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Who's your daddy?
I have a daughter, O, who will be 4 years old in a month. I have been with the man I am engaged to, J, for 3 1/2 years. The only father "our" daughter knows is my fiance. He has raised her with me for a little over 3 years, however she does see her father infrequently. That is none of my doing however. She has a visitation schedule with him and we have a child support agreement. He was actually the one who created the visitation stating that he "doesn't much care for children and my mom will be the one spending the most time with her anyway." He still lives at home with his parents and works overnights, so he is sleeping while she is there. (On a side note, he started this job almost a year after everything was signed and in order). He chooses to sleep the whole 8 hours, twice a month that she is there instead of shortening his sleep twice a month in order to spend time with her. The up side is that O gets to spend time with his parents and they adore her, as well as respect me. They are very unhappy with their son for the way he treats me and O and they make it known how crappy of a "father" he is.
The point to all of that is this: for the last two years, O has called J "Papa". This does not bother me nor J as it is understandable in our situation. J is her dad and that is all she really knows. J and I took no part in asking her to call him "daddy" or "papa" or anything. She actually came up with it on her own and asked us at dinner if J could be her "papa". At the time I thought it was a phase, but now she lets everyone know that J is her "papa" and that's all there is to it. Again, this is not a bother to anyone...except she has started talking about her Papa in front of her father's parents. Who are not happy. At all. In fact, they shut the door in J's face when he drops O off nor do they speak to him. O's father's mother refuses to speak to J at all. The family I have spoken to about this says it's normal and it is nothing to be worried about, but I do NOT want them disrespecting my fiance (and later on, husband) because their own son doesn't want to step up to the plate and be a dad. J has supported O financially, mentally and physically and has loved her as his own for the last 3 years. J tells me that is doesn't bother him that O's fathers' parents disrespect him, but I can see in his eyes that it does hurt. (J drops her off when I cannot because of work.)
I know this isn't a huge life or death situation, but I don't want to be dealing with this for the next 14 years because O's father is a dimwit. Any advice?
Re: Who's your daddy?
My girls know my husband as their Daddy. They started calling him Daddy on their own and we did not discourage it since their bio dad was not involved, similar to what is going on with you. He is not a kid person and had a hard time dealing with diaper changes, feedings, etc.
Fast forward a few years and their bio dad does have an involvement in their lives. They know him as the "other daddy". In their little minds, this is what they have come up with. They understand that he and I were together at one time, but they don't remember or understand how it all ties in. They just know that my husband is their Daddy and we are a family.
My husband is the one who wakes up every morning with them, tucks them in at night, knows their favorite color, attends their school functions, eats dinner with them, kisses their boo-boos, etc. That is the definition of Daddy. Your ex chose to do things this way, not you.
I would make it very clear to the GrandParents that they will treat your fiance with respect. It is not his fault that their son has chosen to be the way that he is. They are doing this right in front of your daughter. You have an obligation to show your daughter what respect is and isn't and, whether they like it or not, J is in your daughter's life and that is just the way it is.
Not a good example for O.:( Your ex's parents need to treat your FI civilly; it's expected. And it's the right thing to do.
It costs nothing to be nice to somebody.
I'd take them to task if I were you --- do it when you are alone iwth them and not while the kiddo is there or can hear you -- and demand they be civil to your FI.
You are a team with your FI the same as he is a team with you. You're supposed to have his back.
He's going to be in the picture for the very very long run. Not nice of them at all.
I think it is understandable that your daughter has chosen to fill the void of "fathership" with someone who is actually acting in that capacity. Your problem is that while the paternal grandparents recognize that their son is an absentee father, that man is still their son. And, in supporting him with the whole living arrangement they have in effect supported what they find so intolerable in him. I imagine that their recognizing their son's shortcomings and failings is a lot different that recognizing that their own granddaughter also sees the failings in their son. The rudeness to your FI is more than likely their avenue of displaced anger at their son and really nothing personal to your FI. If he's a sharp fellow, your FI may be thinking this as well. However, you two have to understand that while he may not mind (or be able to overlook) the slights right now, that the slights *will* become more and more pronounced and noticeable to your daughter. This is not healthy for the child.
Another possibility is that the only link they have to this child is honestly through their son. I think they are understanding that you have replaced their son, and have remained polite to you because you are the avenue to their granddaughter, short of moving for legal grandparental rights - they might have a fear that with the solidifying of your and FIs relationship that they will loose their specialness with their granddaughter. Honestly, that is not a far fetched fear either - as his parents will then become grandparents - particularly if the two of you decide to pursue adoption (which, I honestly would).
Perhaps it is time to cash in on the respect card that they have for you. I would suggest inviting them out to dinner at a semi-private place (to keep things from becoming heated or emotional) and get a baby sitter for the little one. I would start by stating how appreciative you have been for their role in your LOs life, and how they have respected you when most parents can't see past 100% loyalty to their own adult child. I would express what you think might be their fears as this relationship with FI goes forward, and to state that you are not forbidding the relationship to become familial between your FI and your daughter. That they are fortunate to have someone so sturdy in their granddaughter's life and that it would be to her benefit for them to see the same familial relationship displayed between them and this man who is going to be a permanent fixture in her life rather than a threat to theirs.
J is the same with O as your hubby is with your daughters. I leave for work at an unacceptable hour so he is the one that wakes her in the morning and gets her ready for the day and then delivers the cuddles at night.
We very much want to pursue adoption. That is a very big hope for both J and I. I still want O to see the grandparents, but I want the father-daughter relationship to be official. Both J and I realize that this may not be possible so we are prepared to be OK if it falls through.
I have mentioned your suggestion about taking them out to dinner with J. He says that that is a great idea as both of the grandparents are relatively quiet people and do not drink or do anything close to rowdy.
In fact, I forgot to mention this earlier because my post was getting long: my mother and step-father (who raised me from the age of 5 years) are pretty good friends with O's bio paternal grandparents. They became friends after O's first birthday and have continued to keep in good contact with each other.
You think that J and I have a good chance of adoption? Is it really worth pursuing?
Your chances, quite frankly, depend on many factors that I can't know, both personal and state related. I will share that your ex would have to be in agreement with it or proven to be unfit (absentee in some cases). That's when you are going to find out if he's truly disinterested in the kid or if he's just lousy at being a dad, frankly. In my case (a long time ago, I'm quite a bit older than you), my ex was loathe to give up the kids to save face with his parents. In the end he decided it was cheaper for him (facing jail time for child support) and offered to "sell" the kids to me so he would go scott free. During our earlier attempts for adoption, we were treated as evil despite his history of (and jail time for) domestic violence, drinking and drug addictions and criminal activity. Once it was his idea however, everyone in the court treated him as if he were a martyr. I didn't care, and snapped up the opportunity.
If he really is disinterested in being a father, and doesn't care one way or the other about saving face with his parents, then you may have a similar "swap" in the making. Your big hurdle, again will be the ex-ILs - which you, again, may sway by giving them the pros for their granddaughter for adoption (healthier sense of self, medical and emergency provision, et cetera) while concreting their role in her life as not disappearing with the adoption/marriage. You may even suggest to them that the adoption be done in tandum with a court order protecting their grandparents rights...that way they know that nothing "sneaky" is in the works for their "removal."
Good luck.
Wow. Just. Wow. I cannot thank you enough for your advice!!! This has given me a new view on how to work with the ex-IL's. Thank you so, so much!
I cannot see my ex making a decision. It would be his mother's decision. I have a feeling he would not agree to the adoption just to continue stringing me and FI along because that's the way he is. Like you stated, he will probably not be OK with it unless it is his idea. I would put something in the order stating O will still have regular visitation with the ex-IL's so as not to mess up that relationship.
I should note, that my ex hasn't complied with the court order completely, which is annoying, but doesnt harm anyone. He first told me that he couldn't carry her on insurance because his employer didn't offer him insurance. Well, after a year I finally found out that his employer actually has TWO different insurances that they carry and he then told me it's too expensive to have her on his insurance. O rarely goes to the doctor aside from well-child check ups and seasonal allergies so it really wouldn't be that expensive. I would have to pay him all of the out of pocket expenses anyway. Also, he is supposed to be dropping her off after her visits, but he refuses to so his parents drop O off. He is supposed to be in contact with me regarding any changed to the regular weekend schedule, but instead I have to go through his parents because he refuses to talk to FI and he cannot talk to me without swearing at me or calling me names. So...I have to go through his parents. Technically he is violating the court order in most aspects, but since it isn't actually harmful to anyone I have let it go. I really dont have the funds to call my lawyer up again and start this all over again or hold him in contempt of court. It actually kind of easier having her on my insurance...
imo, being a father has nothing to do with providing DNA. It has everything to do with providing love, care and protection. This is what your FI does, ergo J is O's father and your ex is just the a-hole who complicates her life. Through his humility in putting O's relationship with her biological grandparents ahead of his own feelings, J proves that he is a real man - one who would make such sacrifices for his daughter.
I don't know what it would cost emotionally or financially for you to exercise the power you have to force your ex and his parents to comply with all the legal agreements to which he is bound. I don't know if that would promt your ex into alowing J to formally adopt O, so he could be relieved of these obligations. However, I'm pretty sure J would appreciate if you would stop referring to your ex as O's father. Your ex is her biological father. J is her real Papa.
It's called "projection".
It's a psychological term. The grandparents are projecting their anger regarding their son's lack of parenting on the new father figure. Instead of dealing with the REAL source of the problem, their son, they are projecting it onto the innocent man who is acting in good faith.
Don't get hung-up on "respect" and making these people not be emotional idiots. I can't imagine why they allow their grownass son to live in their house and witness him ignore his daughter. You need to step-up and say that when this behavior happens in front of the child, it is not okay. You have to make this about the child and sticking up for her sense of security that the adoring grandparents in her life show dignity and respect for her father figure. Yes, it sucks for them. Yes, they have feelings about it. But no, it's not okay to let your child witness this, even a little. So, you need a sit-down talk. You need to hear them out on their feelings. I'm sure they are disappointed, sad, and angry. That's allowed. Then they need to get over it or at least fake it at drop-offs, or you won't use him at drop-off and that will mean less drops-offs. Because that's reality and reasonable. Don't threaten it, just say it. All of you have a lot on the line to get along - them visitation, you child support. And its ALL at risk. So have a conversation, or two.