Same-Sex Marriage/MN Constitution Change Debate

anitalynn · May 2011

A short portion of the (sad, depressing) debate.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2011/05/the_same-sex_marriage_debate_i.shtml

mefindlay · May 2011

Damnit.

And I am ASHAMED of my senator Up Here voting YES! WTF Stumpf!

MrsKizdoodle · May 2011

WHEN WILL PEOPLE TAKE THE GIANT LEAP FORWARD FROM THE DARK AGES AND PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR PREJUDICED BUTTS?

WHO THE EFF CARES WHO GETS MARRIED? HOW DOES IT HURT JOE BOB SENATOR WHO GETS MARRIED?

WHO ARE YOU, JOE PUBLIC, TO JUDGE????????

Frickin A, man, frickin A.

anitalynn · May 2011

And, the fact that they want to put it up to a state constitutional amendment. Because letting the majority determine the rights of the minorities is certainly going to mean equality under the law for all people? I am so outraged over it!!

MrsKizdoodle · May 2011

I hate that this is even a debatable issue. I hope that one day in my lifetime this won't even give people pause for two seconds and they'll say, "Well, of course anyone should be able to get married." Gross.

I hate politics. And lawful inequality.

JosiePosy · May 2011

My cousin invited me to go to the capitol and protest with him the other night, but I couldn't make it. Just messed up tyat we are discussing this crap when there are so many important things to discuss.

jennyk213 · May 2011

MrsKizdoodle:
I hate that this is even a debatable issue. I hope that one day in my lifetime this won't even give people pause for two seconds and they'll say, "Well, of course anyone should be able to get married." Gross.
I hate politics. And lawful inequality.

Agreed. I think it's as disgusting as the laws that prevented interracial marriages.

This is a religious issue and religion should stay out of politics. If a religion doesn't want to recognize it, fine. But the government has no business regulating morality. All the holier than thou people who think same sex couples are threatening marriage need to pull the sticks out of their @sses and get a grip.

Interestingly, the federal government is now saying they won't enforce DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). I haven't followed what it means in other areas but in the immigration context, it has opened up a whole new interesting playing field for intrepid same-sex couples married in their home countries. Watching the cases slowly get into the federal courts has been interesting.

JosiePosy · May 2011

I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.

Bimbi284 · May 2011

JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.

Preach!

chaoticmum · May 2011

Bimbi284:
JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.
Preach!

EXACTLY!

wittyschaffy · May 2011

JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.

LOVE! This sums up my confusion exactly. I don't give one iota who loves who. I guess they're concerned about people scamming the benefits system maybe but really, in the grand scheme of things that is small potatoes compared to the larger issues at hand.

Steph0871 · May 2011

jennyk213:
Agreed. I think it's as disgusting as the laws that prevented interracial marriages.
This is a religious issue and religion should stay out of politics. If a religion doesn't want to recognize it, fine. But the government has no business regulating morality.

I totally get what you're saying (and I agree.) But, to be nit-picky. I'm fine with the government regulating morality (in terms of abuse, stealing, etc.) However, I don't see anything immoral about gay marriage, so the whole "government regulating morality" shouldn't even apply here at all.

jennyk213 · May 2011

Steph0871:
jennyk213:
Agreed. I think it's as disgusting as the laws that prevented interracial marriages.
This is a religious issue and religion should stay out of politics. If a religion doesn't want to recognize it, fine. But the government has no business regulating morality.
I totally get what you're saying (and I agree.) But, to be nit-picky. I'm fine with the government regulating morality (in terms of abuse, stealing, etc.) However, I don't see anything immoral about gay marriage, so the whole "government regulating morality" shouldn't even apply here at all.

Good point. Murder would fit in there too. I meant to exclude moral issues that contribute to an orderly society and poorly worded it.

Termiknitter · May 2011

I am so disgusted and sad about this. Today, I am not at all proud to be a Minnesotan. Our laws cannot be based on the morality dictated by any one, or any combination of, religion(s). It is imperative that we return to clearly defined boundaries of separation of church and state.

Depriving people of civil rights is simply barbaric and shameful.

MAYA3300 · May 2011

Isn't it funny how the supporters of this ban (mainly Republicans) are anti government and against government regulations. Except when it benefits their pocketbooks, their reelection campaigns, and oppresses the rights of others, then they're all in support of using the government to legislate the lives of citizens.

MAYA3300 · May 2011

I'm guessing their idea of creating "more jobs" is to ban gay marriages.

=Numbers= · May 2011

JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.

This!!

razamataz · May 2011

jennyk213:
Steph0871:
jennyk213:
Agreed. I think it's as disgusting as the laws that prevented interracial marriages.
This is a religious issue and religion should stay out of politics. If a religion doesn't want to recognize it, fine. But the government has no business regulating morality.
I totally get what you're saying (and I agree.) But, to be nit-picky. I'm fine with the government regulating morality (in terms of abuse, stealing, etc.) However, I don't see anything immoral about gay marriage, so the whole "government regulating morality" shouldn't even apply here at all.
Good point. Murder would fit in there too. I meant to exclude moral issues that contribute to an orderly society and poorly worded it.

I would argue that it is still a "government should not legislate morality" issue. Murder, abuse, theft - - those are all ethical issues to me. Ethical issues are secular and address behavior in a civil, orderly society. Moral issues can overlap with ethical, but have at their heart a religious foundation and justification.

Thus, murder, theft, and the like fall under the moral category when the justification for outlawing them is the bible and the ten commandments (or the Koran or the Torah or whatever religious philosophy you wish). They are ethical issues when logic is applied and the justification is that an orderly civil society cannot function if such behavior goes unpunished.

Since I have yet to hear a logical secular justification for the push to outlaw gay marriage, it is, at least in my perspective, a moral issue to those who wish to ban it. And moral issues have no business being up to a government vote.

It is a disappointing day for MN politics and I can only hope that when this issue is put before the general population, Minnesotans as a whole will show more enlightenment, thoughtfulness and reason than their elected representatives.

pattymctatty · May 2011

This makes me VERY angry.

I've tried to type out a response four times and I'm just too angry.

Steph0871 · May 2011

razamataz:

Since I have yet to hear a logical secular justification for the push to outlaw gay marriage, it is, at least in my perspective, a moral issue to those who wish to ban it. And moral issues have no business being up to a government vote.

That's what I was trying to get at with my post. Yes, to some people it is a morality thing, but to me it's not, because I don't see anything immoral. Regardless, it's not something that should be decided by the government. (I think we were both saying the same thing, just from a different side of it!)

Like you said, I have yet to hear one single logical reason why gay marriage should not be legal. All of the reasons I've heard have religious basis to them, and that's bullshit. ETA: To clarify- religion is not bullshit. But using religion as an excuse to prohibit people from marrying is bullshit, when we supposedly have separation of church and state.

oh, and Jenny- I figured that's how you meant it. I've just heard that argument way too often lately from people who MEANT that it is immoral, so the government should ban it.

RachelandEduardo · May 2011

Bimbi284:
JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.
Preach!

Exactly. Its being used as a distraction from all of those things.

Steph0871 · May 2011

I grew up in WI, so I voted against a similar ban a few years ago. I remember thinking "well, at least Minnesota won't be this stupid. Hopefully once MN legalizes gay marriage, WI will follow suit."

Guess I'm eating my words now.

Steph&J · May 2011

This pie chart says it all

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/what-will-happen-gay-marriage-legalized.png

MrsKizdoodle · May 2011

pattymctatty:
This makes me VERY angry.
I've tried to type out a response four times and I'm just too angry.

Haha...I just let it rip and the result was my bolded word vomit up above. Big Smile

MrsKizdoodle · May 2011

Steph&J:
This pie chart says it all
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/what-will-happen-gay-marriage-legalized.png

Love it!

roxane · May 2011

I'm hoping that one day my daughter will read about this in history books and say "Really, they wouldn't let them get married? That is just stupid and mean." Which is pretty much what I said when I found out about the discriminatory laws and policies around race.

Ethics and morality aside, the reason they are bringing this up now, when there are so many other seemingly more important issues to tackle, is the Republicans have control of both the house & the senate, so they are going to take the advantage while they have it. This always happens. The Dems do the same thing when they get control. It makes sense. You do what you can when the opportunity arises. If they wait until these issues are resolved, they may not have the chance.

Steph0871 · May 2011

Up until 1967 interracial marriage was still illegal in some states. That's within my parents lifespan. H and I could have been denied the right to get married; how ridiculous is that?!

I really hope in 40 years we can look back to now and go "WTF were they thinking?" to the whole gay marriage ban, too.

huwehotaling · May 2011

JosiePosy:
I just want someone to explain to me why this is more important than the deficit, jobs, infrastructure, health care, etc. Why do we want government uninvolved in your health care, but way involved in your marriage? Someone needs to explain it to me like I'm 5.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I thought MN was supposed to be a progressive state. Instead, I feel like we went backwards about 40-50 yrs.

sjb&apa · May 2011

I don't even know what to say beyond what has already been said, other than I will for sure vote NO on this amendment.

Check out this facebook page if you don't support this amendment.

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