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Underpaid? - Long, a little rambly, but I'd love opinions!
Do you ever feel that either you or your DH is underpaid for the level/quality of education that you have and for the amount of experience you have? I know that I'm underpaid. I have six years teaching experience and because I've moved districts so much, I'm on step 4 instead of step 6, which equates to about $6-7K. As a teacher, my salary isn't tied to the quality of education I received, but I know that it is (or at least where you interview) in most other career fields. (BTW, if I'm completely wrong, here, PLEASE enlighten me!)
DH is severely underpaid. We're talking anywhere from $15 to $40K underpaid. He's 31, with an ivy league undergrad and an honors program masters, working in NYC, and makes less than $100K a year, and while that might seem like a lot, his counterparts in his group with the same experience making much more than he is. Part of it comes from the fact that his manager is more than a little crazy, and DH is afraid to approach her for a raise. But I also think that part of is that he feels unworthy of a raise.
We talked a lot about houses last night, and where we can live once kids are involved. I start work at 7am, so he's going to have to be the one to get kids up and out. But the problem is that our jobs are literally 2.5 hours apart. He works in Manhattan, and I'm out on LI. He also takes the train to work, I drive. Right now, to be at work at 7am, I'm out of the house at 6:20. I have begged to move a little closer to my job, but we realized last night that it's just not possible. I'm not happy about it, but it's just not possible while he works in Manhattan. I asked him to see if he could find a job out on LI, but he said that his industry isn't really out on LI, it's in Manhattan. He also "knows" it would be a huge pay cut. I don't know that I believe him about the pay cut, I do believe that finding a job on LI could be harder, but I don't believe it's impossible.
I know that money doesn't buy happiness, but I also know that for where we live, we don't make enough money to own a home. I CAN'T change my salary, unless I get more education, which I am set up to start doing in May. But I'm frustrated. And I told him all of this last night, and I didn't do it in the nicest way. He doesn't get interviews. He makes poor decisions regarding his resume (he spent $400 to get it redone and he hasn't gotten a single call since. Not one! I told him I didn't think it was a good idea and he did it anyway, and now we have to redo it. Again.), and I don't think he's aggressive enough in applying for jobs. It hurt his feelings. I apologized for the WAY I said things, but I'm not apologizing for what I said. And I feel crappy about it, but I don't know what else to do. I also told him that he needs to stop making me feel like crap for accepting a job so far east - it was the ONLY job being offered to me in a time when teachers are getting excessed left and right, and I was one of the lucky ones to a) find a job, and b) find a job in such a huge district that they hired 3 other music teachers after they hired me.
In most cases, he's truly a wonderful man and husband. I adore him. I don't know what it was, but something in me snapped last night. I just see people around him advancing and I see my friends' husbands and fiances advancing and I get frustrated and stuck. IDK. WDYT?
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
Re: Underpaid? - Long, a little rambly, but I'd love opinions!
I'll be honest, I do not feel that we are underpaid, especially in this economy. Instead I feel blessed that we make what we do. I have also switched districts a number of times, by choice, and I am not as high up as I would have been if I stayed in one place. But I am happy with the decisions I have made over the years.
I would say keep talking to DH about his job/salary and searching for new jobs. Is he unhappy with what he makes? We all need to take an active role in building our career; it rarely improves without work. It sort of sounds to me as though he needs to take some initiative. (I apologize if this sounds harsh).
The living situation is tougher. Someone is going to have to make a sacrifice in the future, particularly if you will be continue working once you have kids. It is hard for both people to work far from where you live and have kids in the middle. You need to consider child care, what you would do if a child got sick and you were both at work, and like you said, who will get the kids up and out. Luckily, you do have some time to figure these things out. I know you do not plan on having kids yet. But it does sound as though you still have a lot of talking to do on these topics.
Try to not broach them all at the same time. It may seems overwhelming to DH and make him more defensive, which would make you more frustrated. Pick your battles!
Good luck!
In terms of being paid, I do feel blessed and grateful that I have a job, I really do. I am a bit frustrated, though, that I make the same salary that I was making five years ago. Granted, I was working in a district where the salaries were very high, and took a 25% pay cut when I changed districts. But the fact that I still haven't recovered from it smarts sometimes.
In terms of DH's job hunt, he claims that he working at it, but I never see him do it. Ever. I don't know if he's doing it from work, but I remember that when I was job hunting, it took over my life. I was CONSTANTLY on job sites, printing resumes, etc. He talks all the time about having to re-do his resume, but it's still not done. And I'm afraid to say anything to him about it because I feel like it would be nagging.
And with all of the issues hitting at once, it always feel like when we're talking that one issue just streams into another, KWIM? To me, it wasn't a matter of attacking them all at once, but more of a matter of how the conversation flowed, as they're all related. It definitely makes him shut down, but I also know that he hates having difficult conversations, and avoids them until they MUST be dealt with, which drives me nuts!
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
I completely understand! After 2.5 years getting a master's, working for a year, then taking 6 years to get a PhD... I expected to make a little more than I was with just a Master's. But I didn't. In those 6 years, salaries for technicians rose... while salaries for post-docs have not increased since 2001 (or 2002). The salaries are set at NIH, with a starting salary of maybe $36.5k (it may be a little more to start off with for no experience, but the cap is still around 50k). This may seem like a lot- but when I lived like a college student for 6 years, and still had to take out some student loans along the way... that is NOT enough to live on when paying back loans and stuff. I did not have time to get a second job, as I was normally working 12 hour days, at at least 8 on weekends. I took a job back in Ohio thinking that at least the cost of living would be lower- but was surprised to find that although I got a bigger apartment, I had to pay more to not live amongst students and that heat was not included. I had about $50-100 extra per month. Normally the NIH budget is increased when Democrats are in office, but... not with this economy. The budget is just keeping people afloat, really.
About a year into my first "real" postdoc (I had worked for a year or so in my old lab), I decided I did not want an academic position at a research oriented university! My boss at the time was still working 12-14 hour days just to keep getting grants. I decided having a life was way more important to me than academic success... and l then got back together with DH a couple months later, then got engaged, then I fell into an awesome job (right place, right time, and was exactly what I wanted even though I didn't know it before I heard about the job!)
Trust me, I totally know what you mean about being underpaid. I feel like I should be paid more but I'm really not too bad. DH on the other hand gets paid peanuts. And by peanuts, I mean he could be making more if he worked part-time somewhere. He brings home barely $600 a MONTH. Granted he is only an educational aide, but he does more work than most aides. He actually teaches (lesson plans and all) a few classes a day. He tried getting paid more...at least getting paid a partial teacher salary since he's doing teacher work, but they refused.
As much as the situation sucks, we deal with it because he's found that he loves teaching and coaching. And now he's able to job hunt KNOWING what he wants to do instead of finding something he thinks he might like for a little while.
Regarding the kids situation...like others have said, something is going to have to give. You do have time to make those decisions and figure things out but you have to know that one or both of you will need to make some sacrifices.
Have you ever thought about moving to another city? Just wondering.
Lburkey - We talked about it briefly but DH is pretty adamant about staying in NYC, as he feels the other cities in which he can find employment are Chicago and San Francisco. If we moved, while there might be potential for his salary to increase (we're not even 100% sure on that one), I'd have to get re-certified and we would definitely see a decrease in my salary. As "underpaid" as I feel, I also know that teacher salaries on LI are higher than most of the rest of the country. We have talked about moving and about the fact that if we lived in a different area of the country that we could buy our dream home and pay off 50% of the mortgage to start, but we'd also be leaving all of our family and most of our friends. All of parents are here, as is much of my extended family.
We sort of feel stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to housing - I was looking again today and found three houses under $410k that I really like, but he has to open his eyes and be willing to consider other train options, which has been very difficult in the past. I'd be willing, as a last resort, to consider other districts (AGAIN), but to be honest, this is my 4th district in 6 years and I feel that I need to get tenured before trying to find a new job - I mean, at this point, who would hire me due to a spotty resume? And if I AM going to change districts, I'd rather do it following a maternity leave, where I can explain a gap in my resume and why I want to change districts, if that makes sense. But really, I'm in a good position, apart from the location, and I'm protected, so I'm really hesitant to leave.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
If you don't mind me asking - what is your DH's profession?
I guess if it were me, I wouldn't completely rule out moving. I know you said that teacher's salaries are some of the highest on LI and that DH might not make more money by moving - but at the same time....NY is an INSANELY expensive place. Much more expensive than most other places in the country.
I don't know. I guess you just need to really sit down with your DH and decide what are the things that are most important to you. If NYC/LI provides all those things for you then you're in the right spot and you just need to figure out how to get to the next phase in your lives. If NYC/LI doesn't provide everything for you, then it might be time to start looking elsewhere.
What about moving to NJ or another are of NY? You said that you'd be more comfortable changing districts coming off maternity leave - so, why can't things remain as is until it's time for a baby? Then you'd be home with the baby on leave and you could look for/get a job at a district that would be closer to home/the city.
I don't know...just trying to throw out as many options/thoughts as possible!
It also sounds to me like you DH isn't ready to make any changes to his routine. I think first and foremost you need to have a good, quality, no yelling discussion about your next step as a family. Until your DH is ready to make some sacrifices too then I'm afraid to say that it's going to be an uphill battle the whole way.
Lburkey - I hear you on this one. Loud and clear. DH's specialty is risk management/trading - he was an options trader before he went to grad school and his ideal job would be back in risk management. He was a low-level manager before grad school, but had been told that he wouldn't be able to advance any further than he was without an MBA.
I love him to death, but he's been very spoiled when it comes to his routine. When he lived with his parents, he was able to walk to the train station. When I found our current place, he wasn't thrilled with how far it was from the station - 15/20 minute walk as opposed to the 10 he was used to. I basically told him to suck it up and deal, that we weren't going to find anything better for the price, and he caved. So now, instead of walking, he drives the 1-2 minute drive to the extended lot, parks there, and walks the 10 minutes from the extended lot to the platform.
His parents were (and still are, to some extent) very overprotective and they sheltered him more than he realizes. He's starting to see that now, after 2 and a half years of living together and five months married. It's been a very slow process to open his eyes that not every can live the ideallic way of life that he grew up with, having a parent home when you get home from school and having them able to transport you anywhere you need to go. I grew up in single parent homes and we made things work. I know that he wants me and eventually our children to have the best quality of life possible, but he also needs to understand that sometimes, it can't be what you might have been used to.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
Tell him to quite wasting money (I'm sure parking isn't free!) and walk the extra 5-10 minutes when the weather allows him to do so!! Or get a bike and ride his bike to the train station. Just my $.02 on that!
I just think it's going to take some time for him. Unfortunately. Everyone wants to have the best quality life for themselves and their kids but you also have to realize that getting there invovles some give and take. And maybe being in a situation that you don't like at the time but you know for the long-term it's the right choice [take our situation for example. We currently live with MIL, DH making practically nothing - see above - and will essentially live our first year of married life in the loft of MIL's condo. As super sucky as it is, we know that when we come out of it we'll be in a better position to have that better quality of life]
I think the only thing you can really do at this point is just keep talking to him about it. As frustrating at it can be sometimes, the best conversations and the ones that he's really going to take something away from are going to be the rational, calm talks.
As a (former, out of work) teacher, and as I understand it, you wouldn't have to get re-certified unless your PRAXIS scores were lower than the state standard. As long as the states you are moving between have reciprocity, you just have to submit your old teaching license and a bunch of paperwork (praxis scores, transcripts, etc) and a form and poof, they process this and send you a license for the new state. I got certified to teach in PA, and then got a job in VA, the process was as easy as that (plus taking an english language comprehension test due to the makeup of the state). For more info on switching state certifications, you can check here: http://education.uky.edu/AcadServ/content/50-states-certification-requirements
I think NY has pretty good reciprocity from what I recall when I was looking for jobs initially (I know PA had reciprocity with like 45 states or something insane like that) so if you did leave, you'd be in good shape, in terms of your certification.
I can't speak to much of the rest of your post, this is the only part I could help with. Good luck with figuring things out; and I agree with a PP: tackle the issues one at a time.