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Nooner's manifesto. (long, but bear with me)
Ok, so this actually isn?t in response to everything that?s happened in the last few days with Smo. Related, yes. There has been a lot of things happening in my personal and professional life that has this topic on my mind, seems relevant to the events of the past few days and conflicts that have gone on in the past on this board. Take it for what it?s worth.
If someone says or does something we disagree with, so very much have a right to say such. But everyone has the right to their opinion, no matter how ignorant or insensitive it may be. And we have to accept the fact that it might change their opinion, but likely it will not.
This is a cruel, radical acceptance I HAVE to have in the job that I do. The first time I had a client relapse, I cried for over an hour, feeling like I was terrible at my job and that I had failed my client. Thank goodness an excellent coworker of mine shared this wealth of knowledge with me: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. My job is to lead my client to water. To provide them with education and help them explore the consequences of their behavior. But the harsh reality is that I cannot make them change. I cannot make them stay clean and sober. I cannot make them stay on their meds. I cannot make them a law abiding citizen.
Any attempt to do so would ruin the relationship I have with my clients. I would become a self-righteous preacher instead of a therapist. It would make my clients defensive and not listen to a word I said. Luckily, I don?t have this relationship with my clients. They listen to me because they respect me, because I meet them where they are at. I accept that they don?t have to listen to me. I accept that they are still capable of making their own decisions. If I don?t accept this, I will be miserable and hate my life and hate my job.
How does this relate to the Niners? Maybe the next time we all disagree, we can respect the fact that we may not change anyone?s mind. We can state our opinions respectfully, even if we disagree. For example, I can tell Ames that I think her comment was insensitive, even if I don?t think her intentions for malicious (for example). But I can?t get my panties in a bunch if she doesn?t agree and won?t apologize. She doesn?t have to see things my way. I have the right to say I don?t agree with what she says. And she has the right not to listen. Pushing the issue and forcing someone to try to see our point of view is not only exhausting, but just makes other people defensive and less likely to listen to our opinion anyway.
So that is my piece. Take it for what it?s worth, agree or disagree. If you disagree, please respect me enough to do it to my face.
Re: Nooner's manifesto. (long, but bear with me)
| cute shoes make me happy |
but I think why people get so defensive about Smo is that she just won't let it go until everyone agrees with her. Which often leads to the spiraling.
She could have said "ames, that was kind of insensitive."
ames probably would have said "I didn't mean any harm"
and Smo could have said "thanks you for at least acknowledging that you didn't mean any harm"
and it could have been left at that.
And Neuner, I totally appreciate what you said. I'm with you. Sometimes you have to take people as they are and realize there are imperfections in all situations.
Stand up for something you believe in.
I think Smo, besides Riss, is one of the most 'lets agree to disagree' kinda people on this board so her not letting it go is completely inaccurate.
And, again, Amelia not meaning any harm ISN'T the problem. The problem is, even without meaning any harm, Amelia doesn't see the racist issue with posting it.
This = you not letting it go and therefore proving the point of this post.
Wow...
Way to 100% prove Nooner's point.
updated 10.03.12
no. Smo does not agree to disagree. She doesn't stop until you agree that she's right. And the bolded part is exactly what I'm talking about. It isn't racist. Insensistive, maybe. Not racist. And when you keep insisting it is, just makes you look self-righteous and makes everyone else defensive. Your attitude will keep anyone from listening to anything you say.
I agree that 'agreeing to disagree' can be a helpful tool.
However, agreeing to look the other way when someone is engaging in racist behavior than that you makes you just as guilty as them.
I am not trying to let it go. Amelia hasn't even said she's wrong. Which she is.
but this is my point. I'm not saying you have to ignore it. But you also cannot force someone to change. You can't force Ames to say she's wrong. You can't force Ames to think she's wrong. You've put out your opinion, tried to provide support for that opinion. Now you need to accept that you've done what you can, but that it's not going to change anything. And LET IT GO.
You are not responsible for changing everyone's opinions. You can't. Accept that now.
This is the problem with lots of social workers. They think they can save the world (looks at SW2B's sn). Which is delusional and unrealistic.
I agree - that's what I had mentioned in my earlier post about how I wished things could have gone. I guess I'm not that confident that even if SMo had been more gentile in her comment, she would have been received differently. Again, I hope that everyone can improve at diffusing conflicts in the future by being respectful and fighting the knee-jerk response which is how it all escalates.
| cute shoes make me happy |
You would be wrong in that assumption, Riss. Had Smo approached me differently, I most assuredly would have been more receptive. As a matter of fact, I didn't even intend to acknowledge the post until other posters got involved. When it started to get out of hand, I tried to step in, and then it got even more out of hand.
SW2B, I haven't said I'm wrong because I still don't think I'm wrong. Your persistence hasn't convinced me otherwise. Was I wrong to keep the thread going and for some of the hurtful things said in retaliation? Perhaps. But some very, very hurtful things were said to me, mostly from your hand. I'm not going to sit back and take it.
I spend a lot of time at my job trying to save people from themselves, too. I see people that come in from accidental overdoses or so drunk they can hardly breathe and we tell them "You know, you should really quit that before you kill yourself." Sometimes they listen, sometimes (okay, a lot) they tell me to go F myself. Usually they end up coming back for the same problem. All I can do is educate people and see what they do with it. And then move on to the next one.
Congrats to both my TTC buddies, Amberley18 and sb2006 on their beautiful babies!
exactly.
I wasn't assuming you wouldn't have been receptive - I've seen you respond to those you disagree with in a polite and respectful manner. I just don't feel that confident that everyone would do the same in every situation, based on the history of this board. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong.
| cute shoes make me happy |
Okay, i see your point. Thanks for clarifying.
Nooner, I completely agree with you. I think sometimes we share the same brain. I think sometimes on this board people try to "outsmart" each other, and that doesn't help. The name-calling, and back and forth doesn't help either. I think people should say something if they feel offended, but then move in. I have seen it happen on this board, such as with Riss and McD.
I honestly took a break from the board for a little while. part of it was due to work being so busy, but part of it was due to some of the board dynamic.
I can see on some level why Smo was offended. I don't have a problem with Smo,and Stephanie I will be sad to see you go if you really do leave the board for more than just a little break. However, I don't think Amelia has a mean bone in her body and is not an ignorant person by any stretch of the imagination.
I know for me, a hot button issue is when people use words such as pimp, ho, etc. as slang and even the term "wifebeater" offends me. I am a woman, I work with families and young adolescents, and have a visceral response to those words. On the boards or IRL if people use them, I will say something but not drag it out.
I like everyone on this board, and find it to be a great forum to share joys and concerns in our lives or ask for advice. I hope people will be more peaceful amongst each other and people will not be afraid to post.
that's because we have the same brain. It's the "I work with people who suck and don't want to change" brain. And my button pusher is "old lady." HATE that phrase.