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Sister & BIL's divorce
My sister and BIL announced in late September that they were getting a divorce. The split was my sister's idea, she has been very unhappy for the last two years and counseling did not help. Every Sunday we have dinner at my parents house. My BIL was not there when she told us and informed us that he would no longer be coming to Sunday dinners. They did not tell their two children (10 and 8) about the divorce until mid-October.
On October 10, I had my youngest DD's dedication and my sister asked if BIL could still come. I had agreed because they hadn't told the kids yet. Ever since they had told everyone, he stills comes to Sunday dinners. We chalked it up to them being civil for the kids because of the holidays. BIL was still coming to all of our events. My youngest niece turned 3 in November and he came to the party. Even on Sundays, everyone is more quiet because of him. My parents are
different and everything. I don't even think my sister asks my parents
if he can come, she just brings him.I really believe everyone is uncomfortable but no one will say anything.
But now that the holidays are over, we are thinking that he will not be coming to anything anymore. He just moved out last Thursday but will still be going to the house regularly for the kids and such. My sister is an RN and works the night shift.
My dilemma is my youngest DD is turning 1 this month. And we don't want to invite the BIL. I've talked with my DH and we are just uncomfortable with him being there. We also just figure why would he want to come. He did email me and my other sister after she told us about the divorce to see if he could still be involve in our kids' lives. He is their uncle. I responded to the email by saying that "Yes, sister (his' now ex.wife) is still watching my kids 3 days a week and at his kids' sporting events." I didn't mention birthdays or anything like that.
Should I call my sister first and give her a heads up about the invite or see if she says something to me? I've address the envelope just to her.
Re: Sister & BIL's divorce
Why does he make you uncomfortable? It doesn't sound as if he was a jerk to your sister and she seems to have friendly feelings toward him. Why wouldn't you continue to ask him to family events, as long as your sister is ok with it?
As long as he continues to be a decent human being to your sister and the children, why would you not extend invites? He may decide to decline them in the future, when he is involved with someone else, but for right now, be the bigger person and leave the door open - it is just good manners.
Why don't you want him at the birthday party and why are you blaming him for your parent's/family's behavior during dinners and holidays? No where in your post did you say anything about the way he treats you or your family so I am guessing you are either uncomfortable he is still around or blame him for the dissolution of the marriage.
I don't know why you are causing drama here when there's really not much drama in your situation. So the guy comes to your holidays and dinners because it makes HIS kids feel better during what is a difficult time in their family. I'm failing to see how this affects you at all.
My take- someone needs to talk to your sister and get a better idea of how she and BIL have decided to handle the divorce and the kids. Between the two of them, they may have changed their minds on how to handle things, and you never know- he may still show up at Sunday dinner.
Don't make assumptions. Talk to her. Feel her out.
You have every right to not invite him. But if she is of the mindset that anything involving the kids means he's included, she may invite him herself. She may assume that you all are fine w/ this since nothing has been said to the contrary. She may feel his acceptance at the SUnday dinners means you all will do whatever it takes to make this easier for them.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Divorces can be very awkward to deal with as a member of the extended family. Without knowing the exact details of the divorce, I'm sure this is very hard on your BIL to have to go through this, and still be a part of your family after knowing that they are splitting up.
I think it is very nice that your BIL wants to still be a part of your kids' lives but I think the reality is, it wouldn't last. I've seen my sister divorce 2 guys to see how this works out. They try, but once they move on, the involvement slowly vanishes.
Also, I truly believe that your loyalty should lie with your sister, which means, invite your sister only and if your sister asks if he could come (which I really doubt she will) then talk to your husband about it and go from there.
If your sister is O.K. with him being at family events, then I don't see why you should exclude him. Especially since he's said he wants to stay involved in his kids' lives. He'll always be their dad.
Ditto PPs ... why exactly does he make you uncomfortable? Is he saying or doing things at family gatherings that make it awkward for all of you? Is he being nasty? Or have the rest of you all just decided that it's an awkward situation because he and your sister will be splitting up? If he's not actually saying/doing anything to bother anyone, then I don't get why family dinners are suddenly silent when he's there. Are you all just avoiding talking to him?
Couples can split up and still be considered family members. My uncle and his wife divorced a few years ago, after 20+ years of marriage and raising four children to adulthood. My aunt still participates in family gatherings ... she was invited to my wedding and sat with my uncle and their kids, she sends/receives cards for special occasions and holidays, and she was included in a family tree portrait we got Grandma for Christmas. My uncle visits her sometimes and helps out around the house if she needs it. In fact, she and my uncle get along WAY better now than they did when they were married. Their divorce really seems like it was the best way to preserve their friendship.
Again, if your sister is fine with him being around, and he's not saying/doing anything to cause a problem, I think you need to stop creating a problem, because there doesn't seem to be one from this post.
I am wondering why your BILs presence puts such a damper on family parties. It seems as if the divorce is amicable, and that it was your sister who is the one who doesn't want to be married. Its not as if BIL left her for another woman and you have to explan that.
The "awkwardness" seems to be a choice your family is making. He's still the same guy he was last year, when your sister was trying to be happy in marriage. He didn't change. Why should these dinners be awkward? Because he is "not family" anymore? The truth is, he is still family, b/c he is the father to your niece/nephew and your parents grandchildren.
DH had an uncle who was married 2x. The first wife was still invited to all family events, b/c her kids (by the time I met dh, grown and 40+) were invited. Yes, both dh's uncle and his first and second wife were there. And his kids. AND their divorce happened in the 70's, when stuff like that was a scandal!
Now, if down the road your BIL starts dating, I can see saying "I really don't want to explain your new girlfriend to my kids," but for now, he is still "Uncle George." It will probably make things MUCH EASIER for his kids if you accept him as a family member. Also think of the lesson you are teaching your own kids - once someone gets a divorce, is it ok to treat him as a non-person? as an outsider? To me that makes no sense unless they behaved badly.
Thanks everyone. I don't want to start drama. I just feel that now the he has moved out and they are going to go ahead with the paper work, he shouldn't be invited. The reason why we are uncomfortable is knowing how much my sister was so angry with him for two years. Two years of her complaining about him. She should have kept some of the things to herself but she felt that she could vent to me and my other sister. We gave her the best advice we could, get counseling. They did and it didn't help.
I'm sure he won't come to everything forever but when does that start? I guess I'll see what she says to me about not inviting him to the party.
This has been going on for 2 years. Has it been 2 years of awkward dinners? If not, why now? Yes, I realize they are moving to divorce, but if you've tolerated him and been pleasant w/ him at these dinners for 2 years, why is it suddenly different?
Also, to be clear, I think you need to talk to her about the big picture of their relationship, not just about your party. Not in a confrontational, "we aren't comfortable" way, but in a gentle "where are you and BIL at w/ your relationship as far as the kids go?" and through this, ask "do you plan on him still attending our Sunday dinners?", etc.
My parents divorced when I was 6. They were always very clear w/ me- they, as two adults, weren't able to get along. However, they both still loved me and it was in no way my fault. And in front of me/ in relation to me, I never saw them be anything but friendly and cordial to one another.
For all the anger, frustration, etc that your sister dealt with and shared with you, in talking this through w/ your BIL, the two of them may very strongly be on the same page of "we're a united front when it comes to the kids" and SHE may want him to come to the dinners just so that her kids still see him as being a part of the family.
I think you and your family need to know if this is the case or not. And if it is, I really think you all need to support her in this as best you can.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
No I'm not blaming the break-up of their marriage on him. She is the one that wanted it.
You are right, the last two years haven't been that uncomfortable, toward the end was because they weren't even talking to each other and everyone knew it, but my BIL didn't think we could tell anything was wrong.
I did call my sister and said that I was sending out the invitations for the party with just her name and kids' names on it and wondering what she thought. Maybe it wasn't the right way to say it but she's pissed now. I'm in tears for being the bad one. She said that I can do whatever and its my choice. But she wants to know why he can't come. I did say because I'm uncomfortable.
She emailed my other sister and I wondering what she should do. Her email: Hi, I need to know what to do about BIL. If he is making everyone uncomfortable then I guess I should tell him not to come to Sunday dinners and just stay home with the girls. If he is not going to be invited to family functions then I need to tell him that, too. And, Sara, he will be here when you pick up your kids today so try to act nice and I will tell him about all this later this week. Just tell me what you want me to do."
I'm a little taken a back by this but expected it. I understand that she's mad. But I wonder why she won't bring her kids because he isn't going to come. I haven't asked her about that yet. And yes, she watches my kids 3 times a week for free. I am prepared if she doesn't take them anymore and I need to find alternate daycare.
So I responded with "Yes I got the email. I'm sorry if I offended you. I don't care if he comes, I guess I'm a little confused. I thought maybe now that he moved out, you wouldn't want him there. Obviously I'm going to be nice to him whenever I see him. I think we need to sit and talk about this?"
Her response to that is "I don't want to sit down and talk about it. I will let him know. I'm just trying to do the best for my kids."
Once again, I'm confusing about doing the best for her kids. Does me not inviting him effect them that much? I did tell her to bring him. I just left if for now. Now I have to see her in an hour. A little scared.
From your update it seems as if your sister is a huge drama queen.
I'm wondering if SHE is the reason these family events are awkward? How does your sister act during the family dinners / parties? Does she hang with BIL pretending everything is cool between them? Or is she still moody and untalkative around him? Does she try to pawn him off onto other people? Can he handle himself socially?
And I have a feeling this is more about her than "what is best for the kids." Obviously, you don't want their kids to think of him as an outsider or unwelcome, but at the same time, they will only think of BILs not attending your childs b'day party as odd if your sis or BIL MAKE a big deal about it.
Trust me, my H loves my sisters kids, but if we divorced, he would not be unhappy to miss a kiddie birthday party! He would prefer to spend the day watching football or basketball by himself.
Since they are divorcing, you don't have to "go through" your sister to speak to your BIL. Talk to him about how the parties are awkward. You don't have to tell him he is unwelcome b/c "he's not family anymore,' but you can tell him that you still feel tension between him and your sister, and it puts a damper on the party (after all, your childs birthday party should be about your child, not about BIL/SIL pretending they are a happy couple, or about their anger over the latest mediation issue). Don't let your sister spin this as a "my family hates you and wants you to go away."
At the same time, if family gatherings are only awkward b/c your sister and brother are - gasp! - divorcing and you're not ok with that, you need to be more open-minded.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Here's what I'd do:
For the time being, when your sister and her STBX are still figuring all this out, let your sister know about family plans, and tell her that it's up to her whether or not to pass along the plans to her STBX. Let her make the call about his attendance.
It may take them a while to work through this to a point that's more comfortable for everyone.
Could it be that he gets visitation on weekends when your family has these get togethers and that he's doing your family a major favor in sharing his time with his kids with you?
my x is invited to most family functions...xmas...easter...my kids bds...graduations...etc..
I encouraged my family to invite him and keep him part of the family. My kids are so much better off for it. we have been divorced for 10 years and he has always been part of my extended family.
It is obvious to me that your sister has no problem with it and WANTS him invited, so I really dont see why it is such an issue for you. letting the kids see that he is still part of the family is important, they are going through enough, is this really such a big problem for you? I just dont get it.
Wow. Just wow. Your sister totally wants to call the plays, huh!
I don't want to assume that I get all of the dynamics ... but for her to jump all over you is just ridiculous. Like YOU did something wrong!
I think you need to call her bluff. Just say "Sorry, I guess it's too soon to assume that BIL is/isn't invted to family events. OF COURSE he's invited if you want him there. I just thought that was your expectation since he moved out Thursday. I will tell him (personally) that he is wanted and invited. No worries. Just let me know if and when that would ever change for future events."
I'm sorry - I think your sister copping an attitude is a HUGE offense. You are following her signals and leads and now she plays the victim?? NO WAY.
I'm in the exact same boat...my sister left her husband and she continues to bring him to stuff. Part of me thinks its weird that they are seperated but not...but I do like him coming to our family stuff. If your sister wants him there, the kids still like him, why not continue to treat him as family.
I expect that his involvement will begin to lessen over time...by rip it out from under him???
I'm a little taken a back by this but expected it. I understand that she's mad. But I wonder why she won't bring her kids because he isn't going to come. I
Like several other peole mentioned, the kids are probably getting limited time w/ their dad. If I left the Mr. tomorrow and I had to choose weekend to weekend whether she got time w/ her father or time w/ her extended family members, her dad would trump that, every time. And he should.
You're giving her the choice of her kids getting a few hours w/ dad AND family or choosing between kid time w/ dad or kid time w/ family--the 'right' choice is probably dadtime.
Which doesn't mean it doesn't sound like this isn't a pITA all around--she's trying to dictate and send guilt trips and everything else. But this is the sort of thing to be discussed in, well, a discussion. NOt a vauge e-mail/phonecall/whatever.
About a year or so ago my husband and I split up. He moved out and I was for sure I wanted a divorce. There was no abuse, cheating, etc... we just weren't getting along. My parents love dh and told dh that he was still a part of the family until I said I didn't want him around. He and I still hung out, went to marriage counseling, tried to figure things out basically. We started getting more touchy feely, etc... I started to figure out what was wrong with me during marriage and individual counseling (I married young, I was feeling smothered, etc...). We worked it out and I am so in love today you wouldn't believe it. I had the paper work printed out, he had moved out, the whole shebang. Sometimes we think we know something in life then we realize we have no idea what we're doing, ya know?
Point is, him still being around my family meant so much to me. It made me see him in a different light, it made me very happy. It was those little things I think back on that make me almost cry when I think about it because it meant so much to me that he was still willing to be around my family. It was perfectly within my family's rights to say they were uncomfortable and didn't want him there, but they didn't do that. It really meant the world to me, especially during a difficult time.
Your sister kinda sounds dramatic, but she also sounds like someone who is going through a lot. Don't rush her to make a cut with him that she's not ready to do yet, she can handle herself.