In honor of Lady GaGa

Dannyand Allison · February 2011

Born this way or choice?[Poll]

BoyMom21 · February 2011

Born that way. One of my close guy friends said that even as a young child he knew he liked men and not women. How do you argue with that? And like he told me one time--if I could be straight, why in the world wouldn't I choose to be? My life would be so much easier. I don't choose because it was never a choice.

BobKat22 · February 2011

I voted born that way. I know many gay people from childhood that have always been that way. No big change, that's just they way they are. I don't see how anyone could argue that they weren't born that way.

I do think some people choose to be gay. I only say that because my SIL admits to choosing to be gay. She has never claimed to have been born gay. She was straight through out high school, got married, and had kids. Once her marriage got rocky she found someone else. It just happened to be a girl. She has no interest in men anymore, and she doesn't consider herself bi-sexual.

fuzzylogic · February 2011

Born that way.

amidavey06 · February 2011

Born that way. DH's uncle is gay. Looking back on pictures of him growing up you could tell he had always been gay. There was one picture of his 5th birthday party and he asked his mom to bake him a wedding cake with flowers all over it. FIL said he would also dance around the house. He did have relationships with women when he was in HS and college but soon after his father died he finally came out. I think at a young age he knew but could act on it because he knew how his father would react.

stripesandspots · February 2011

Definitely born that way.

I guess the better question is - Heterosexual - born that way or choice? Why isn't this question ever asked?

amidavey06 · February 2011

stripesandspots:
Definitely born that way.

I guess the better question is - Heterosexual - born that way or choice? Why isn't this question ever asked?

I'm guessing it's never questioned is because it is the norm and people who do not seem normal are always questioned. Also homosexuals are in the minority compared to heterosexuals. Why would the majority question why they are the way they are? YKWIM?

Temp856430000003146 · February 2011

I don't think it's as simple as either of those choices.

ShansBride · February 2011

I think you are born that way. I have a gay friend who says no ones gets to choose who to love. Like have you ever met a guy who just seemed fabulous and perfect, but there was no emotional connection? No sparks? He said that is how he felt with women. He would love to be "normal" and fall in love with a woman, but he just can't.

OUKap · February 2011

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning. I voted born that way.

My really good friend in college was gay but it wasn't widely known. He wasn't one that you could really tell with - maybe. A lot of gay and lesbians I know really struggle with it, so I don't don't how it could be a choice for them, as others have pointed out.

What about gay animals?

fuzzylogic · February 2011

OUKap:
I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning. I voted born that way.
My really good friend in college was gay but it wasn't widely known. He wasn't one that you could really tell with - maybe. A lot of gay and lesbians I know really struggle with it, so I don't don't how it could be a choice for them, as others have pointed out.
What about gay animals?

This thought occurred to me this afternoon. Haven't scientists noted animals engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild?

gingerfeathers · February 2011

Also agree: Born that way.

And I too would like to hear someone who said choice.. I'm not interested in flaming or anything. I just am curious about your reasoning.

bluekid · February 2011

fuzzylogic:
OUKap:
I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning. I voted born that way.
My really good friend in college was gay but it wasn't widely known. He wasn't one that you could really tell with - maybe. A lot of gay and lesbians I know really struggle with it, so I don't don't how it could be a choice for them, as others have pointed out.
What about gay animals?
This thought occurred to me this afternoon. Haven't scientists noted animals engaging in homosexual behavior in the wild?

They have indeed! And it's not as uncommon as one might think, either.

kayleeb · February 2011

OUKap:

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning.

Because there are so many people on this board that will bash you and not stop bothering you if you chose "Choice". Even though it's a personal opinion. People are waiting for someone to say they chose "Choice" so they can argue with them and try to change their opinion. I think that's why nobody else really commented on the Chick-fil-a post.

I agree with Tavia, I don't think it's as easy as those choices.

OSUWifey09 · February 2011

I agree with Tavia and kayleeb, too - I think it's not as cut and dry as "born this way" or "choice". I actually voted choice but feel like it could be a combination of both. I think people can be born to love the same sex, but I think some also choose it. It's hard for me to put into words just what I mean - not because I'm afraid I'll offend anyone, but because it's hard to put words to a situation I've never been in before. It's easy for me to say, "Oh, I think you choose to be that way," but I've never had to ask myself if I love a man or love a woman. KWIM?

stripesandspots · February 2011

Also and this is not the point - the song is about more than homosexuality - it is about being yourself regardless of who or what you are. That is something that I love about Lady Gaga - she truly does not discriminate. Even at her concert she said something about how we shouldn't hate on the Westboro crazies - that they are just believing what they believe in and that's not anyone's fault - that we should have love for everyone regardless of what they believe.

critti710 · February 2011

kayleeb:
OUKap:

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning.
Because there are so many people on this board that will bash you and not stop bothering you if you chose "Choice". Even though it's a personal opinion. People are waiting for someone to say they chose "Choice" so they can argue with them and try to change their opinion. I think that's why nobody else really commented on the Chick-fil-a post.
I agree with Tavia, I don't think it's as easy as those choices.

It's interesting to me that you say this, because I felt that *my* viewpoint was the one being attacked in that thread and that I was defending it. Obviously, none of us are going to change each other's minds on these issues. I don't think that means they're not worth discussing.

fuzzylogic · February 2011

critti710:
It's interesting to me that you say this, because I felt that *my* viewpoint was the one being attacked in that thread and that I was defending it. Obviously, none of us are going to change each other's minds on these issues. I don't think that means they're not worth discussing.

I agree. I feel it's important to discuss issues such as these, and the Chick Fil-A issue. If all we ever discussed was the weather and where to buy cute shoes I fear we would become a very sad, uneducated, uninspired society.

kayleeb · February 2011

critti710:
kayleeb:
OUKap:

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning.

Because there are so many people on this board that will bash you and not stop bothering you if you chose "Choice". Even though it's a personal opinion. People are waiting for someone to say they chose "Choice" so they can argue with them and try to change their opinion. I think that's why nobody else really commented on the Chick-fil-a post.

I agree with Tavia, I don't think it's as easy as those choices.

It's interesting to me that you say this, because I felt that *my* viewpoint was the one being attacked in that thread and that I was defending it. Obviously, none of us are going to change each other's minds on these issues. I don't think that means they're not worth discussing.

I guess what I mean is this: there are a lot more outspoken liberal people on this board (and I don't mean that in a bad way) than there are conservatives. So it's easier for liberals to state their opinion because there aren't very many people on this board that will challenge them or debate them and they have more liberal people to support them and agree with them. If a conservative person states their opinion, there are a lot of liberals that will jump on the chance to debate with them. But it's hard when you feel like you're the only one on your side of the debate when there are multiple other people on the other side. And it's hard not to take debating personally, I think a lot of people feel like debating feels like attacking. (FWIW, I hate using the terms "liberal" and "conservative" because it's not really that black and white, there are a lot of inbetweens. But hopefully you get my point.)

And I mostly felt under attack because of Fuzzy's comment. I really, really hope she wasn't subtly pointing at me when she said it.

critti710 · February 2011

kayleeb:
critti710:
kayleeb:
OUKap:

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning.
Because there are so many people on this board that will bash you and not stop bothering you if you chose "Choice". Even though it's a personal opinion. People are waiting for someone to say they chose "Choice" so they can argue with them and try to change their opinion. I think that's why nobody else really commented on the Chick-fil-a post.
I agree with Tavia, I don't think it's as easy as those choices.
It's interesting to me that you say this, because I felt that *my* viewpoint was the one being attacked in that thread and that I was defending it. Obviously, none of us are going to change each other's minds on these issues. I don't think that means they're not worth discussing.
I guess what I mean is this: there are a lot more outspoken liberal people on this board (and I don't mean that in a bad way) than there are conservatives. So it's easier for liberals to state their opinion because there aren't very many people on this board that will challenge them or debate them and they have more liberal people to support them and agree with them. If a conservative person states their opinion, there are a lot of liberals that will jump on the chance to debate with them. But it's hard when you feel like you're the only one on your side of the debate when there are multiple other people on the other side. And it's hard not to take debating personally, I think a lot of people feel like debating feels like attacking. (FWIW, I hate using the terms "liberal" and "conservative" because it's not really that black and white, there are a lot of inbetweens. But hopefully you get my point.)
And I mostly felt under attack because of Fuzzy's comment. I really, really hope she wasn't subtly pointing at me when she said it.

I think (speaking really only for myself, but I believe this to be true for the other more outspoken liberals on this board) that the reason we tend to be more outspoken isn't because we're trying to attack anyone, but because we enjoy discussing these issues, think it is important to discuss them, and don't see it as anything personal when it comes down to a debate over things we disagree on. I would welcome more thoughts on these issues from the more conservative posters on this board. I am always interested in learning more to help me understand the viewpoints of people who see the world differently than I do.

I appreciate that you do speak your mind on these issues, Kaylee, and especially that we have had several discussions where (in my view, anyway) we have been able to disagree without being disagreeable. I think that discussing these controversial topics also helps those of us who tend to have different views find areas where we might actually agree, like in the post about drug testing.

fuzzylogic · February 2011

kayleeb:
And I mostly felt under attack because of Fuzzy's comment. I really, really hope she wasn't subtly pointing at me when she said it.

I wasn't pointing anything at anyone...are you referencing this thread or the CFA thread? I apologize if it appeared that I was.

OUKap · February 2011

I can't speak for others, but I enjoy discussing different sides of an issue. We all have different perspectives and I have always learned from others who have different opinions. I appreciate those people who do share their opinions. I wouldn't say that I won't change my mind on an issue -- there have many things I have taken a different approach with.

oklagirl · February 2011

I don't see someone equating current discrimination of a minority group to past discrimination of another minority group as an attack.

Yes, the government denying gay people rights now is no different than denying African-American rights in the earlier parts of last century. No attacks. Facts.

oklagirl · February 2011

critti710:
kayleeb:
critti710:
kayleeb:
OUKap:

I am surprised so many people voted choice but no one has explained their reasoning.

Because there are so many people on this board that will bash you and not stop bothering you if you chose "Choice". Even though it's a personal opinion. People are waiting for someone to say they chose "Choice" so they can argue with them and try to change their opinion. I think that's why nobody else really commented on the Chick-fil-a post.

I agree with Tavia, I don't think it's as easy as those choices.

It's interesting to me that you say this, because I felt that *my* viewpoint was the one being attacked in that thread and that I was defending it. Obviously, none of us are going to change each other's minds on these issues. I don't think that means they're not worth discussing.

I guess what I mean is this: there are a lot more outspoken liberal people on this board (and I don't mean that in a bad way) than there are conservatives. So it's easier for liberals to state their opinion because there aren't very many people on this board that will challenge them or debate them and they have more liberal people to support them and agree with them. If a conservative person states their opinion, there are a lot of liberals that will jump on the chance to debate with them. But it's hard when you feel like you're the only one on your side of the debate when there are multiple other people on the other side. And it's hard not to take debating personally, I think a lot of people feel like debating feels like attacking. (FWIW, I hate using the terms "liberal" and "conservative" because it's not really that black and white, there are a lot of inbetweens. But hopefully you get my point.)

And I mostly felt under attack because of Fuzzy's comment. I really, really hope she wasn't subtly pointing at me when she said it.

I think (speaking really only for myself, but I believe this to be true for the other more outspoken liberals on this board) that the reason we tend to be more outspoken isn't because we're trying to attack anyone, but because we enjoy discussing these issues, think it is important to discuss them, and don't see it as anything personal when it comes down to a debate over things we disagree on. I would welcome more thoughts on these issues from the more conservative posters on this board. I am always interested in learning more to help me understand the viewpoints of people who see the world differently than I do.

I appreciate that you do speak your mind on these issues, Kaylee, and especially that we have had several discussions where (in my view, anyway) we have been able to disagree without being disagreeable. I think that discussing these controversial topics also helps those of us who tend to have different views find areas where we might actually agree, like in the post about drug testing.

As always, Critti has managed to be much more articulate and thoughtful than me. I agree with all of this.

I need a pocket Critti/Amanjay to help me discuss politics without attacking. I know when I get heated, I can get ugly. I do apologize if I have.

In honor of Lady GaGa

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