Baltimore Nesties
mrsbecky07
member
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Midwife indicted for involuntary manslaughter
Article here
In the interests of keeping the board moving somewhat - what are our thoughts on midwives? birth centers? home births?
Re: Midwife indicted for involuntary manslaughter
I think that a mother of advanced maternal age who knows that their unborn child is in the breech position and thus, is entering into a very risky delivery, is stupid and selfish for not electing to have her baby in the hospital.
That's all I've got so far. Other opinions may form later.
I think that how you choose to give birth is a personal decision based on your expectations and comfort level. For myself, there was never any question in my mind that I wanted to deliver in a hospital where they are better equipped to deal with an emergency situation, should one arise. There's always a chance that something could go wrong (in a hospital, birth center, home, where ever).
I'm not sure charging the midwife with manslaughter is really appropriate. It sounds like she did everything she could. But then, I'm not that familiar with home birth so I'm not sure if there are procedures that she didn't follow or something like that.
BFP#1: 01/10, M/C 6w -- BFP#2: 06/10, M/C 5w -- BFP#3: 09/10, DS born June 1, 2011
BFP#4: 07/12, M/C 5w3d -- BFP#5: 12/12, EDD 08/18/13
Decorate This
The article made it sound like the midwife advised the patient that it was a bad idea but went ahead and assisted anyway. I don't know if that makes the mother's case for negligence stronger or not, but it seems like the midwife should've declined to assist.
I'm definitely supportive of midwives delivering in hospitals or birthing centers (I currently see a midwife for GYN appts) but I think that home delivery as a whole is a terrible idea.
Well, I personally wanted to give birth in a birth center, but was unable to go that route due to my induction and my insurance did not cover the birth center, only the midwives that worked there. I had and AWESOME birth experience with the midwives at the hospital.
From what I understand, the midwife is not certified - she is only trained as a midwife and NOT an RN. In MD, you have to be an RN to become a certified midwife.
I'm sure Karen (I think that's the mw's name) did everything in her power to deliver a healthy baby. The mother knew the risks and chose the route she did. I do not think the midwife should be punished for the death of a child, but should be charged with practicing without a license. Ultimately, the mother is 'responsible' for the outcome because of the method of delivery she chose. Then again, as Sarahkate said, the same outcome could have happened in a hospital.
FWIW, I think hospitals have their place in the whole pregnancy/birth event. I'm not so sure that many hospitals offer/have needless interventions or push women towards drugs or other processes that cause more interventions, etc. However, if a women wants to give birth in a hospital with an epidural, that is her business and her right and more power to her. (I am purposefully leaving out women who must give birth in a hospital setting due to complications.)
I like the idea of birth centers because (for those who want it) there are fewer interventions. Birth centers in MD are licensed. Also, the two in MD will NOT take any high-risk patients and the second they think there is a potential problem, they will take you to the hospital. They don't want to mess around with bad outcomes.
Homebirths, for me personally, I am not so sure about. What if something happens? Then again, most licensed homebirth midwives will not assist in a birth if a patient is high risk or there is even the slightest sign of a potential complication.
I equate this situation with parents who don't want to get their children medical care because of their personal beliefs...
Lawsuits like this make me sad. I feel for the parents; I can't imagine how terrible the whole thing was for them. But if a birthing center says they won't participate in your care b/c your birth is too difficult, then maybe you should abandon your plan and get to the hospital. I believe where/how you choose to give birth is a personal choice and women should have the freedom to do what they want, but within reason. It's sad that this woman felt so strongly about delivering at home that she ignored the birth center's warning. I understand that a lot of women think hospitals are too "medical" and not personal, push drugs, etc. But please, think of the health of your baby for heavens' sake! Plus, (and I've never given birth so maybe I'm mistaken) I would think you could stand up for what you want and say no, I don't want an epidural, I want the baby brought to me right away, etc etc.
I am pro-midwife, but I think she was a bit at fault here. Not to the degree of involuntary manslaughter, but perhaps negligence or practicing w/o a license. It is sad that midwives are not regulated/licensed the same in every state (and in fact all advanced practice nurses are licensed differently across the states, which is dumb too).
I would never do a home birth. It just grosses me out. I don't think I could keep sleeping in my bed knowing that I gave birth there. I'd do a birthing center though, but most likely I'll go to a hospital. A co-worker's wife gave birth a month ago in a birthing center but couldn't pass the placenta, started bleeding and had to be rushed to the hospital. She almost went to the ICU but luckily didn't have to. That makes me nervous so I think I'll stick with a hospital!
I think that the parents of the baby should be held just as responsible, if not more. They knew about the risks and chose to do it anyway. I would assume though there are papers that the parents had to sign, stating the they understand the risks? Kind of like before a surgery?
If so, how can the midwife be held responsible?
Obviously this is a very sad case. I think it's unfortunate that this became a criminal matter. It seems this was the mother's choice/decision to birth at home, a choice likely made because she did not want an automatic c/section.
It's not clear if the midwife was a CNM or even affiliated w/ the midwifery group that the mother was originally seeing for prenatal care.
As madladybride wrote there are different types of midwives, with varying levels of education/training, certification, who practice and deliver in various venues, etc. Midwives on a whole have better maternal and neonatal mortality & morbidity rates than OBs in the US. While we like to think that all hospital births go well, they don't. The vast majority of mothers in the US have hospital births, yet USA has a higher maternal mortality rate than 40 other nations and it's highly likely that our maternal death rate is vastly under reported (it's currently an "honor" system.) There are just as many risks associated with having a baby in a hospital as in a birth center or at home. For every home birth/birth center complication/horror story there will be a hospital tragedy that matches it. A friend of a friend delivered then died at Sibley after contracting meningitis from her epidural. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9818616/ns/dateline_nbc/
http://www.rememberthemothers.org/Fact%20Sheet%202005.pdf
Oh this is sad all around.
It really irks me when mothers get all gung ho with their idea of a perfect birth. I, somewhat, get the appeal of an intervention-free experience, but the mother in this case clearly dismissed very rational medical advice. She wanted to push the envelope, and it cost her child's life.
Obviously the midwife was wrong to practice without a license, (even though it appears she has tons of experience) but I'm still on the fence about charging her with involuntary manslaughter. She has to be held responsible somehow but the mother bears some of that responsibility as well.
I missed that part in the report. That is definitely wrong and I can see how that got her into trouble. But I still think the parents are the ones responsible. Also, did they know she wasn't licensed? If they did, it was once again their decision
According to the article, she's licensed in MD but not VA where she attempted to deliver the baby. It appears she's very well qualified, but in the eyes of the law, it doesn't matter.
Exactly this. I know people in my birth class who were going to birth with this particular midwife, and it's true she was very experienced and well-known in the field.
I believe birthing is a personal decision and that you have the right to birth where you want to. Not too long ago, babies used to be born in the breech position all the time - in fact, some doctors would turn the babies so they were in this particular position, because it was the position they would prefer to deliver babies in. You can be in danger in a hospital just as much as if you are at a birth center or having a homebirth. I switched from a hospital to a birth center, because I found that my choices were extremely limited in the hospital, even if I came in with specific requirements (i.e. I cannot personally have certain drugs common in labor). Not to say I don't recognize that a need may arise during the birth process where I would have to go to the hospital - as long as you are open to that. Like PP stated, the birth centers in MD do have very specific requirements to make sure only healthy, low-risk women give birth there. I would hate to see this incident backfire on the local midwife profession as a whole - I found I've had much better prenatal care & education with a midwife than with my OB. It's important that option remains open to women.
I am definitely pro-midwife and may be using one in the future. I am also pro- knowing the history of your professional.
This midwife has been working independently, under no board's or group's supervision, and is well-known in the area for a history of situations similar to the one now making the news. She is known locally for assisting women until the baby or the mother is in distress, and then abandoning the mother. The mother is left to run to an ER where her history is unknown by the doctors who may have to do an emergency delivery. This midwife (again referring to the one being indicted) is known for letting mothers go through their pregnancy or some portion of it with untreated gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, and other serious conditions. Because of this midwife's poor judgment, there have already been some near fatal situations for both mothers and babies.