What causes this disconnect? (work vent)

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

Me: "We have a quiz coming up next week. I'd like you to make a list of all the terms and concepts we've covered in this unit. Basicly, I'd like you to make your own study guide."

Student 1: "I don't understand"

Me: "Why don't you repeat the instructions and maybe I can clarify"

Student 1: "I'm supposed to make a list of everything I don't understand"

?????

Student 2 (looking in textbook): "What page can I find the list on so I can copy it?"

????

hersheykiss · February 2011

Students want an easy answer for everything these days. They don't want to work for their grades unfortunately.

hannikan · February 2011

I'm thinking part of it is they do not know what terms and concepts mean. Maybe you can define those for them. Do you have a study guide from a previous unit to show them? Are the terms and topics you've covered in this unit listed in bold in a chapter in the textbook? I would direct them there if they are. If not, maybe they were on hand-outs or should have been highlighted or underlined in their notes so you could direct them to those? GL!

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

hersheykiss:
Students want an easy answer for everything these days. They don't want to work for their grades unfortunately.

That's true. And, with these classes, I have a lot of students who don't know how to listen (or choose not to)

This unit has been frustrating too because I realize they have no geography knowledge. They can't find Hawaii on a world map. I show them a map of the Bay area and they ask if it's California.

hannikan · February 2011

Mrs.BoomBoom:
This unit has been frustrating too because I realize they have no geography knowledge. They can't find Hawaii on a world map. I show them a map of the Bay area and they ask if it's California.

This is why the 9th grade Geography class should be a requirement, not an elective. We try to do as much geography as we can in history classes but they forget it quickly without a class devoted to it. Plus if they don't take Geography, they have no social studies class as freshmen.

cromero49 · February 2011

I'm not a teacher, but yikes! What grade do you teach?

The only encouraging thing I can pull out of that is that they actually raised their hand to ask a question.

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

hannikan:
Mrs.BoomBoom:
This unit has been frustrating too because I realize they have no geography knowledge. They can't find Hawaii on a world map. I show them a map of the Bay area and they ask if it's California.
This is why the 9th grade Geography class should be a requirement, not an elective. We try to do as much geography as we can in history classes but they forget it quickly without a class devoted to it. Plus if they don't take Geography, they have no social studies class as freshmen.

Our school offers no geography. (Elective or not) and our Freshmen have no social studies.

I said terms and concepts and then said "all the words and things we studied" I'm just really not good at going that basic and teaching them what a vocabulary word is and what they need to study.

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

cromero49:
I'm not a teacher, but yikes! What grade do you teach?

The only encouraging thing I can pull out of that is that they actually raised their hand to ask a question.

These are mostly 9th graders.

OoSparkly · February 2011

Wow. This makes me scared for when future generations begin filling the workforce and government...

hannikan · February 2011

Mrs.BoomBoom:
I said terms and concepts and then said "all the words and things we studied" I'm just really not good at going that basic and teaching them what a vocabulary word is and what they need to study.

Yeah, the problem is (as hard is it is to believe) they may never have had it defined before. Esp 9th graders may not have a good idea of what it means. It's also true that students are used to being babied and not required to be self-directed. It breeds bad habits.

cromero49 · February 2011

Another wow. How do you make it to 9th grade and not know what terms and concepts are?! How do you not know how to find Hawaii on a map by 9th grade?! I weep for the future. I can understand not knowing where other countries are, but Hawaii?! Indifferent

hannikan · February 2011

cromero49:
Another wow. How do you make it to 9th grade and not know what terms and concepts are?! How do you not know how to find Hawaii on a map by 9th grade?! I weep for the future. I can understand not knowing where other countries are, but Hawaii?!

Because teachers often tell them exactly how to do every little part of an assignment multiple times instead of teaching them how to it figure out on their own. I have been working with 9-12th graders on timed essays preparing for the SAT for the last couple of weeks and they have so much trouble understanding what the directions are asking of them. When they take the SAT they will not be able to ask what the directions mean so we are trying to teach them how to deconstruct instructions. Many students do not listen when teachers go over instructions with the whole class because they figure they can just ask the teacher to explain it to them individually. They become very dependent on that safety net and will rely on it even as 12th graders.

hannikan · February 2011

As for why students don't know where Hawaii is, that is because we rarely show Hawaii and like Alaska it often isn't even displayed in the right place. It doesn't surprise me that many don't know where it is but I am always shocked to have students who cannot label California.

cromero49 · February 2011

All of this hand holding is going to be seriously detrimental in so many aspects of life. I'm in higher ed so this will trickle up to us as well. This type of student is a nightmare. Sad

hannikan · February 2011

cromero49:
All of this hand holding is going to be seriously detrimental in so many aspects of life. I'm in higher ed so this will trickle up to us as well. This type of student is a nightmare.

Yup, that's why some of us are trying to nip it in the bud/prepare them for college and careers. It's quite pervasive and it's been going on for years really.

sm23 · February 2011

That's not a disconnect. That's laziness. Sorry you have to deal with it :-/

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

I think a lot of this is also an unintended consequence of the standards based testing based curriculum. Elementary school used to spend a lot of time teaching these life skills, but they're not in the standards, so, given the option of teaching language arts (which is tested) and study skills (which isn't really tested) what do you teach? We're also being told that every student should be able to go to college. That means they need to be in highly academic classes. There's no longer 'consumer math' or 'basic English' All our students are in Honors English and Algebra.

We're being asked to specifically teach 'testing terms' to our students. 9th grade words: analyze, compare, contrast, describe, discuss, evaluate, explain, illustrate, justify, summarize. ::Sigh:: I can't believe students don't know these words by 9th grade!

I had a meeting with a parent last week. He argued that his child is an 'A' student but, in the next sentence, said that she doesn't know how to take notes except to copy what's on the board (Oh, and that means just the words, not the figures and not the examples I'm giving verbally) and she doesn't know how to determine what's important and what's not as important. I'm sorry dad, that's not an 'A' student.

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

cromero49:
All of this hand holding is going to be seriously detrimental in so many aspects of life. I'm in higher ed so this will trickle up to us as well. This type of student is a nightmare.

AMEN

hannikan · February 2011

Mrs.BoomBoom:
I think a lot of this is also an unintended consequence of the standards based testing based curriculum. Elementary school used to spend a lot of time teaching these life skills, but they're not in the standards, so, given the option of teaching language arts (which is tested) and study skills (which isn't really tested) what do you teach? We're also being told that every student should be able to go to college. That means they need to be in highly academic classes. There's no longer 'consumer math' or 'basic English' All our students are in Honors English and Algebra.
We're being asked to specifically teach 'testing terms' to our students. 9th grade words: analyze, compare, contrast, describe, discuss, evaluate, explain, illustrate, justify, summarize. ::Sigh:: I can't believe students don't know these words by 9th grade!
I had a meeting with a parent last week. He argued that his child is an 'A' student but, in the next sentence, said that she doesn't know how to take notes except to copy what's on the board (Oh, and that means just the words, not the figures and not the examples I'm giving verbally) and she doesn't know how to determine what's important and what's not as important. I'm sorry dad, that's not an 'A' student.

It's very true and I would also argue that generally speaking, upper elementary and middle school are not rigorous enough to prepare them for high school. They do not teach writing skills enough, they do not require them to read outside of class. Then we're expected to prepare them for college in 4 years of high school. What the parent you talked to should have said is she's always gotten A's, not that she is an A student for your class or for the classes she's taking now. A lot of parents do not understand that if their student is going to be competitive for college they have to learn skills for that in high school. A lot of times they think they will learn that later. Really, when is this later? Note-taking is something students do not learn. In many cases they don't take the notes you're talking about until they're thrown into it in college. It is something they should learn to do in middle school. The only students I've had who understand how to effectively take notes are AVID students because we spend time teaching them how to take notes and study with them and they are graded on them.

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

hannikan:
Note-taking is something students do not learn. In many cases they don't take the notes you're talking about until they're thrown into it in college. It is something they should learn to do in middle school. The only students I've had who understand how to effectively take notes are AVID students because we spend time teaching them how to take notes and study with them and they are graded on them.

Yeah, I remember doing this in 4th/5th grade. Oh, and summarize? Outline the chapter? Those used to be easy go-to assignments but no more. Students have NO idea what it means to outline the chapter.

Oh, and remember, I teach in a 9 API school, so, it's in the top 90% of schools in the state. Yeah, I'm scared about the future workforce.

hannikan · February 2011

Mrs.BoomBoom:
hannikan:
Note-taking is something students do not learn. In many cases they don't take the notes you're talking about until they're thrown into it in college. It is something they should learn to do in middle school. The only students I've had who understand how to effectively take notes are AVID students because we spend time teaching them how to take notes and study with them and they are graded on them.
Yeah, I remember doing this in 4th/5th grade. Oh, and summarize? Outline the chapter? Those used to be easy go-to assignments but no more. Students have NO idea what it means to outline the chapter.
Oh, and remember, I teach in a 9 API school, so, it's in the top 90% of schools in the state. Yeah, I'm scared about the future workforce.

Yep, I required a lot of summarizing in my social studies classes. Their warm up was a short summary of the concepts from the previous day and the closure was a summary of the concepts of that day. They hated it but that is how they retain info from one day to the next. The students prepping for the SAT essays have to do an outline before they start their essay and they have shown that they were never taught how to outline. So we have to teach them that, too. It's like pulling teeth but it improves their understanding of the topic, the arguments from the accompanying text, and their own writing so much. I am at a high performing school, too, although the kids I'm working with have been designated as needing extra help.

winterorchids · February 2011

I laughed at that a bit! Sorry! It's laziness and general half-assery (like my word?). They are partially listening, only slightly caring, and expecting everything to be given to them. I know because I was much the same way back then.

I will confess I really hated school, especially middle school and early high school. Something about it made me simply not want to learn. Luckily, it faded away during HS and before college.

The reason I laugh is because I swear I had a similar exchange with my mother about a hundred times. I'd have homework. I'd ask her the answer to a question. She'd tell me to look in my book. I'd say I can't find it. She'd ask if I read it. I'd lie and say yes, figuring glacing at each page for a second to scout out the answer was equivalent. She'd help me look and sure enough the answer would be in there... with the very same words arranged in the form of a sentence instead of a question. Over time she wised up of course, but the laziness and half-assery continued. I really just didn't want to, didn't care, and hoped I could just get by another day/assignment/test. I wanted everything spelled out for me, given to me, etc. Even during open-book tests I remember not doing that great because I didn't even know or read enough to find the answers. There's really no excuse for that.

So I'm sorry you are going through it, but just know it isn't you. It's the age group, the mentality, the mixed up priorities, but not you. In college I learned to love learning and I'm sorry you won't get to see many of these slack-offs change for the better. But know that many of them will. And many are truly sorry they frustrated the crap out of awesome teachers like you.

hannikan · February 2011

Some of them don't care and some of them hide behind the I don't care exterior because they are embarrassed that it doesn't come easily to them.

Mrs.BoomBoom · February 2011

winterorchids:
I laughed at that a bit! Sorry! It's laziness and general half-assery (like my word?). They are partially listening, only slightly caring, and expecting everything to be given to them. I know because I was much the same way back then.

I will confess I really hated school, especially middle school and early high school. Something about it made me simply not want to learn. Luckily, it faded away during HS and before college.

The reason I laugh is because I swear I had a similar exchange with my mother about a hundred times. I'd have homework. I'd ask her the answer to a question. She'd tell me to look in my book. I'd say I can't find it. She'd ask if I read it. I'd lie and say yes, figuring glacing at each page for a second to scout out the answer was equivalent. She'd help me look and sure enough the answer would be in there... with the very same words arranged in the form of a sentence instead of a question. Over time she wised up of course, but the laziness and half-assery continued. I really just didn't want to, didn't care, and hoped I could just get by another day/assignment/test. I wanted everything spelled out for me, given to me, etc. Even during open-book tests I remember not doing that great because I didn't even know or read enough to find the answers. There's really no excuse for that.

So I'm sorry you are going through it, but just know it isn't you. It's the age group, the mentality, the mixed up priorities, but not you. In college I learned to love learning and I'm sorry you won't get to see many of these slack-offs change for the better. But know that many of them will. And many are truly sorry they frustrated the crap out of awesome teachers like you.

Thank you for that!

What causes this disconnect? (work vent)

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