Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
s/o welfare
I think what Tbvenable and I wish (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth) is that people had more personal responsibility. Hear me out.
DH and I are waiting to have a child. Waiting until we have debt paid off, money in savings, etc. You know, the responsible thing to do, right?
Well, it really chaps my a$$ to see my own family members that have gotten pregnant, had baby, not paid a dime, and are living care free. I've even had DH's brother BRAG to me that they had no hospital bill at all after having their baby, when they easily could have waited a few years to be more financially capable of raising a child.
I have one cousin in particular who is the laziest b!tch alive. She didn't finish high school, has never held a job, blah blah blah. So, she gets pregnant. Doesn't pay a dime for prenatal care or childbirth. Pays $25 a month for an apartment. Food stamps, WIC, daycare all paid for.
I don't think punishing the child for their parents' choices is right, but I do wish there was a way to instill a little more integrity in people. What do you think about this?
Re: s/o welfare
I'm Liberal Lucy, and I actually agree with you on this. BUT the problem is, we want low-income people to magically adopt middle class values when few people they know have them and when they're in direct contradition to the structurally-induced conditions in which they live (e.g., the concept of delayed gratification is great for obtaining higher education, but when you live hand to mouth and are worried about if your job will still be there tomorrow or if you'll have enough food for dinner, it's hard to pick that up anywhere.) Today's 6 year old innocent growing up in a family like you described is, 10 years from now, tomorrow's single mom. We just sort of magically expect her to get her sh!t together over those 10 years when none of her role models have and none of our current institutions are willing to help her because it's her "personal responsibility" to do so.
The OK Policy Institute reports that over 1/3rd of babies born in the state are Medicaid babies. Clearly there some larger force at work in this state (and others) than just a couple of lazy individuals.
I do not have any problem with programs that helps children get the proper care they need (i.e CHIP healthcare programs, WIC, foodstamps, Medicaid). It's not a child's fault his or her parents cannot provide for them and I gladly pay taxes to help these kids out. Do I think the government has enabled people to not have a work ethic and learn to rely on others with their hand out, at times yes, but there is no easy humane solution to fix this problem right now.
Besides those programs are not what is wrong with our economy. The excessive spending and government waste (by both parties) on programs that are pointless (like the over building of low income housing in this post katrina area that not ONE person lives in yet they are still building 5 more housing areas). Fill up what you have first people, but oh heck No, since the governement is offereing the money people are going to take it. The government is paying private contractors $200,000 a year to do the same job overseas that a trained person in the miltary makes $36,000 a year to do. Why not utilize the manpower you have instead of hiring 2 people (and paying 1 a lot more) to do the same damn job.
.
I think we can all agree that personal responsibility is a factor that is missing from various arenas. I can also agree with you in your frustration on being responsible and feeling chaffed. In saying that, we cannot assume that our "standards" can easily be applied to certain income levels.
I think this statement goes back to another controversial issue, do you (in general not OP) feel that low income- as in poverty stricken, people should be able to procreate?
I think my answer is obvious. However, this is a conversation that is going on in America mainly due to our economic stance.
If gay marriage and polygamy were legal in Oklahoma, I would propose to you now.
I don't really have the energy to form a coherent response of my own right now, so I'll just steal this.
I think everyone agreed that there are people out there abusing the system and yes, that SHOULD make you angry (my own mother was one of them, and you're damn right that it angered me too). Those people are breaking the law and taking advantage of a system designed to help people in need.
That doesn't mean that implementing any of the policies discussed in the other post will magically instill your work ethic or values in anyone. What those ideas would do is 1) increase total cost 2) unfairly target certain groups and 3) leave some families with even less resources to get by.
Also, I find it interesting that the current fastest growing group of welfare recipients is college students, yet there's no mention of that demographic in any of this talk. Are they lazy and lacking in personal responsibility too?
Oh boy. I had so many friends that were on government assistance while they were in college. I don't get how those people were able to sleep at night. It is one thing to be on government assistance because you really need the help - I get that - but because you are too lazy to wait tables at Chili's and want to spend the weekend drinking and chasing after frat boys? Ugh, you don't even want to get me started on that. But yes, again, lazy and no personal responsibility.
Surely you can look outside your experience with these people and see that there are students who are trying to pay tuition, pay childcare, pay rent, buy books, etc on a minimum wage salary?
I work at a university with a high population of single moms and kids raised in poverty. It's literally 10 miles from even a small town. It's difficult for many of them to find work, or get to work, or to work enough to support their families. They aren't lazy, they are juggling responsibilities and working their assses off to better themselves.
Dude. I worked two jobs throughout most of college and still didn't know if I was going to have money for food sometimes. It wasn't about being too lazy or wait tables or chasing frat boys, it was about not having enough money to pay for tuition, books, rent, gas, insurance, food, etc. I didn't apply for food stamps, but again, poor = = lazy.
Did you read my entire post? Did I say that all college students on government assistance are lazy pieces of sh!t? No, I did not. I said that I have a problem with college students being on government assistance because they want to drink and play with frat boys rather than wait tables at Chili's. There is a huge difference between what you are refering to and what I am refering to.
If you want to see a prime example of this - check out Chapel Ridge apartments in Norman. At one time it was Section 8 housing - and the parking lot was full of luxury vehicles - all college students.
Can you please point out to me where I said poor = lazy?? I also worked multiple jobs to put myself through school. My point was: a lot of people where I went to school were on government assistance so they could avoid getting a job and have a social life instead. Government assistance should go to those that really need it. If you can party on the weekends, you can get a job.
Apparently I am not communicating very well, but I find it hard to believe you are okay with someone being on government assistance because they would rather party and hang out on the weekends than get a job?
Okay, I'll admit I read your post originally as very generalized. After a re-read, I see more clearly what you meant. I'm a little jumpy and hot under the collar with all this stuff today.
Clearly.
complete with church choir!
Awwww! When we both move to some fictional Utah-Massachusets hybrid (Iowa???), "Yes!"
THANK YOU very much for posting! These are the types of cases I am talking about.