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discipline- what works for you?
I saw in the post last week regarding the CNN article, that many of us have some stubborn, strong willed kids. I am at my wits end with mine right now, as no form of discipline seems to have an effect on him. The last few weeks DS has thrown full out screaming, throwing things, hitting, kicking tantrums when he hasn't gotten his way, that have gone on for 30 minutes or more. He's also started going into rooms and locking the doors, throwing things around, etc. I'm so frustrated right now! Spanking, time out, taking away privileges...nothing is getting through to him. We have his 4 year old well child appointment tomorrow and I plan to discuss the issues with our pedi then.
What works for your strong willed child? Those of you who have seen behavior specialists and the like, at what point and what age did you decide it was time for that step?
TIA!
Re: discipline- what works for you?
We have found that giving choices works well for us. For example, when she is in meltdown mode (works best at home, but we've had to do it in public), I will ask her if she wants to stop doing _____ or if she wants to continue throwing her fit in her room. If she doesn't stop, we go to her room and I tell her again that she can come out and rejoin us when she can behave, but if she wants to have a tantrum, it will be in her room, by herself. Sometimes she stays in there for a while and other times she comes out like a new person just a few minutes later.
We still have our moments, but it is getting better.
We started seeing a specialist late last year. DH is gone 22 days at a time and she put me through utter hell for one of the 22 day hitches. I had such a hard time with her one night, I called our EAP line because I didn't know what else to do. It was one of the best calls I have made in my life.
No insight yet, just hugs and thoughts for support. I hope you can get the answers you need.
Jess - it's the Employee Assistance Program through an employer's insurance program.
I have gotten some great advice from Kellynkyle for my strong willed child.
If I want him to do something I'll say "can you do it by the time I count to 20?" and I'll start counting and it becomes a game.
If he's throwing a tantrum we send him to his room and tell him when he's calm we can talk about it. Being ready to listen about it means you are calm and quiet.
The louder he gets the quieter I get so that he has to be quiet to hear what I am saying.
I put him in time out still.
Tru's teachers helped us get tantrums in line by doing what the others have mentioned. If he had a tantrum at school, they made him have it outside the class (it's a free standing building) on the porch. He could return when he was calm. If he wants to have a tantrum at home, he can do it on his bed and that's it. We tell him calmly "please go to your bed. Tantrums and screaming are not allowed at the table/in the living room/etc..." if he throws any toys while in his room, they get taken away. I think it's important to warn ahead of time that this is going to happen, though. It has really worked wonders because we are very consistent with it.
And yes to consistency over all. But also make the punishment fit the crime. If you give big punishments for small crimes out of frustration, you have nothing left when big bad things happen. This is something I always have to work on with DH!
Kohen has been "difficult" since he was 18 months old. I always thought he would just grow out of it and that is what friends and family would tell me. "It's just a phase". When the terrible two's, three's, four's never passed I knew that there was something I needed to do whether is be a parenting class (because I felt like such a failure) or taking him for some help.
Time outs do not work
Trying to talk him down does not work
Taking him to his room makes his rage increase and he gets violent. I am scared he is going to hurt himself or destroy my house
Spankings rarely got his attention
The list goes on and on...
We started Kohen with a behavior specialist after being kicked out of 3 daycare centers, and was in ISS (in school suspension) within his first week of Pre-K at the Elementary School. The whole green, yellow, red clip thing used in the classrooms now was a total failure. He ripped things off the teacher's wall and they would have to literally evacuate the other 16 children for their safety when he would go into a rage. He scratches the walls, shakes his fists, forgets to breath, etc. It's really upsetting and it takes all the will power I have to not just freak out on him. He was 4, almost 5 when we started with the professionals.
Along with our Pedi and a Child Psychologist, our Behavior Specialists has given us some great tools and creative ways to more keep him out of trouble than what to do when he is in trouble and it has helped. His "rages" are much calmer and shorter and he can now calm himself down (most of the time). He is also on a VERY small does of an ADHD medication. I haven't figured out if this has worked or not.
I totally understand your frustrations and would suggest some sort of professional help not just for him but for you as well if it continues. Things have been so much better and my anxiety about him starting Kinder in August is getting better.
I did the same as Harmony and others and put her in her room where she needed to stay till she could calm down or take her elsewhere that she wouldn't make a COMPLETE nuisance out of herself. Occasionally this was met with things being thrown at the closed bedroom door. In those cases, I calmly went into the room, picked up whatever had been thrown and walked out without saying a single thing to her. She knew she woldn't be seeing that item for AT LEAST a week. It may take up to 5 toys being confiscated but she finally got the point. I found that for the most part staying calm and ignoring her when a tantrum was thrown at home was the best way to deal with them. She HATED that she couldn't get a rise out of me and get me to give in. If I did engage her and yell, it was met with more horrible behavior so it didn't solve a thing.
The funniest thing is when they are standing there screaming and crying and jumping up and down saying "I'll be good. I'll be good." Um, point is, you aren't and that is WHY you are in trouble to begin with.
Now, we occasionally have screaming matches because hello, she is a preteen and knows EVERYTHING! But we have noticed that it usually follows our cycles so we have had to just take an extra deep breath and try to just calmly relate to each other. Now turning off the cell phone and taking the computer are the biggest threats so she rarely gives me any problems. I think she has learned that it can be a lot of fun but not if she doesn't follow the rules.
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Yep! They totally feed on it like they are draining your life source.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you. My Blog
We have been doing with Gabriel for a few months. Really is seems we just moved out of it with Joshua and are moving into it with Gabriel. It's always fun when the Pre-school director makes note about how strong willed your kids are.
Time Outs and Consistency. If Joe acts up, he goes to the corner, no matter where we are. If Joe acts up now, he usually puts himself in the corner. Oh, and prizes and treats for GOOD behavior.
And Almond....I would never wish an "almost 3 yr old" on anyone. The mood swings, temper tantrums and outright defiance were mind-boggling and absolutely infuriating. You are definitely not alone!!!!!!
Isolate and ignore work best for us. Luca does bad things to try to get our attention. Not responding to it works best. Once he realizes that we aren't going to react he stops. He has been running to our room and locking the door when we are scolding him so we chase him. If we run and tell him to open the door he is totally defiant. However, it we just walk away he comes out... Crazy!
Time out in her room works great for Lila. However, she really isn't "that" defiant.... Yet...
100%... and i wouldn't wish the hard part of the preschool years on anyone either!
we didn't yell, mostly used isolation from the rest of the family as punishment. negative consequences were always having something taken away, be it an item or a privilege. connor could throw a fit like nobody's business (and go from angel to demonic-screaming-collapsed-on-floor-fit in the blink of an eye), but being in his room away from everyone made him calm down to where he could join us again. sometimes he would just go in there and fall asleep, but usually there was a lot of screaming, maybe some throwing of stuff, and then eventually the calm settled in. we were extremely lucky in that he was not a hitter.
and as the previous poster mentioned, consistency and following through were key.
knock on wood, the tween/early teens are going well. God-willin' and the creek don't rise, I hope to make it out of this alive ; ) claire is so calm, so easy. i hope to the high heavens connor is the same. so far, so good.
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Sam was always a very difficult child. Headstrong and emotional. We started seeing a child psychologist when he was 3, and then we got a new one when we moved here. As much help as she's been to Sam, I honestly think she has helped DH and I more, teaching us how to meet his needs better. Like you, no kind of discipline ever really seems to work on Sam. When he's "in the zone," nothing will get through to him, even taking away computer or iPod, which is his favorite thing ever. He's even missed birthday parties and trips to the zoo and such, because using those as a consequence won't phase him, regardless of how consistent I am with him.
When he was younger and he'd have a tantrum, we'd isolate him like others mentioned to work out his anger, but he'd just get more and more worked up until we had to go in and physically restrain him until he calmed down, which would usually take 30 minutes or more.
Honestly, for the most part, no punishment of any kind has ever consistently worked on Sam to this day, and he is 6. I am still at a loss when trying to stop a situation. However, what I HAVE learned over time is how to prevent things from happening in the first place, so I don't have to get to the point of having to regulate/punish. It wasn't easy, and I'm still learning and getting the hang of it. But working with the doctor, we were able to pinpoint exactly what kinds of things cause him to lose control over himself. And talking with Sam, he's told us that he KNOWS when he's out of control, but doesn't know how to stop himself. So it is nothing he's doing on purpose or to get a rise out of us (most of the time).
Of course the preventative measures will be different for every kid, but with our particular situation we've learned to a) not let him get hungry (this was actually a huge one), and b) not let him have too much unstructured/alone time. This includes watching TV, playing on the computer, or even playing in his room. He thrives on interacting with DH and me, and when he doesn't get enough of it is when we start to have issues with him. We can do everything else right, but if he's not getting enough of our undivided attention, we start to have struggles. And it's hard because "enough" attention for Sam is a LOT more than a typical kid. Summer has been exhausting! lol
It's been so nice reading these responses.
Like some of the pp said, isolating O to his room during a tantrum does not work. He just gets further out of control and violent to the point of potentially hurting himself. He is unable to calm himself down alone. Time outs work if the situation hasn't escalated too much. If it has, then nothing will get through to him and I have to let it go.
He never has extreme tantrums at daycare so, as hard as it is to admit, it's clearly something DH and I are doing wrong. We've worked really hard over the past year at tantrum prevention and discovered what caused the vast majority of them.
The biggest one is hunger. He didn't have problems at daycare because they follow a very structured eating schedule. He's never allowed to get too hungry. So we strive to replicate that at home. It's made a world of difference.
The other big cause is asthma and that one we're still working on.
He still has his moments but they have decreased a whole lot since we started focusing on the cause rather than our reaction to them.
j+k+m+e | running with needles
DD definitely has her moments, though I'm grateful there not as many as there used to be.
One thing that has worked for us for a while is to get her to talk. It only works if she's just starting to get wound up, but if I can get her to take a breath and talk to me, there's almost always something that can be done (I'm telling her to put the markers away and getting mad she's not doing it and she's starting to scream nonsense, turns out she can't get one of the lids on, that sort of thing). A lot of times it happens because we're not listening to her and trying to rush to do something (because we are always rushing/late).
If she does get into a full tantrum, she goes to her room. It's not punishment, I'm trying to make it something that comforts her. Not sure that is working though. I did teach her to scream into her pillow though which she thought was funny.
I absolutely agree that if she gets a rise out of me it's 10x worse. Even if she's getting timeout or going to her room, if I do it calmly and with few words, it is so much better. When I yell it just escalates it. And knowing that, you'd think I'd stop yelling, but I haven't.
I haven't gotten to that age quite yet, but I have heard hunger and thirst are 2 big triggers (apparently thirst has been known as a big factor that leads to biting). Also, see if you can find a pattern for preventative measures. Obviously, in some instances, you can't determine what questions he will ask, so you can't really prevent them, then, though. I think you are doing fine with at least addressing the issue, then telling him why you can't do that right now. Then there is some reasoning instead of just the "No". Or I have heard giving a time heads up works for some. "We are going potty in 5 minutes, ok?" That way, he has time to wind up any play he is doing to do the potty break in his brain, instead of abruptly leaving the playtime. Or, I have also heard to give choices in time - "Do you want to leave for the store in 3 minutes or 5 minutes?" That way they don't have a choice to say no - but feel like they are in control. But make sure to follow through and take him when you say that - otherwise, it could be a battle later.
Good luck!
Rena is also a very stubborn, strong-willed child. She doesn't have too many tantrums now, but she's very particular about what she wants and freaks out if she doesn't get it. We've also found that choices work well. If she throws a fit about not wanting to wear shoes to leave the house, I pick out two pairs of shoes and ask her which one she wants to wear. This usually works pretty well.
Timeouts didn't really work for us, she thought it was a joke and would put herself in timeout for fun! We used to put a toy in timeout on the fireplace but she would just find something else to play with. If she's really acting up I send her to our bedroom for a few minutes until she calms down (her bedroom has too many distractions and it's upstairs so it's not very convenient).
Like Nanner's son, Rena is very demanding for our attention and tends to act up if we're busy and can't play with her. It's hard on me to find a good balance between giving her time and getting stuff done around the house. Oh and hunger is a big thing for us too. She never tells us when she's hungry so I didn't even realize that was an issue. But when she gets really hungry she freaks out and starts acting crazy and then is fine after she eats.
I don't think it's necessarily something you're doing wrong, though I know how easy it is to blame yourself. I remember reading an article about kids in daycare and why they cry at pick-up time and why they act out for mom and dad but not at school; the article talked about how kids instinctively "save" their scary emotions and only let them out with the people they feel safest with--- mom and dad, usually mom. I'll see if I can find the article, though I read it a long time ago and can't remember where....
I haven't read the other posts - this is us to a T.
In fact when M tries to have a tantrum and bang things around (when she is in time out in her room) I go in and explain that anything she throws will be put in time out and may even get thrown away. When she throws something I get a garbage bag and put the item in it. I explain it is in time out and if she stops she can have it back but if she doesn't stop, it's going in the trash or to another kid who will take care of it (depending on the toy).
She stops throwing then.
- Paula Deen to 104.1 KRBE's Producer Eric 9/17/2011
Lurker here, but wanted to share a book that I recently bought that has helped us some. I think the author makes it seem simpler than it really is but we have picked up a few good tips from the book and it also got high reviews on amazon. Good luck, I know how tough it is and it makes it even harder adding another child!
http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0761521364