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Need some advice
So DH and I have been arguing about money quite a bit lately. To give you an idea of where we are financially, between to the two of us, we make about $57,000 before taxes, but I drive about an hour both ways to my job, which takes a decent chunk, about $3000, out of my income. Well, we bought a house in July, and after my student loan and his car loan, our debt to income is about 30% (according to the bank, this is really low).
We are basically living paycheck to paycheck. Part of the problem is that DH never lived on his own before we got married, so he never had any bills to pay except for his car payment. He honestly doesn't know how much money it takes to live comfortably and still pay bills. On top of my teaching job, I have a second job coaching a local swim team. DH works a little overtime, but not much. I'd really like him to work more to help out, especially since I've got two jobs right now.
I've tried to talk to him about trying to cut out some expenses, but he doesn't want to hear it. "Well then we won't get to do anything ever," he says, which I think is a little over-dramatic We tend to throw a lot of our money away in food and "beverages," which could be cut down. But he honestly doesn't know how to save money! Our whole down payment for our house came from my savings, which are severally depleted due to that down payment.
How can I talk to him about cutting back and budgeting our money without making him so defensive?
Re: Need some advice
I'm sorry you guys have been fighting so much
Have you tried literally writing out a monthly budget? Like, we start with x dollar from our salaries, and mortgage is this much, phones are this much, etc. Maybe it would be good for him to visualize that this money isn't just magically evaporating. It might also be good to set a goal for a splurge, like a vacation or a new something for the house or whatever else you have in mind (like the "anything" that he's being dramatic about), and work up a savings plan for it. Maybe that would also help him realize that if he worked a little more then a goal would be more easily attainable.
We use mint.com for budgeting - it's very helpful. It tracks all your spending and you can set up budgets. I like this tool because it's so visual with nice graphs and charts. It can be eye opening to see exactly how much you're spending on certain things.
DH and I are taking a financial class now which is very helpful in terms of opening the conversation about finances and getting good advice. A lot of banks offer financial planning services.
Ditto PP on mint.com -- they even have an app for your phone that alerts you when you go over budget on certain things.
For example -- we used to spend like $500/month on groceries, which is crazy in my book for 2 people (+ dining out could be another $200 - $400 easy). This month I started fresh & gave myself a $350 to spend on groceries. I've been printing out coupons & looking for sales, but we are under budget this month at $325. I also allowed myself $150 for dining out & we are right at that threshold this month. I definitely think seeing a constant reminder of how much you are spending really helps me alot.
I make even less than you, but DH's parents are helping with our rent right now. DH has been looking for a job for over a year (just finished law school in May). He is working at the courthouse, but it's for no pay. He's hoping a job will open up & he can start earning income. In the meantime, we have $35k gross to live on. We make a little side income from selling things on amazon + we got $4k back on our tax returns, & DH's parents give us money sometimes. We also have a lot of inheritance (which we do not spend -- it's for a house). We also do not have any debt. I budgeted $1,500 for us each month to spend on all our expenses + $500 to put into savings. It's an extremely hard budget to work with & I know some months it will be impossible, but I am keeping them as goals.
Maybe a solution would be to figure out how much "for fun" money you can allot each month & set up separate checking accounts & automatically put that money in there each month to spend as you please. That way he can still have fun, but not continually keep taking money that you need for other expenses.
As others have mentioned, I think that writing out an actual budget will help both of you. That way you can both see where the money is going, instead of randomly saying "We have to start saving more."
My husband and I use microsoft money management, but you can use something as simple as an excel spreadsheet. Sit down one day and really think about everything you spend money on (The bills that come every month are easy to track, it's the little things like buying lunch, getting coffee etc. that are hard to keep track of). Once you both see where a lot of your money is going towards, you can figure out ways to cut back and budget in extra money for going out.
Thanks for the advice, ladies. We've tried working a budget before, and DH has a hard time sticking to it. I honestly don't know where the money he spends goes sometimes. I tried to get him to keep his receipts so we can balance our checkbook, but he doesn't remember to do this all of the time so online banking is where I look when trying to do this at times (but they don't always have very good labels for some of your spending). I mean, yes, it's our first year at both our jobs, but I honestly feel like we have a high enough gross income, even after taxes, that we shouldn't have to feel like we're living paycheck to paycheck.
Whenever I try to talk about these things with him, he gets very defensive and says things like, "I'm sorry that I don't make more money." I know that he's expressed that he feel likes since he's the man, he should be making enough money to keep us from being stressed about it. I think that mindset is mildly ridiculous, but DH comes from a family where his dad makes a healthy 6 figures a year, and he is used to that lifestyle. Also, DH has worked at his company for 5 years, but this is his first year in full time. He says quite often that he feels like after 5 years, he should be making more; it's the corporate world, though, so you have to work your way up. I understand where he's frustrated with his pay at times, especially when he sees people come into the company fresh and make more than he does. I'm really hoping he gets this promotion he applied for because I think it would calm this mentality of his down.
I've tried to explain to him that we should be very grateful that we have jobs right now; yes, they're not the best paying, especially my teaching salary, but it's much better than a lot of people have right now. That is the way I am trying to think of things, but he really just sees the dollar sign. To me, being happy with my job is a little more important than money. How many people can say that they look forward to going to work everyday? But he keeps encouraging me to look for a teaching position that will make more money, which is honestly just about every other district out there.
Bah... sorry, I feel like I'm ranting. I'm exhausted talking about this subject, and I'm sure my friends and family are sick of hearing about it. I think I'll go check out mint.com. Thanks again for the advice, girls.
Yes, the OT is available on a weekly basis. I've tried bring up the idea of, "Why is it okay for me to work two jobs, but you don't have to work OT?" Then he goes into how exhausting his job is. Well, teaching is pretty exhausting most days, too, but I keep my coaching position because it pays for our free membership to the health club and I get paid good money (honestly in the summer I make more than I do teaching for a month's work) since I've been there 7 years. He'll go through kicks of working OT like 3 days out of the week, and then not working it again for a few weeks. I suggested that since I work 4 extra hours a week at a second job, then maybe he can try to work 4 hours of OT a week, which seems pretty fair to me. He gets really excited when he sees his OT checks, which I would think would be enough to motivate him to do it more often. It usually takes me asking him to work OT in order to make him do it.
I know I'm slow to add, but I wanted to say I'm so sorry for your troubles :-( Money fights are literally the worst, they can bring up so many weird emotions like shame and fear, and resentment...bleh
I also cheer for mint.com, and I think you guys will too. Also, if it's any help, it sounds like your DH is just having a little bit of a life adjustment shock or something, and not like he's "not trainable" :-) I think it'll maybe be tough, but remember, we've all only been married 6mos...and there is a lot of change that comes with it, even if you lived together before, or were together a long time.
I suspect with time, (I know, it sucks) he'll catch on. After all, he's going through what most people did when they left for college, or post college in terms of being self-reliant with money. You get cranky and regress when you realize just how hard it is to be a "grown up."
GL I hope mint helps you guys out!
Your DH came from a well-off family and is used to that lifestyle. My DH and I had to make serious lifestyle changes because we went from being a part of families that made 6 figures. We now make around 35K. Yeah, I sometimes wish I had the extra money to even buy myself a new shirt from Target, but we just can't afford it. People really destroy their attitudes about life when they think "Well, I can't afford X, so life is terrible." My DH and I don't go out to restaurants or movies or go on vacations. We have found alternatives that work for now. We pick something special up from the grocery store and have a steak dinner while watching a movie On Demand. Cheaper than dinner at a restaurant and going to the movie theatre. We go to a lot of free concerts/symphonies/etc at the local college. And DH plays radio giveaways a lot. He won tickets to a concert last weekend with great seats. He's won dozens of giftcards to various restaurants around town and instead of going to dinner, we'll have lunch out, since it's cheaper.
I know my 2-cents is coming super late, but I'd also adivse you to pay bills together. DH and I are both always in the know when it comes to finances. I just payed a little on my credit card and I will tell him. I do the grocery shopping and I make him aware of how much I spent.
I'm exaggerating a little, but when all else fails, I never underestimate the power of a good guilt-trip. DH is quite the cigar aficionado and would spend a good chunk of change on them, even though his collection has grown to over 100 cigars. When he shows me a new box he wants, I tell him "Which do you want more: a new cigar or a house/new car/baby/etc? That money could be better spent in savings." Works every time. It also pumps him up to save even more. If your DH doesn't have any financial/life goal such as the above mentioned house/car/baby/etc, he really doesn't have any incentive to save.
Do the creep.
louieblue: Yeah, I don't really think that he has a goal to save for right now. I would love for us to get a honeymoon, so that is my goal. But sometimes I really don't think he could care either way. His goals are much more career-minded.
It's honestly just so hard to talk money with him because he says he feels like he has to check with me before he spends a cent, which is not what I have told him ever. A lot of what our money seems to go to are things that are "wants" not "needs." I just feel like I'm being the big bad money b**** with the way that he reacts when I talk to him about it. It's honestly a terrible feeling and I don't enjoy that he seems to view me this way when it comes to money, but I don't know how to change it. I try to bring it up calmly and not try to get into an argument, but it somehow always ends in one. All I want to do is come up with a budget, which is what I try to explain, but the minute I mention it, he just blows up or says something about how he can't control that he doesn't make more money.
I'm sorry you're having such a tough time. Conversations like this suck, but it is so important to be on the same page.
I would draw up a budget for the next month and try it as an experiment. Make sure to include all catagories of joint expenses (rent, utilities, etc.) and a separate section for fun money (aka, a set amount of money that each of you gets to spend as you please w/o justifying it) . Try to keep track of every expense that comes out of the joint expenses so you can get a more accurate view of where your money is going. It sucks to track, but it makes you aware of every purchase.
DH and I did this, and it really gave us a sense of how to allocate our money. It sucks at first, but it helped us have a lot of tough conversations and really helped us communicate about money.
Another thing that really helped us was reading Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover together. It helped us get a better handle on how to communicate about money and how to pay off our car and SL in a sensible way.
The ladies on the Money Matters board have a lot of wise things to say and can help you out with questions as well.
Good luck, and lots of good vibes are being sent your way!
He does seem rather defensive about the whole money thing. I think overtime it will get better as long as you keep an open dialogue about it.
Also try & pay for everything w/your debit card so you know what the money is going towards. If you don't recognize where a charge is made, just ask him.
For now, I wouldn't pressure him about the OT. First track where your money is going, then create a realistic budget using mint.com & get him involved with the budget. Once he knows where you stand & sees how much he spends on x maybe he will cut back his spending or work extra OT to make up for the disparity. I'd give him a chance to do it on his own before you give him a guilt trip b/c that tactic generally doesn't work too well. In the end if he doesn't change on his own I would just remind him when he was starting to go over budget on something & ask him to be careful for the rest of the month so you can stick to your budget.
He needs to want to make a change & if he can't motivate himself to do it I don't think nagging him will make him more motivated.
It sounds like you're getting lots of good advice. I just wanted to add that I totally agree with the fun money idea. Especially if you separate it between him and you. My H gets frustrated, because I'm the one who's the 'boss' because I'm the one who pays attention to our budget. Now he's finally getting some money (not much because we are super broke as he's back in school), and he can spend it without asking me or talking about it. To be honest, he can't really spend any other money without asking first, because our budget is so tight. But this makes him feel like he can have fun/get what he likes, without asking first.
We also give ourselves that money (and all other money really) in cash rather than using the debit card. That way you can see how quickly its going, and you're more careful with it. The debit card makes it really hard to stay on a budget.
I really feel for you, getting DH to agree to a budget was hard work!! But I'm glad I stuck with it, I had no idea how much we were overspending before I did one up.
He though it all looked a bit too hard, so was happy to hand the whole thing over to me. I just use an excel speadsheet which lists our in's and out's, in both countries. Only took a couple of months to get us back in the black.
I totally agree with having spending money. DH and I both get an allowence every week, and it really helps us not feel so trapped.
Good luck with getting it all sorted.
I told DH about mint.com and he said to give it a try. I've inputted everything except for his savings account. I'm not sure how to enter an account that doesn't have online access, so if that's not possible, his savings won't be able to be entered. It literally made me feel sick to my stomach after seeing our spending history, especially in things like groceries and dining out. I think the biggest shock for me, though, was definitely the groceries. I had to go shopping today for groceries, and I was so much more conscious of my spending than in the past because I saw that total number.
He still does not like the idea of a budget, and would like me to look for a higher paying job. Being a teacher, I have explained to him that I will never make the kind of money that he seems to want me to make. And although my district pays about $7,000 less than other districts in the area, I am happy there and know that my job is safe, which right now means a lot more than the dollar signs. I know that the extra $7,000 I could make in another district would really help our financial situation, though, so it's a very difficult decision for me, but I think I'm going to stick it out in my district for at least another year; I just don't feel like my job there is done yet. That is very difficult for DH to understand, and I can certainly see his side here. I just honestly hate how much stress money is putting on us, so I told him that if I stay at my current position for next year, I promised that I would seriously look for another teaching job next year. This seemed to help, but not as much as I would like it to. We should find out if DH gets his promotion this week (fingers crossed!), which would also really help with our money worries.
Thanks for all of your wonderful advice. I'll keep you ladies posted!
Have you considered counseling? It really bothers me that he is telling you to leave a job you obviously really enjoy. He should want you to be happy & realize that money isn't going to solve all your problems. Even families with a three figure income have a monthly budget they adhere to. It's part of being an adult & being a married couple. I'm sure you start to save money if you are more mindful of certain purchases like food/clothing/dining out, etc. However, your budget won't mean anything if he doesn't want to follow it & isn't being a team player. You shouldn't have to do this alone.
I have considered asking if he'd be willing to speak with a financial counselor so that it isn't just me coming up with this budget. I feel like then I'd be less of the "bad guy" in the situation. We are honestly okay in other aspects of our life, so I don't think that a marriage counselor is quite in order, but the money issue is starting to bother me more. I attribute a lot of his behavior to the fact that he never lived away from home before we got married, and he's not used to having to watch his money. I mean, this is a boy who had 6 cars in the 5 years we dated, so money was never a problem in his family. I knew that this would be an issue, and we had discussed it prior to getting married, and the worst part is that his mother is just so proud of the fact that she was able to keep her "baby" at home until he was 23 years old. Gag me.
We talked this afternoon about trying to stick to a budget for March and see how it goes, so that's good. I also explained that it does upset me that I feel like he thinks my job isn't good enough when it really does make me happy. He apologized and said that he didn't really think that his comment about finding another job would upset me, as he thought I would be interested in making a little more money, too. So I guess we'll see how living off of a budget goes for March and re-evaluate then.
I hope it works out! Maybe implementing the budget will help him see that it's really not such a bad thing.
Money is an issue for us too; not that we fight about it, just that there's not a lot of it. I have a better idea of our spending and bills and such because I'm the one that writes the checks. DH has no debt aside from a little bit that we both created, but it's in my name. He had no credit history before we met. It was so weird to me.
Plus he just went part-time at his job (so he has time to look for a new, better paying one that doesn't make him so angry), so we're about to be stretched a little thinner. But we've had a budget in place for a long time now. We don't necessarily stick to it very strictly, but it's helpful to know where our money goes. It's helped us tweak our spending habits and we've been doing a lot better with saving lately.
Aaanyway. Obviously everyone's situation is different. Sending positive thoughts your way- hoping you two can find a workable solution.
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