August 2006 Weddings
2Vermont
member
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I'm frustrated
After visiting with my family and speaking (debating?) with my liberal democrat, Obama supporter brother, I really question whether Obama supporters are willing to see anything negative about Obama. Although I will question McCain and Palin, I just don't see the same skepticism from the other side.
I'm hoping there will be Obama supporters here who can show me otherwise. Is there anything about Obama or his campaign that you take issue with? I just don't see enough of this.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Re: I'm frustrated
Honestly this is an issue with supporters from both sides. Its what happens in a two sided, heated contest.
I don't think i really count as an Obama supporter since I don'tlike either side...I just wanted to point that out. I take issue with anyone who agrees 100% with any candidate. It just means, to me, that they haven't researched it enough or don't think for themselves.
So you speak to one Obama supporter and you extrapolate that we are all alike?
Does this now mean I should assume that all McCain supporters are narrow minded?
Edit:
- I don't support Obama's position on Pakistan
- I don't support Obama's position on execution of child rapists
- I don't support Obama's position on gay marriage.
- I think Obama's health care plan does not go far enough
- I think Obama's ex-pastor was flipping nuts
Obama isn't liberal enough on social issues for me. I'm ok with him fiscally as I feel he's more of a fiscal centrist than most people realize.
I disagree with his position on late-term abortion, gay marriage, the border fence, the patriot act, and probably a lot more issues that aren't coming to mind immediately.
I think he promises too much...I don't actually think he's going to be able to work in a bipartisan manner on most issues, as he says he can. It's something all politicians promise and almost none can deliver on. And I find him especially to fit this mold...a lot of his schtick just bugs me. I think he's built expectations up to an unreasonable level and I don't think he can deliver. There's a reason why I didn't support him in the primaries.
I think his health care plan needs work. It's got problems. I think his overall vision for health insurance is better than McCain's by a mile though, so I'll deal.
I hate that he supports the death penalty and I hate his position on gay marriage, but on those issues he is closer to me than McCain is.
I don't think he should be cutting anyone's taxes. We are in too deep.
And I'm not really a fan of Joe Biden. I think he should have chosen someone outside of Washington. Richardson if he was concerned about foreign policy, and Sebelius if he wanted to really shake things up and prove he was about change. Biden was too safe, too tired, and has too much baggage. He doesn't excite me.
How's that? Enough flaws for you?
I really don't like that he smokes.
And I wish her were against the death penalty, and i wish he were pro-gay marriage.
Actually, I've been feeling this way on these boards for awhile. I just don't see enough criticism of Obama...and maybe that's because the criticism is spread out within different threads and I miss a lot of it.
See, I didn't realize that you (or anyone on this board) felt this way. I respect this thinking because I don't have a lot of respect for or trust in any politician. However, I get the impression that Obama is somehow different from all other politicians.
I really like Obama; I think he's full of character and heart, and really means or hopes what he says. ?WIll he be able to do it all? ?Only time will tell. ?But I don't think he just "wants to win." ?
I agree with LMW, BM & shadow. ?He's not liberal enough on social issues, and actually the execution of child rapists really bugs me. ?However, while I'm 100% socially liberal, I don't really vote solely on those issues anymore. ?I think the biggies are healthcare, the economy, etc. ?I'm with him on those.
I think Obama's primary campaign was about him being different and above the fray. I just couldn't buy into it. I know there's a few others that were frustrated with this aspect of Obama's primary (BlackMamba comes to mind).
I think he's toned it down a bit in the general so that's probably why you are seeing fewer people criticize him for this.
I also think what he's done for generating interest in politics among people who have never cared before is extraordinary. I think he's harnassed the power of the internet and brought about a fantastic fundraising model. The number of new donors and new voter registrations is amazing. So, I do think he deserves tremendous credit for that. And it's hard to criticize his unreasonable promises because they do go hand in hand with this amazing passion....so that's also probably why a lot of people don't express frustration with him promising the moon.
I just worry about a huge disappointment in a year's time if little has gotten accomplished. I worry the backlash will be huge.
There are several issues I wish he had different policies on:
1. I wish he was more accepting of nuclear power - I think done right it can be an environmentally sound, inexpensive source or energy.
2. I wish he were pro-gay marriage
3. I'm not wild about expanding faith based initiatives. I think all religion and government should be completely distinct from one another
4. I like the idea of his health care plan, but I do worry that it would prompt employers to drop insurance plans in light of the availability of a government plan.
The thing is, even though I disagree with Obama on points 2-4, McCain's poisitions are even worse on these points. While McCain is pro-nuclear, he is not pro-wind/solar/etc enough to make his energy policy appealing to me.
So there is not one position that I agree with McCain MORE than I do Obama... but I don't heart ALL of Obama's positions.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
There has been an awful lot of negativity for the McCain campaign, and while I think much of it is deserved, it tends to leave ignore any criticism of Obama's campaign. There are several things I don't fully agree with him on several things, most of which have already been mentioned. I don't love his tax plan, I don't agree with him on the gay marriage issue, or the death penalty. I wish his energy plan were more aggressive and substantial. I've come to terms with where we disagree, so unless it is brought up I generally don't say a thing about them.
I really think if Palin were not in the picture this would be a much fairer fight. She is a huge distraction, and has allowed Obama to slip under the radar on policy, at least here.
He's not socially liberal enough, but you don't hear liberals here complaining about it because he's the best option for us to win. We understand we need to compromise on some things to safeguard others.
I also agree that he won't be able to deliver on everything he's promised, but I think it's better to have the goal and maybe get lucky than to not even bother making an attempt. Maybe Obama won't be able to, say, cut greenhouse emmissions by 80%, but it beats McCain's promise that he won't even attempt it. Give me your best case scenario. I want to see the ambition.
I don't have space or time to enumerate all of the issues I have with him.
I disagree with him on several elements of foreign policy, on economics, on trade, on social issues, on energy etc. But I disagree with McCain/Palin even more...
I also have far greater faith in the advisors of the Obama Biden team, and believe that they'd assemble a better cabinet.
Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't actually know the full array of policy stances and beliefs of their candidate. Sorry, but that's what I believe.
Are you breast feeding at the computer? If you are, I suggest you make a bewbie ticker.
I do think he's a different type of politican in that he's inspiring, and I really think he's a calm deliberative intellectual person. ?That's not a common thing in politics. ?Sure, he promises more than he can deliver, but that's something every politician does.
Do I disagree with certain policies? ?Absolutely. ?They're pretty much the ones everyone else has mentioned, like faith based funding, gay marriage, the whole line about abortion being between woman, doctor, pastor and family. ?But, on the things with which I disagree, he's far closer to me than McCain, so it's really not worth complaining about.
I just think that people who support Obama disagree on policy points that aren't worth really arguing about or getting upset about b/c McCain is so much worse an option. ?And Obama hasn't made some of the galling moves that McCain has such as "women's health," Palin, and all the negative campaiging. ?Our criticisms are policy, not personal, so at this point in the election cycle, we've come to a peace about our differences for the most part b/c he's not really made many new policy statements. ?McCain OTOH keeps doing things that are new that piss people off, so we're vocal about it.?
Obama was my guy from the beginning, I saw his speech at the DNC in 2004 and have been interested in him since then. That said, some things I'm not 100% with him with, such as Immigration, but as PPs have stated, it's a better representation than McCain's ideas.
As far as fiscal/tax issues, I firmly believe that the best possible way to fix our economy is to get our butts out of Iraq ASAP, stop spending billions of dollars there and invest it into our own economy and infrastructure.
I hate his stance on gay marriage.
I think his tax plan could be better, but it's still better than McCain's.
I don't like that he's pro-death penalty (but so is McCain).
I also think his campaign has made some mistakes. I can't think of specific examples right now, but I don't think he's been perfect.
Hahaha yes! I am trying to find the naked couple "we are breastfeeding" ticker.
I tried to tell DH about that once, and he looked at me with a look of half bewilderment, half repulsion. ?
I'm impressed! I never mastered BFing while typing. I managed to learn to type with one hand but it was slow-going and not fun.
I think as we get closer to the election, everyone's getting a little frustrated, 2Vermont.
I've had conversations with some of my more conservative friends and they too, are completely blind to faults within their party's campaign or candidates. (One extreme example: she swore she had absolutely NO problem with the RNC spending 150K on Palin's clothing. Said it was necessary. It just made me guffaw--c'mon, let's agree they could've gotten her some new, nice clothes without plunking down triple and quadruple some people's salaries....It's a trivial matter, but that's when I realized I wasn't going to get debate from her, just talking points. 'Cause even many conservatives have at least been willing to say THAT was a bonehead move...)
But as the others have previously mentioned--Obama has his faults. I'm not crazy about the gay marriage stand; and while I think it sounds great that he wants to provide a tax cut, I seriously questions how he's going to do it when we're fighting two wars and just spent $700B on our financial system. (I question McCain's tax cuts too, but that's a different story
There are a lot more of his positions that I understand, but that make me squirm a little.
And even though earlier this year I had the opportunity to go hear him speak--and was THRILLED about it!--I left there not knowing anything new about him or his policies. I get rallies are just that--rallies, but anyone who'd been an Obama supporter for a while would have been disappointed. He just didn't SAY much.
I also fear greatly that if he does win, and that is still a very big IF if you ask me, I don't think he'll get re-elected. I don't think he'll be able to do the kind of work that needs to be done in four years and for the most part, the American people are impatient.
The fact that he's spoken so much and promised so much is a big reason for this--I think he's kind of setting himself up to disappoint people. He just can't do everything.
Many of US realize that; I don't think the average person does.
He's not without fault. But still, for the first time, I can honestly say he inspires me. He's the first politician that has ever done that. That's why I'm excited for the first time in my life I'll actually vote FOR someone, as opposed to against someone else.
I think that feeling of inspiration runs to many of his supporters--and that may be why you don't hear much criticism. When someone inspires you, you don't exactly want to start tearing them down in your own mind, you know?
I think you make a good point here.
That makes sense.
I think that speaking like this is pretty typical of politicians, but I understand your frustration.
LOL...this is absurd.
I am happy for you. The last time I felt like this was when I supported Clinton in 1992. I would like to feel this way again about a candidate, but I just don't see it happening. I think I'd be the first to question my feelings if I ever did.
*hopes this posts since the Nest ate my last attempt*
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
see, I still think Wilsonian Foreign policy, theoretically, is the right way to go. I just don't think its ever been implemented correctly.