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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Poll and discuss: Casey Anthony
The jury is deliberating now. They have 7 charges, some are lying to the police and then obviously first degree murder. It sounds like some are easy to decide (lying) and some will be harder for the jury (1st degree). For reference, the OJ jury deliberated 4 hours, Scott Peterson's jury deliberated for 7 days.
[Poll]
Love 9.3.03
Marriage 12.1.07
Baby Carriage 8.3.11
Re: Poll and discuss: Casey Anthony
I think when you look at the specific charges, it's pretty black and white with everything except 1st degree murder. I think the 4-7 counts of lying to the police are obviously guilty. Child abuse is a guilty because she didn't report Caylee missing for 31 days and lied about where she was and who had her, to me negligence = abuse. Manslaughter I think will be another guilty that's not hard to agree on.
Because the 1st degree is all circumstantial, I could see them going not guilty there, and instead choosing 2nd degree. It's hard to say she had intent when you don't know how Caylee died, when, where, etc. Whose to say Casey didn't just go nuts and decide in the heat of the moment to kill her rather than plotting ahead of time.
I'm thinking they'll come back this afternoon with a verdict.
Also, Casey looks like a deer in headlights today and she did yesterday, as well. Good.
I pretty much agree with all of this. If I was a juror, I don't think there would be enough solid evidence to support 1st degree. They haven't proved much. I also still think there's something else going on. People have lied left & right, this family has some serious issues and her dad gives me the creeps.
ETA: I'm not sure on the time frame though. I think they might spend a little more time on the murder charges. I think they might even get into a heated discussion on the facts there are to support 2nd degree murder. They can't go on gut and feelings here...it may seem obvious, but there needs to be concrete facts/evidence.
There are plenty of cases that have ended in a frist degree conviction based on circumstantial evidence. The Scott Peterson trial mentioned above is one of them.
Something important to remember that the prosecution brought up in closing arguments and the judge brought up when reading the instructions to the jury is that when a child is involved like in this case 1st degree murder does not require premeditation. She can be found guilty of 1st degree murder for two reasons, premeditated or felony. Felony means (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the death of a child occurred due to willfull child abuse. So if you believe Casey drugged Caylee with chloroform on purposes but accidentally od'ed her on it and that's how Caylee died, that's felony murder of the 1st degree. The jury has to agree on 1st degree but doesn't have to agree on premeditated or felony to be unanimous.
Does that change anyone's opinion now?
I do remember the judge saying this and this might be how they'll be able to come back with a first degree murder conviction. I'm not so sure they're going to be able to get all jurors to agree on this though. I hope I'm wrong.
Also, I could be remembering this incorrectly...but I don't seem to remember the Peterson case being this big of a train wreck. I think there are still a lot of holes and a lot of things that don't add up here & while it's easy to form my opinion sitting on my couch from home, I might need a bit more if I'm sitting on that jury and being the one responsible for determining this conviction.
ETA: I totally think she's guilty btw...I just wonder about all of the things that can be going through the minds of all of these jurors. I also think it's interesting that all of the experts they had weighing in on this case unanimously agreed that the prosecution did not do what they needed to do to prove 1st degree.
Yes! I didn't know when it's a child that it's a felony and 1st degree.
Honestly, I think the choloroform is strong evidence, but the duct tape is what really blows my mind. The chloroform theory let's me believe that maybe it was an accidental OD, but when there's duct tape over her face, it just screams murder, on purpose, meant to happen, no questions!
This has been my theory all along. Once I heard about the chloroform I assumed this is what she did. Again, no concrete evidence, but strong feelings in this direction. Although, until now I never thought about it being a possible 1st degree murder scenario.
Yeah, I think they called it aggravated child abuse. This case is the first time I heard this & I think it's a fantastic option. I'm glad they take it that seriously.
This is what I think happened but was unaware it would be considered first degree murder. Thanks for the clarification.
Thank you for explaining that, I missed the closing arguments and didn't realize that was the case. Very interesting. I hope they convict her of 1st degree murder, I can't imagine ever harming a child like that.
I was reading some stuff earlier that was saying if they do convict her, she may appeal based on an incompetent defense.. ugh.
I'm not sure about this. Being in Cali while it was all going on, it seemed pretty crazy and train-wreckey to me.
If you want to read about or watch a dateline episode regarding a very circumstantial evidence case where the accused was found guilty of aggravated murder (so essentially 1st degree) and is currently serving a life in prison sentence look up Dr. Mark Wangler. A few of the jury in this case was interviewed in the dateline special and they even admitted the prosecution never proved HOW the murder was committed, yet they still found him guilty after two days of deliberating.
Cool, I'll look at that. Thanks! For some reason (and like I said, I can't really recall why now) I remember being more convinced by the evidence & testimonies in the Peterson case.
Really though, I think they're both guilty. I don't buy the defenses claims and it seems pretty obvious that Casey had a hand in what happened to her....I can just see how it's possible for a juror to have enough doubt in their minds to not be convinced of first degree. I guess I just don't think the prosecution did as good of a job as I would have thought when this case started.
I told LB about the Dr. Mark Wangler case too and may have mentioned it on here before. Coincidentally, Dr. Spitz was an expert witness for the defense in this case as well.