Maine Nesties
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Pet question
I have been reading up on [the nest] pet parenting philosophy.
That has lead to a hypothetical question that I don't have the balls to ask on Pets
The givens:
Breeders are bad. People who's pets have babies are bad. Backyard Breeders are bad. Pet stores are bad.
People who re-home animals are mostly bad/selfish/d-bags. Limited exceptions.
You should adopt a pet from a shelter or a rescue. This is the only acceptable way to obtain a pet.
The questions:
If in an ideal world; no one breeds, no one re-homes, and all pets get fixed, after X number of years when the shelters are empty where can people get a pet?
Is the goal to make pets extinct?
What is the goal? Is the goal obtainable?
Re: Pet question
I *think* that what they say isn't that ALL breeders are bad but that byb are. So there would always be the option of purchasing a pet from a reputable breeder in that case.
I don't see the extinction of pets ever becoming a possibility. That is like hoping that all people who are not responsible enough for kids, don't get pregnant, and that there will no longer be any kids who are fostered or put up for adoption. Its a "perfect" world but would never happen.
I think that the goal would be that those who choose to become pet owners are responsible individuals. That they don't allow their pets to have multiple litters when they don't have responsible homes available for them. That pets are treated as someone who has thoughts and feelings and not as accessories that are easily traded.That pets are given the best chance at having a happy and healthy life.
Keep in mind these are more my thoughts and I can't speak much as a Pestie, I only did some lurking when we first adopted Ali. Copperdog may be able to give you a better response?
This was always my understanding too.
The general mindset over on the Pets board is that not all breeders are bad, but the reputable ones are few and far between. There are definitely people on that board who are anti breeding all together, but those people view the problem of stray and homeless animals as such a huge issue that it's never going to be resolved 100%. The goal (of those who are totally anti-breeders) is to stop/restrict animal breeding to the point where there is more demand for shelter pets than can be met. Basically until there are no more homeless animals. Obviously they realize that there are far too many people in the world who don't agree with their viewpoint to make this a reality so they promote the idea pretty vehemently.
So who's going to start breeding domestic cats? Because I don't want a purebred! I believe the optimal price for a pet cat is approximately free.
Then again, I'm sure I'd be persona non grata over on the pets board. The second my cat draws blood on my DD unprovoked, he will be leaving my house.
I definitely think there are breeders out there who deeply care for the animals they are breeding and only produce a few litters per year, make sure they aren't inbred, etc. But the breeders who meet you at a gas station are the ones that give good breeders a bad name, that are out for the money. Personally, my blood pressure goes up a bit when I hear family/friends talking about spending a grand on a purebred puppy when we got our amazing lab/pit mix for a hundred bucks from the shelter. I realize it's not my money and have no right getting upset at how ppl spend money, but it just seems illogical to me. not to mention how much more purebreds get sick or have knee/hip/breathing problems
I enjoy the thought provoking question
I don't pay much attention to this kind of stuff but want to put out there that my brother is a dog breeder. He has his kennel license...or something...he has a special name. He breeds a certain kind of dog. Every year or two he takes one of his females to a special dog in North Carolina or something...it is quite a process. He takes good care of his dogs, trains them, hunts with them, etc.
I see nothing wrong with what he is doing...and if weren't for people like him how the hell would you get a purebred English Setter? I mean...you aren't going to get one at the shelter.
I never thought of it but I rescued both my cats! One from a drug dealer and one from a farm!
Our dog is a purebred (from a "real" breeder, with AKC papers, etc) and our cats are both feral/rescues.
I generally avoid the Pets board and just ask pet questions/discuss pet stuff on my home board. I think they are a little batty over there.
Both of my dogs are purebreds and both rescues. I volunteer with a rescue (and I know there are a couple more Maine nesties who do who haven't weighed in yet) and my standpoint on the fact is that I watch 20-25 dogs get put down every day from the one shelter that my rescue works with in Manhattan... amazing, purebred, dogs, most who are rated No Concern or Mild on their evals (I understand putting them down if there are questionable issues about their behavior). Yesterday, 5 week old kittens were on the To Be Destroyed list. And I see puppies on there all the time. For me, looking into their eyes, knowing that they've had a shitty life to begin with, it's all I can do not to pull dogs constantly and have my house filled with fosters. They're usually malnourished, dirty and the females have probably been bred several times and not cared for and then thrown to the streets when they're done being used. Yet, the dogs are loving, affectionate and want to love life.
I wrote two blog posts recently about rescuing if you're interested.
1. This is what I wrote right before I took in my last foster:
http://carharttsandcoachbags.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/now-this-should-have-been-on-my-list/
2. This is what I wrote after she found her forever home:
http://carharttsandcoachbags.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/diamonds-are-a-girls-best-friend/
I definitely see why registered and reputable breeders are needed - when they're bettering the breed, I'm all for it. But when people are breeding just for the sake of breeding, it makes me a little sad. Plus, I get frustrated when people say, I'm only buying from a breeder because then I know what I'm going to get, etc. One of my best friends refused to ever think about adoption so she bought a very expensive yellow lab puppy and the dog is a total spaz and another friend had a choc lab pup that really ripped up her wrist with a bite because something was wrong with him biologically so it's not always the best option either.
That being said, to each their own. Contrary to what you might think, I don't spend a ton of time on the Pets Board, partly because although I see their points, I also understand where other people are coming from and think it's better to educate in a way that helps people understand, not by bullying them into thinking something different.
The question I ask myself all the time (and not just with this subject because I'm passionate about many) is, do I want to be right or do I want to be effective?
I hope that makes sense and wasn't too preachy.
And I'm happy to answer pet questions, or help find anyone a pup whenever they'd like! If you're interested, follow Urgent Part 2 on FB to check out some of the dogs available on any given day in Manhattan. We work with these shelters because they generally have the most pitties, mastiffs and rotties and that's what we "specialize" in.
https://www.facebook.com/Urgentdeathrowdogs?ref=ts
Some random pet thoughts.
I think a lot of people on Pets mean well but are wayyyy over the top and judgmental.
For instance, Brianne, your brother is the ONLY kind of breeder who would be considered acceptable because he has only a few, does shows, etc. Anybody who breeds a "pet quality" animal vs. a "show quality" or champion animal was quickly run off the Maltese board I used to visit when looking for a dog. I understand the mindset and even the reasons for it but in practice, it just turns mean and unrealistic.
I think puppy mills are disgusting and should absolutely be put out of business.
My free-from-a-box-on-the-side-of-the-road kitten is the best critter I've ever lived with.
Really, Darcie said it perfectly and I don't much more to add. I'm all for correct breeding, truly doing it do better the breed and continue lines etc. My aunt bred Yorkshire terriers in NY and has many champions under her belt. It wasn't just about breeding and getting papers. She was always doing genetic testing, after her dogs were sold (and a lot weren't b/c she kept most) she would keep tabs on them and do yearly x-rays and blood tests to ensure there wasn't a history of hip dysplasia, cushings etc that are prevalent in Yorkies.
I'm an adovcate for rescuing. In the end, like Darcie said I try to educate rather then be right. I know so many people who want dogs from breeders etc. b/c "they know what they'll get." No one knows what they'll get. They are animals, there is no guarantee with anything. I helped work one of Maine's biggest puppy mill seizures and it was so horrific I will never forget. I'll also never forget seeing these amazing animals at a reunion and seeing the pure joy in their faces. Unlike humans, these animals can forgive and forget and it's a beautiful thing
:'(
ETA: The whole thing makes me sad - that ANY animals are put down, no matter their age. Just thinking about babies being on the kill list really struck me, I guess.
Thanks for the input and different perspectives!
I just have to say I am usually a regular on the Pets board, be it a new one. If you had asked that question on there as you had on here, they would have been respectful and answered your question nicely. Sometimes people think they are so "over the top" over there because the overall thought is that you don't give up your pet. If you do...you should have never got that pet in the first place. Pets are for life, not just a time in your life.
Also, as others have said most people on the pets board are ok with licensed breeders for the reasons some have mentioned.
I also just wrote a whole long rant about children and pets, but I was getting really frustrated so I deleted it. It's a touchy subject with me and I don't want to piss anyone off.
Yeah, I didn't really expect to get flamed for asking on Pets, I just didn't need my first post on that board to be so up-front. But, at the same time, I had really been spinning my wheels about the whole question and needed to get it out there.
While I might not think that pets = people and there is a limit to how much money I would spend on medical treatment for a pet that needed continuing treatment of a chronic or terminal disease, I do agree that getting a pet is not a temporary idea. It is a serious commitment. Animals are not fashion accessories.
I also think that pet raising decisions that are not clearly; blatantly harmful should be respected. It seems that people are much more willing to accept differences in raising children than in raising pets. I read all the time on parenting sites "do what is best for your child and your family" but I don't see the same sentiment on the animal sites I have been reading.