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Let him cut them out? - Long, vent
My husband and I have been married for a little over a year. Just a bit of background - he's Indian and his family moved here from India when he was 12. I'm Caucasian and have always lived here. My IL's believe very much in "traditional" Indian culture - my H and BIL lived with their parents, all of their money went to the parents to maintain the household, and his parents wanted to arrange marriages for both boys. Needless to say, they weren't too happy when I came along. They wanted H to marry an Indian woman who would take care of the household, and instead he married me and we moved out.
While it's been a difficult road, I've done my best to be respectful of their culture, feelings, and differences. I let my H handle any disagreements, and he is wonderful about standing up for me. The issue is that things have gotten worse with them lately, and he is strongly leaning towards just cutting them out of our lives.
One issue is finances. Their honest to god retirement plan is to win the lottery. Any extra money went towards building a mansion in India (not exaggerating - marble floors, 2 family enormous house, complete with a live-in maid and driver). Unfortunately they're now so broke they're declaring bankruptcy and couldn't afford to replace one of their cars when my FIL totaled it. We're paying for cell phones for the parents and my BIL, and helping out with a couple of other bills, but they constantly want more because they're used to having my H's income going to them. Last week they called H and said they needed to borrow our car. When I asked him for how long, he said for December. Yes, for the entire month. Needless to say, H said no. He tried to compromise and offer it for a week, and the other weeks to help out with driving people places, but they said no and got pissed at him.
The other issue is how they are with me. I'm overweight, and working hard to lose weight, but in the past 4 months I've lost 25 pounds. On Thanksgiving we called to wish them a happy Thanksgiving since we wouldn't see them until late that night and my FIL got on the phone to tell me that we're having two Thanksgivings (one with each set of parents), so I need to really watch what I eat because a lot of the foods are fatty and they all stick to me very well, and then proceeded to lecture me on losing weight. At dinner that night he asked me what my waist size was. My H blew a gasket and didn't even want to go to dinner that night, but I told him that they don't mean to be cruel, but they're just clueless and honestly believe that it's okay to say things like this to people. I also break out like I'm a freaking teenager (I'm 29), and they make comments about that all the time too. H wanted to call his dad back on Thanksgiving and rip him a new one, but I wouldn't let him because he's done it numerous times before and they just don't get it. They speak frankly about these topics to each other and their own family, so they don't get why it's not acceptable for them to speak this way to me. Because of this I know that they don't intend to make me upset, though I wish that since they've been told over and over that it does make me upset that they would just stop making comments.
Anyway, between Thanksgiving and the car situation and constant money stuff, my H is just beyond frustrated and doesn't care if we never talk to them again. His view is that they're not nice to me and only want to use him, so why keep them in our lives? On Thanksgiving we were at my parent's for 5 hours and his for 1.5 hours. My parents sit around the table with us, ask us about our lives, work, what movies we've seen, whatever - they just talk to us. His parents never ask us or our BIL (who still lives there) how things are going. We'll ask them about work, church, whatever, but they never reciprocate. My H is in a management training program and they don't know about it because a) they've never asked and b) he's worried that if they find out they'll want money when he gets a promotion. They show no interest in either of their son's lives unless it somehow effects them. With my H seeing the differences in our families and how they interact with us, he's hurt and pissed.
My issue is that in this culture especially, family and respect are HUGE. He lived there until we got married (he was 25), and I know he cares a lot about them, but that he doesn't know how to make a relationship with me and one with them work. So while I know it won't be my fault, in the end he'll be cutting them out because of me, and that sucks. As much as they drive me up a wall, I would hate doing that to him. Cutting out his parents would most likely mean cutting out his entire family because of how that culture is. I'm torn because I push him to call them and maintain a relationship and try to work out compromises when in the end I would personally love to never talk to them again. If it were my family acting like that I know I would cut them out, but I'm having a hard time being okay with him doing it because it's so hard to think that someone I would do anything for will be missing out on a huge part of his life (his family) because of the fact that he's with me.
I don't really know what I'm looking for here. I guess suggestions, validation, reassurance, outside opinions, I don't know. After writing all of this out, I think I probably need to back off and not push him one way or the other, but just let him know that I appreciate him supporting me and putting me first, and that I will support whatever decision he makes. I should not force him to maintain these relationships, even though I know that if I were removed from the equation he would have a good relationship with them. I'm going to hate watching him do something that will hurt him so much if he chooses to cut them out, but it's his decision.
Re: Let him cut them out? - Long, vent
WOW.
Impossible for me to respond to all of this, but truly, I feel for you! What a rough situation.
My two cents:
His relationship with his parents (without you in the equation) would not be "fine" it would be just what it is- them being selfish and irresponsible with $ and trying to use their children to compensate (apparently, from what you've written) Now that he has seen how your family compares, it sounds like he no longer regards his home life with them as normal or desireable. If he cannot trust them to be happy/proud of him for a new promotion without asking for more money... well, that is just CRAZY to me!!!
I get what you are saying about them being from a differnt culture and maybe they don't know asking questions about weight and food, etc is sometimes rude.... but if they've done it multiple times and YH has corrected them--- they now know EXACTLY what they're doing when they poke and prod for personal information like that.
Congrats on your weight loss, and for having found such an understanding husband. Sounds like you two will have each other's backs no matter what he finally decides about cutting ties... and that is all that matters in the end.
Lol, thanks, I think I just needed to hear that. I think if this were were written by someone else I would think "WTF is wrong with them", but I just keep feeling like I'm being selfish to let (I hate that word) him to give up something so huge for me.
And PP, thanks, I appreciate your response. It is a hard situation, but you're right and he's seeing how a family is supposed to be. Mine's insane and has their moments too, but everyone genuinely cares for one another and shows interest in each others lives. I figure I'm lucky to have such a supportive husband and he's lucky to have (mostly) sane in-laws!
I had issues with my ILs originally. They're very traditional Greek Orthodox, and the fact that I'm a non-Christian was HUGE to them. Fortunately, they got over it and DH didn't have to choose. But I reminded myself often that, if he had to, it wouldn't be because of me. It would be because of them, and it would be DHs choice. You said it yourself when you said
He's chosen you. That's what marriage is all about. Yes it's sad that it is at odds with his cultural heritage, and that his parents can't/won't adapt to that. But if this is the choice your DH wants to make then he has to accept the consequences, and it seems from your post that he's able to do that.
I've never said it to my FIL, but I've often thought that if he'd done such a great job of raising DH in the family culture, then DH would never have fallen in love and married outside of his faith in the first place. Not that I'm calling the ILs bad parents by any stretch of the imagination, but honestly...if those values were going to be instilled in DH for life, it was going to happen long before I came along and due to them. That it didn't stick well enough to guide DHs life choices isn't my fault, and while I felt badly about the rift with his parents when it was going on, I never felt guilty or responsible and that helped keep our relationship strong and let me continue to "kill them with kindness" (which I think helped a lot in the end as they came to respect me as a person and as their DIL).
I'm glad that your DH supports you. So many posts on these boards are just the opposite that it's nice to see a man who sticks by his wife. Good luck!
Exactly! I strongly believe that if my in-laws expected my H and BIL to maintain the traditional Indian way of life and to marry Indian women in arranged marriages that they should have stayed in India. Now they're shocked when neither of them will allow a marriage to be arranged... That's just not how things are done here, and they both grew up here.
The part that I bolded is definitely not lost on me. I think it would be easier to say "Pick - them or me!" if my H wasn't so supportive, but since he is so great I hate that he has to choose. But you're 100% right and both of our lives would be easier if I didn't feel guilty and make this about me, because it's really not. The more I think about it the more I realize that it's pretty crappy for me to try to make him have relationships that neither of us want because it just creates more stress. I guess sometimes you just need to write something down to see how ridiculous you're being.
If HE wants to cut them off, it really is his choice. The best thing you can do is be supportive of his decision.
It's not because of you, either -- it's because of how his parents treat the woman he married. There's a difference. Don't feel like you bear any responsibility or that you are the cause in any way.
Wow is right.
Culture is one thing -- but being rude and having no self awareness that what they are asking of you is rude is quite another story.
It is very positive that he's got your back. From what you've described, he's on the same team with you and that's the way it has to be: YOU are his family now, not his mom and dad.
He should simply make it clear to them that their behavior is rude -- cite the "how big is your waist" question and tell them, as politely as possible that he won't be in contact until they start treating you admirably.
These people need toughlove.
GL - let us know what happens.
I'm an American married to a guy whose parents are Indian (he was born in London). They were PISSED that we got married, but we get on a lot better now. I will say that my FIL did shut his brother out of his life due to these expectations on him to basically pay for everything in teh family (he's the eldest brother)...it got crazy with them abusing him and my MIL...so now they won't talk or see each other. It's not unusual for this to happen in some families, regardless of culture. And when we first got engaged, we were "this close" to cutting off his parents as they were saying awful things about me.
Some of this may take time - he may have to 're-educate them' on what is and isn't appropriate (believe me, Indian women wouldn't take it either unless they were really backwater - most of the women I've met are more Western than I am!)...they are still living in the past, which happens with people who leave their country which is starting to move on and away from the old regimented male-female roles.
I don't think they'll ever really get what's appropriate and what's not, and I'm okay with that. There's really only one or two topics that I'm very sensitive about. Everything else I just laugh off, because honestly, half the crap that comes out of their mouth is hilarious. His mom is constantly on different diets and to hear about some of them makes me laugh for days. The way they think about everything is so backwards that it really is amusing. It's just the rude comments and unrealistic financial/logistical expectations that cause problems. What's most hilarious is that my MIL is one of the most outspoken women that I've ever met. My theory is that she wanted her sons to marry quiet Indian women who would do what they're told so that she wouldn't have anyone to challenge her in the house. Their plan, when they win the lottery, is to buy a big enough house so that we can move in and we can all live happily ever after. We don't even bother correcting that since the entire plan is based on them winning the lottery...
I was really hoping that our story would be like yours - difficult in the beginning, but you all learn how to interact with each other enough to have functioning relationships for when you all get together. I tried going for walks with his mom, helping drive them places when they needed it, go to temple with his dad, do what I could to get to know them and let them get to know me and see that I respect them and they're culture, but it doesn't seem to have done any good. I'll just keep being nice and respectful and let my H deal with things as he sees fit. Thanks for the advice!
First of all, I think it sounds like you have a WONDERFUL hubby. So many of the problems on this board are caused by the fact that a husband can't or won't stand up for his wife.
Secondly, this is his family, and his life. Just as most on here advise people to let DH deal with his family, I think you should stay out of this one. Just be there for him, and whatever decision he makes, support him. Whatever he does, it's not your fault!
It sounds to me like you're a fantastic daughter in law, and overall better person, than I am. I would have screamed cut them out long ago.
I'm dealing with similar cut out or not issues, so I just want you to know that I feel for you, and I'm thrilled that you have such a loving, supportive partner. My husband's pretty ok himself, and it's hard to watch them have to make such a terrible choice, especially when you feel like it's your fault. I agree with one of the above posters, however; their relationship would have dissolved anyway.
The culture issue is tough. It would seem to me that they've lived in America long enough to at least absorb some of what's the norm over here, so the fact that this has continued (despite your husband's attempts to intervene) is just astounding. I agree with you--she didn't want anyone as outspoken as her in the household, nor did she want to lose her son and his financial support.
Honestly, I'd let him cut them. It seems like you're at least a little bit fond of them, which makes it more painful, but also implies that they are not completely evil. The shock may help them come around.
Also, great job on 25 pounds.
I'm not fond of them, but I'm quite fond of their son
It makes my blood boil to see that they never inquire about his life or show him any consideration. But I believe that you catch more flies with honey and all that jazz, so I do my best to keep my opinions to myself when I'm around them. I figure they did me a favor by raising my H to be the wonderful man that he is, so the least I can is show them a little respect, even if they haven't earned it. At the very least, it makes my H's life easier.
Ha. I stand corrected.
Well, again then--you're a better person than I. I really hope this gets resolved for the best! I know a quite nice indian family that has been here for 20+ years now, and they are still quite traditional. However, they have held on to those traditions without doing anything that is culturally inappropriate (and their son is married to an american woman).
Hopefully they turn into the above family! Otherwise, please don't blame yourself. You've been more than nice about it, and more than supportive to your husband.
If not cut them out of your live?s at least cut them off financially. I would think they'll probably just cut you out since it only seems they only want your DH's money.
Your DH sounds like a good guy. Let him make the call and support him on it.
I can understand that you'd feel bad about your husband cutting off his family ... but if HE wants to do it, then it's his call. And if he is comfortable with the idea of separating himself from blood relatives, then you should try and accept it, too.
And like a PP said, it doesn't sound like he's getting anything positive out of this relationship with them anyway. It sounds like they are just critical moochers. It may very well be their culture and just a matter of "that's just the way they are" ... but you don't live in India, you aren't living under their roof and you aren't being supported by them, and therefore you don't have to take this from them.
Plus, what happens if/when you have children? Do you really want your in-laws treating their grandchildren the same way that they treat you? Don't subject your kids to that kind of crap.
For the sake of the children that will enter into this union, they should grow the eff up and act like adults. Who wants their kids near people like these? They'd get animosity and resentment from godparents?
What was that expression...oh yeah: for the love of Truffy, cut them out.
You have my sympathies. They sound toxic and vile.
I'm sorry, I think you're thinking a little bit too much of yourself and how'd you feel if he cuts him off. You don't want to feel guilty and you don't want him to resent you.
Maybe if you start thinking it more from his eyes. He's a man that doesn't want to be disrespected or his spouse disrespected right before his eyes. He wants to be out from under their thumb and stop living this cloyingly enmeshed unbalanced life with his parents. He wants to make steps forwards in becoming the man he wants to be. He also probably wants to establish clear boundaries before any babies come along. I say support him in that.
Usually with big changes in families (marriage, retirements, etc.) people are going to get upset, stubborn, or unhappy with things not going the way they envision them. These things tend to pass (the actual anger). But they don't tend to really change unless there are consistent and actionable consequences. And even then they might not change.
If he cuts them off, whose to say it will be forever. If they come to him willing to change then he can go from there. If they refuse, then it is THEIR loss.
It sounds to me like they're in the wrong country. I'm not kidding. They seem to have a very difficult time blending their traditional Indian customs and expectations with the customs and expectations here in America - socially, financially, etc. They have every right to their Indian values but are refusing to accept that there's more to life than simply what they are used to and in doing so, can make others feel terribly awkward, inconvenienced and even hurt. I'm sure a lot of spouses of (fairly recent) immigrants feel the same way you do. It can be terribly frustrating when people act like they're not open to anything but their own heritage. Flame on if you must, folks, but I have never understood why some people move here in the first place and pretend they're in another country altogether, citing their heritage/traditions? The reality is, there are many opportunities here in America, but don't use them for your personal gain and give nothing back to society, claiming your customs won't let you. That's a crock of bull.
Anyway, tiny rant over. It's his decision to make. Let him make it and don't you take on any more guilt about it.
I'm in somewhat of the opposite situation where I'm the one debating if I should cut off my family and my FI keeps encouraging me to try to work it out but he's starting to see that it may not be possible. I have amazing future IL's that have become more like parents to me than my own and I don't want my own parents' negativity bringing down the joy of the rest of my life (or showing their negative qualities to my future kids).
If your H is having thoughts about cutting his family out, they started long before you were in the picture. You've shown him what family can and should be like - a loving, supportive environment - which is great for both of you and enables him to make the decision of whether or not he wants his family to be part of his life. I understand what a difficult and sad situation this is for both of you and the best is just to be supportive of what he feels is right. Until I met my FI and his family, I thought I had to just put up with my family's destructive behavior because they were the only family I had. Now I'm in a position to make a choice about what's best for me going forward - which is empowering, scary, sad (that I'm losing one family) and happy (that I now have a supportive family unit).