Des Moines Nesties
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
how about a discussion?
We haven't had a healthy discussion for a while now. Think we can handle it? Use tact please, because as we've seen, being abrupt can be taken wrong. We're all friends and different things work for different people.
Feel free to throw out another topic as well. The board has been slow and I need an opportunity to use my brain. 
Topic 1: I thought spanking/swatting was a lost form of discipline. However, lately I'm seeing that it's not. Thoughts?
Topic 2: How do you feel about the up and coming trend of child free restaurants, movie screenings, travel, etc?
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
Re: how about a discussion?
I always said that if needed I would spank because I was growing up and I think I turned out ok. That being said, I can't bring myself to do it. There have been times that I would think it would get Jackson's attention, but I just can't...
I don't judge those that do, as I said, I never saw a problem with it before; however there is a time and place for it. I do not think a public place is appropriate and I don't think you should spank all the time. If spanking is being used as dicipline I beleive it needs to be explained to the child why. I think that is why I have found time out much more effective. I can walk him to our time out area and explain why he is going to spend some time thinking about whatever he may have done.
1. I'm not morally opposed to spanking. My parents used it sparingly and effectively with me. I just don't think we'll do it b/c I don't think I'll do it "right." (out of love instead of anger).
2. I haven't seen much at least locally w/ child free. I guess it is fine w/ me, we just won't go much if ever since we are rarely child free.
I think it might be nice for the rare times we do get a night out to not have it spoiled by a crying kid (not that it really bothers me anyway, crying kids are only a nuisance to me if you are the one responsible for them).
1. I think spanking can be very useful for some parents in the right situation. It should never be done out of anger and I personally will only use it as a last resort. I have spanked Sophia once and it was because she kept reaching for the hot oven and wouldn't listen when I told her no. Once was enough for her, but I fully believe that it is more useful for some kids.
2. I am for some places being kid free all the time and would be okay with certain "kid friendly" hours as well. I love kids and rarely am bothered by a crying kiddo, but there are certainly times and places where it is inappropriate. I also can't stand when parents let their kid carry on and on even when it is at a kid-friendly location. I know it can be hard to just pick up and leave when you have more than one kiddo, but if one can't behave then unfortunately that's what I feel should be done.
1. I believe there can be a "right" way to do it, though trying to find the right way is to me not worth the potential to get it wrong in the process. I hate it when people spank in public, especially because when I never see an attempt on the parent's part to reason with the child or offer other form of discipline first. Yes, we've stood in the corner (or as close to it as possible) in public a few times. It looks silly, but you don't end up with half a store staring at you.
2. I doesn't bother me. If my kid isn't welcome in a restaurant, I probably just won't go there. I didn't realize it was happening much, mostly because we pick restaurants based on the quality of the kids' menu, so it wasn't really on my radar. The only instance I've heard about is that restaurant in NC that isn't allowing under age 6, which I find a bit arbitrary. My 2 year old behaves better in restaurants than a lot of 8 year olds I see. Why not just make it 14, high school age?
Well I don't have kids so my perspective might be different
1- Hypothetically, we will probably spank. I was not spanked (but my sister was) and DH was spanked. I really think it depends on the child what will actually work. I was a great kid because I was too damn shy to do anything wrong, lol. However, I don't know if I will actually be able to do it when the time comes, you know? I do think it needs to be controlled and not in anger
2- I don't care so much about restaurants, but I would love a 21 and over movie theater, both for the lack of kids and the ability to have an adult drink
I've seen so many kids at movies lately that are completely not appropriate for them to be at. This is a pet peeve of mine. Otherwise, as long as your kid isn't screaming the whole time or kicking the back of my chair (but this goes for adults too, seriously, why do people do this or think its okay, especially adults?), I don't really mind or notice.
IVF w/ICSI - transferred 2; froze 3
Beta #1 150 Beta #2 320 - 7/16 124 bpm (6w5d) EDD 3/6/13
Our team green baby was a girl! Emma Lynn born 2/23/13
my read shelf:
Spanking definitely corrected my bad behavior when I was little, so I'm not against it in theory. I remember being spanked just twice and, frankly, I deserved it. My dad did it in a way that I knew it was coming. I'm okay with that. Like if all other behavior modifications attempts fail, spanking is an okay last resort. It doesn't work for me because 1) when I'm tempted to spank (or swat, anything physical), it's very reactive and not done strategically. I'm essentially losing my cool. I'm against spanking in this manner because it shows lack of control. and 2) I could never hit my kids when they knew it was coming, like my dad did. No way. Luckily both kids respond pretty well to time out, redirection, and other less forceful means of discipline.
I'm fine with kid-free things. I totally respect the wishes of people who want an outing without kids around.
1- I believe there is a HUGE differnce between spanking and beating. My parents used it on us, but only as a last resort, H's parents were the same way. We had very close backgrounds growing up. I know I will hate the thought of it, but at the same time, we're only planning on one child, I don't want to raise a spoiled evil child, that stands in the asile of the store and just screams until they get their way. I've also seen my sister attempt to do it to my nephew, he just laughs at her. I don't think a child should fear their parents, and for us, it would take a lot to spank, Mrs.Reem, is this coming from that one soccer game/practice of K's?
2- I HATE when people bring their child to an adult movie and you miss 89% of the movie because the child is A-talking/crying B-screaming at loud parts and what not. Some times I'd like a quite restaurant w/o the fear of someone else's child havnig a melt down, I know I/we feel like crap when El does! OY! But if you go to a FAMILY style restaurant, and expect there to be NO cildren then that's your own fault
I think there are some pretty effective forms of discipline you can use other than spanking, but people have to do what works for them. I think a lot of times it is done out of anger and that is so sad to me. My own mother got pretty excited at times and she usually took it out verbally...and when words are said you can't take them back so I am more aware of trying not to say or really do anything when I am angry either with my children or husband.
I am all for child free places. I would love to go somewhere like that...like a tropical island! We took my MIL out to Bonefish Grill for mother's day and Michael was being *so* good, but the people next to us kept giving us bad looks and later they moved across the restaurant. I felt really bad but then again I think any kids in general just make some people nervous.
Topic 1:
I too thought spanking was on its way out, at least in public. We do spank C. We do it sparingly after many warnings have been given or if there has been a serious breach of safety or harmful action. Then after he calms down (usually less than a minute later) we have him sit on our lap and we discuss what happened and why he was spanked and we talk about not doing it again, etc. Then we hug. It's been a pretty effective strategy in our house for the handful of times we've used it. We haven't had to spank in public yet and I'm not sure how I would handle that. Usually I have a quiet talk with C and if he's still acting up, we leave.
Topic 2:
I didn't realize this was an up and coming trend. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. We've been to the child free resorts on vacation and I'm a huge fan. If I want to travel with my kids, I stay somewhere else. If I want a little quality time away with just DH, we opt for a kids free experience. If the whole point of vacation was to get some time away from the kids and enjoy each other's company, then I don't want to be interrupted by other people's children. I could also appreciate a better movie theater system for children. If we want to go to a movie, we get a sitter. Otherwise, the movie should to be completely age appropriate for your child and their temperment. I would expect to see 2 & 3 year olds at Cars 2, I don't expect to see them at Bridesmaids or other adult oriented films. There is also nothing more annoying to me than spending $25 for 2 movie tickets just to sit next to a bunch of 15 year olds in a rated R movie who text and talk through the entire thing. That must mean I'm getting old. :-) No thoughts on the restaurants, it can be hard to take kids out to eat but I think most parents handle it very well.
1 - I have mixed feelings about this - but I feel pretty strongly that there will be no spanking in our house. Only because I struggle with trying to justify to a toddler or small child that it's not ok to use agressive behavior (hit) towards others, but yet it's ok for thier parents to use this behavior on them.
2 - I'm all for it. I love my kids - but I also love a nice quiet dinner without them.
Topic 1: I thought spanking/swatting was a lost form of discipline. However, lately I'm seeing that it's not. Thoughts?
I can climb up on a moral high horse with this topic. I can throw out all of data, studies, and academic insights garnered from my education in child development and psychology. But I find that even with over-whelming amounts of data to support the inappropriateness of physical punishment - it rarely matters. Parents have to do and will do what they feel is best for THEM and THEIR family. Like everything else in parenting - we all do what we feel works for us. Many will say that being spanked as a child didn't hurt them - they are perfectly adjusted adults. Maybe. Maybe not. We all have a level of neurosis.
I wouldn't hit an adult if I felt that their behavior or attitude were inappropriate therefore I wouldn't hit a defenseless child whose brain is still developing - part of their development is doing things that our developed brains find inappropriate and they are learning how to handle anger, disappointment, and inappropriate behaviors from YOU. It shouldn't be amazing when toddlers start hitting each other when they don't get their way.
Some say that they are able to spank with a level head - not out of anger. It is not possible to spank a child with a clear and level head - for if one had a clear and level head they probably wouldn't be resorting to physical violence as a form of discipline. Studies show the increased heart rate and blood pressure in even parents who claim to be rational and calm when spanking their child.
I have yet to have a situation occur with my two year old in which physical violence would have been the better parenting response. I might also add that he is highly well behaved and responds well to the tone of my voice.
And, even though our son was adopted at birth via private adoption we were required to legally affirm that we would not use physical violence as a form of punishment or discipline. We plan to stick by that vow.
Having said all of this - again I say, I realize that parents must do as they feel they must do within their own family. While I do judge - it really is more of a reinforcement to me about my own parenting beliefs and style. I have options and I like that I have options outside of hitting.
Topic 2: How do you feel about the up and coming trend of child free restaurants, movie screenings, travel, etc?
While child-free restaurants may be a new trend, I don't find it to be a new trend with movie going and travel.
Hotels and resorts for decades have offered vacationing experiences for adults (and I believe they generally classify it as 13 and up). I have never found it acceptable for parents to bring babies or children to movies that are not intended for children.
I realize that not all parents have the resources to hire a babysitter or have family available to sit for them. But for those of us who either saved for such an occasion or do have such means - it is disrespectful. The whole point of date night is so that one doesn't have to listen to crying children, yelling parents, or loud toddlers (btw - I acknowledge all of which are normal behaviors for the children - children not being at fault).
As the saying goes - there is a time and place for everything. I think too often parents take on an entitled feeling. I believed this before becoming a parent and I believe it still today. We take the extra two seconds to think about whether this situation would be appropriate for our child and for the other guests.
Obviously, family friendly restaurants should not be included and I guess the definition of that moves a bit depending on socio-economic levels. For example: I consider applebees to be a family friendly restaurant but for someone else that might be the height of dining out on a date night. I consider Flemimings to a date night restaurant in which for spending $150+ on a meal I should be able to have adult conversation without listening to a crying baby. But maybe for that couple Flemmings is a family friendly restaurant.
Unfortunately common sense is not common.
DH and I come from very different backgrounds. I was never spanked and he was hit often out of anger. We don't use spanking, but I don't judge others who do use it the right way. I think it can work for some children when used correctly, but it's just not for me. I think it's difficult to teach a child not to hit others if they are disciplined physically in any way. I also feel like past the age of 5 or so, it's pretty ineffective and then parents struggle with something to fall back on.
I'm all for kid-free things. I can understand why others would want that.
Because I'm only at the early toddler stage of parenting so far, spanking/swatting just isn't an option for me (or DH). Z is at an age where she is still learning what's appropriate behavior -- mostly by watching DH & I, others at daycare, and our families -- so it's important to me that she understand that striking out physically is not an acceptable way of treating another person. Ideally (ha ha), we'll model appropriate behaviors, ways of coping in various situations, etc. and raise kids who rarely act out in ways that even present the scenario in which spanking seems necessary...but I'm also not so naive to believe that's how it works. I don't remember being spanked and don't remember seeing my parents spank my siblings, so either it happened very infrequently & wasn't a huge issue, or it didn't happen at all, I guess... Interesting that I'm not sure!
I'm a fan of child-free options. I think it's like a lot of other strategic decisions that businesses make... The consumers/market will let them know if a child-free night at a restaurant or adults-only movie showing is popular. Having that option doesn't mean that other kid-friendly options wouldn't still be available... It just opens up alternatives, I think.
Topic 1- While I do not consider myself anti-spanking, we personally don't spank Ella, more because I think it would be more done out of anger and that is not an appropriate way to spank IMO. I was not spanked as a child but I can see how it could be effective when used appropriately and sparingly, only in the case of serious discipline/safety issues (i.e. repeatedly running into the street). It does sadden me though to see parents who use spanking/swatting as an everyday discipline method. I'm talking kids you see getting spanked at Target for standing up in the cart or something like that. How effective is that going to be for the poor child?
Topic 2- I am all for child free restaurants, movies, etc. I enjoy going to dinner for special date nights to get away from the "kid talk" and enjoy the adult time
I also think it is a good alternative for both those that want to bring their kids to dinner but not upset/annoy others (don't go to a kid free place) or for those that want to go to dinner and not be bothered by kids.
(writing this quickly while I have a sec!)
1.) Jeff and I will never spank but I'm not opposed to others doing it to their kids (in the right time,place, reason). I think everyone has different toddlers and different parenting styles which is completely fine with me, that makes everyone different! However I could never bring myself to spank my child, I hope she responds well to other forms of discipline like time out, redirection, etc.
2.) LOVE the idea of no teenager movie times! Genius! I also think it'd be fun to go to a kid-free dinner but I can honestly say that children have never bothered me during dinners or outings. If another kid misbehaves I'm able to ignore it pretty well. However-the way parents respond to kids and discipline sometimes bothers me more than what the child was doing. But I'm sure we've all seen situations like that.
1.Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."
DH and I were both spanked as children, DH more than myself (probably because I behaved better
)
We do spank L if he is blatantly disrespectful (eg: we sit him in TO and he repeatedly gets up) or if he does not obey us and can cause harm to baby J.
We do not spank in public or in front of others. DH's family is extremely pro spanking and some will discipline their children in the room with others, I am not comfortable with that, nor do I think it is beneficial to the child. That being said, we do have, imo, the most well behaved and polite nieces and nephews I've ever encountered and I believe that part of their parenting method is responsible for that.
Once a spanking given DS is held and then it is explained to him why he received the punishment. It bothers me that others are so anti spanking to the point that parents are turned into authorities for disciplining their children. I think that parents should be allowed to parent without the fear of being punished for punishing bad behavior (I'm citing the example of the Corpus Cristi mother who spanked her daughter, leaving only a red behind, and is serving x-amount of years of probation because the judge felt that spanking was an out-dated form of discipline).
I do not like to spank DS, but I am adamant that I do not want to deal with an unruly 5 year old.
Also, I believe there is a HUGE difference between spanking and abuse.
2. While I'm sad because I want everyone to think my children are amazing, I can totally relate to wanting a child-free environment. I was not in love with every one's children before I had my own.
1. Personally, I feel like spanking is lazy parenting when used as the first course of action. I know some don't agree. There are so many other ways to discipline that are more effective (there are plenty of studies) and I personally feel like spanking really deteriorates the relationship and trust between child and parent. Because I could not spank out of love, because I think it's hypocritical to hit and then teach the child not to, because a it's not okay to hit in the real world, we don't spank. Teachers cannot spank so I'd like to set a discipline method that carries through to older years.
DH came from a family that spanked and thought it was okay because his parents did. I asked him if we should also not put our children in car seats because his parents didn't. He said that if we don't spank then our children will be naughtier. WHAT? In my experience, the children who are spanked as a first line of discipline are more out of control because they're not learning anything and they don't respect their parents. They just fear them. They're not having two way conversations and learning what they should be doing instead. I want my kid to come to me when she needs to talk. I don't want her to be afraid of me. She needs to be used to constructive conversations and controlling emotions. Hitting isn't controlling an emotion in my opinion.
i have a friend that was dumbfounded when I set K in timeout and talked with her. That would never work with my kids, I have to yell and spank. I asked her if she'd ever tried timeout with discussion. No she just yells. She said not spanking causes naughty kids and that she wasn't going to *** foot around saying "Oh honeybun please don't do that darling." I'm not light or passive with my parenting like that and I think it might be a common misconception. I am direct, I lower my voice, and I am clear with my message. My children know when they're in trouble and they sit on their timeout pad when asked. Heck Katen will turn it on and sit on it herself. (It has a timer and alarm) So I have yet to see that not spanking my kids has caused them to be out of control. I simply try to follow through with what I say the consequence is, and talk, talk, talk with my kids. That's what works for us.
Topic 2: I am so all for adult only restaurants, moving showings, and travel destinations. Grocery stores may be taking it a bit far, but I'd just shop somewhere else, hoping that it never caught on at my beloved Target. lol!
"We haven't had a healthy discussion for a while now. Think we can handle it? Use tact please, because as we've seen, being abrupt can be taken wrong. We're all friends and different things work for different people. "
later...
"Personally, I feel like spanking is lazy parenting..."
(I couldn't use two quotes)
Ditto! The teenagers bother me more than the younger kids! I am so old, lol
IVF w/ICSI - transferred 2; froze 3
Beta #1 150 Beta #2 320 - 7/16 124 bpm (6w5d) EDD 3/6/13
Our team green baby was a girl! Emma Lynn born 2/23/13
my read shelf:
1. It's not lost. We won't be doing it, although both DH and were spanked. I just don't think it can be done in love and not anger. Plus, it goes against the whole Don't hit thing, which is big at our house right now. I think a time out, talk, or removal of a privilege will work better.
2. I can see how it will be a good niche market. There are many times I'd like to be out and not see a kid. There have always been places like Sandals that were kid free, and I'd like to see more places enforce movie ratings to keep ages appropriate. Mostly, parents aren't parenting, and people aren't being tolerant, and common sense isn't being used. Persons who can't be quiet, patient, and polite don't belong at fine dining restaurants, out when they haven't napped, etc. (Doesn't matter your age!) So I wouldn't expect to see toddlers at 801 Grand, while I expect to see them at Applebee's. I believe you have to expose kids to places to have them act appropriately there, but only after you've explained the rules at home, and can follow through on the rules. If your children are acting up, even at Applebee's or Chuck E Cheese, you have to be prepared to leave (with our without your food!).
even though no kids, my non-controversial two cents:
1. i don't think that we will spank our kids. i agree with pp that i don't know i could do it out of love and not anger. i also agree that it can be lazy parenting.
2. yes, all for kid free places!
now for my controversial two cents:
i understand that we don't want to start slinging insults, but i don't think expressing an opinion is considered tactless. if we are going to have a "discussion" then people should feel free to express their opinion without others feeling the need to a) tell others how to respond and b) calling others out because they expressed an opinion.
i know i don't post a lot on this board, especially with this type of discussion bc it seems like if there is a strong discussion or difference of opinion that is considered being mean or tactless. if everyone is going to agree and the posts are all rainbows and unicorns, are we really sharing the true feelings and having a real discussion? or just giving a snippet of our true opinions/feelings and walking on eggshells in hopes of not offending?
sorry, not trying to be a B, but it just seems silly to me to have a "discussion" but then put rules around it and get offended when someone expresses an honest and non sugar coated opinion. as long as we aren't personally attacking someone, we should feel like we can participate in a discussion freely/openly without others grouping together and saying someone is being mean.