a family decision and not just a decision made by me. We still have problems every-so-often, but are getting really good at holding our own. It takes both husband and wife to make this work.
Personally, I'm from a large, Catholic family and I know my parents (plus aunts & uncles) help out my Grandma from time-to-time with necessities if they go over and above what she can afford on her fixed income. Some day my siblings and I may be called on to help our parents with major expenses when they are in their retirement. But bankrolling a business would be beyond our capability and I would look to help them sell. A business is not a necessary expense and is one that can become very financially draining very quickly.
I, too, find the idea of giving her money for a business odd; if the business can't sustain itself, it sounds like there is a bigger issue that someone needs to help her resolve.
That said, I'm not certain that your husband realizes he is making you the bad guy in the event you say "no" in the future; in his mind, you are saying "yes" right now, and he may not be thinking of future situations. I have an aunt and uncle who are very generous with my grandmother, and my grandmother *always* credits her son and not my aunt. Your husband may be trying to make a point that this is your money, too, and that your MIL needs to keep in mind that she is asking *you* (and not just her son) to make sacrifices on her behalf. I would be more worried if he was asking you to tell her no. I'd ask him to clarify why it's important to him that you hand MIL the check and then state that it's important to you that he handle any any refusals in the future -- but don't start off by assuming he means to blame you for any refusals. He may just be trying to make his mother appreciate you more (and think twice before casually asking for money).
Wow, thanks for all the different responses everyone. ?Again, I really don't think H is intentionally trying to make me the bad guy, and I feel likw perhaps he is trying to put into his mother's frame of reference that this money is really coming from both of us.?
But beyond that, your responses really led to a good discussion between myself and H. We spent quite a while today talking about our ability and willingness to give money to his mother. We talked about how if his mom needed her OWN fridge fixed, we would be willing to fix it, but if her business has an expense that she cannot meet, that needs to come from a different source.?
And also let me clarify- she currently has 2 restaurants, each with 2-3 employees. But nonetheless, none of the siblings really "wants" to help with the businesses and it is time for her to sell them if they are no longer profitable and use that money to meet her own daily expenses.?
No we have not and will not give my MIL money. We have given her advice on how to live within her means, saving, budgeting etc, but she will not listen. I honestly think she has a shoppong addiction; however, since she does the majority of her shopping at consignment and second hand stores, she does not see it. According to her, only rich people have shopping addictions. Last time we saw her, my husband was pretty honest with her and told her that she can spend her money however she pleases, but if she gets in trouble, don't expect us to bail her out. We have our own retirement, home, savings and children's college funds to worry about. This upset her A LOT. I am talking sobbing and accusing us of letting her live on the street. My husband did not falter. She can have her own retirement and savings, she just doesn't want to make the necessary adjustments to achieve that. We are not about to sacrifice our children's future because she can't say no to a stuffed bear wearing a hat.
I really don't know what advice I can offer besides it is ok to say no to her. Trust me, the world won't end.
FWIW, we give money to the MIL, but she's disabled, unable to work, and its set bills and groceries every month that I do budget for that her income cannot cover.
Buts its good you guys talked because the main thing that would set me off is it was for her business. Glad you guys have worked on this so well!
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