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dulcemariamar1
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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What do you think about this?
I went on a cruise this summer and I was really surprised to see that were many children on the ship who had serious weight problems. I am not talking about a few extra kilos. Granted, we were on vacation but I was shocked to see how much food they piled on their plates.
When a child is clearly obese, what do you think should happen? Do you think CPS or the school should intervene to get the help the child needs? Or do you think this is a private issue and that the parents have the right to feed their kids whatever they want.
Re: What do you think about this?
I don't know that I think anything should happen. In a perfect world, parents would know something about being healthy and try to pass that on to their children. Schools can try to teach healthy eating and exercise habits, but the parental influence will always outweigh the school's influence, so it can only get you so far. I don't think this is something that any governmental or public entity should get involved in except for general health campaigns. We have too many other things to worry about and that seems like a waste and too intrusive.
However, I have no problem with private companies making life harder/more expensive for seriously obese people. In terms of health insurance costing more, hell, what if a restaurant refused to serve someone who was 200 + pounds overweight fattening food, the way a bar can cut off a patron who is obviously and dangerously drunk? It would probably just piss people off and/or embarrass them more than anything, but I don't see a problem with that. Of course, restaurants want to make money, so they won't do this, but still... a dunkin donuts refusing to sell donuts to a really obese child isn't the worst idea the world.
It's a boy! -- EDD 11.17.11
Back in the USA...for now...
But we shouldnt think that thin=healthy. I doubt that anyone can just look at a person and be able to guess their BMI.
I dont know about the rest of you but I gain a lot weight when I am back in the States for any extended period of time. I dont go crazy and eat a lot of junk food. Does anyone else experience this? Maybe, I am just not aware at how much processed food there is in the US.
I am just surprised that people seem not to care a lot about the weight problem many countries are facing. I dont think we should humiliate people about it but I dont think we should view it as ideal. People seem to throw around the word curvy a lot.
This is really really sad Marista. I don't understand why they wouldn't do their jobs to protect a child. It must be hard to have faith in a system that you've seen fail children over and over again.
I really don't think there is anything one can do to get involved. I know it isn't the school's responsibility, but if they see a morbidly obese student at risk for health problems I feel they could be a sort of last resort to at least make sure their lives are not in danger.
My Israel Blog!
Marista makes a bunch of good points.
I don't know if it's still the case but when I was both at primary & secondary school, you had a medical check with school once a year which included measuring your height & weight.
Your parents were then sent a report including all the results/recommendations. This is when they spotted I could maybe do with glasses... (I could tell but didn't say anything as I already had braces & thought that was plenty enough for me, tyvm.)
I think this level of involvement is helpful, especially for parents who might not realize what their kids eat or aren't very well aware of what portion sizes should be, etc.
It also allows for the school or the medical service people to follow up on it if no changes are noticed & if necessary contact the parents or the social services.
I'm not saying thin = healthy. You can't tell if someone is healthy if they are thin. However, really obese definitely = unhealthy. If you want to draw a line of how and to whom to peddle bad food, that is the only thing of which you can be certain.
Again, I'm responding to your first post which said more than a few kilos overweight and actually obese. At the end of the day, I don't think any government or public entity should get involved, so it's left to private companies. Of course, they won't do this to their customers, but wouldn't it be nice if some took a stand and said, "I'm sorry, I can see that you are unhealthy and I won't sell you something, that while it may be a treat for others, for you is almost certainly not, and is a part of a larger problem."
Why is it okay to treat obese people in this way? There is no single reason for obesity. It is not only a problem for people who 'don't eat well' or 'lack willpower.' It is also a side effect of some diseases (that are not due to obesity) and even to some medication.
In the same way that you cannot know when looking at someone whether they have a healthy BMI or not, you cannot tell the cause of someone's obesity by looking at them. You have no idea whether that person is treating themselves after months of losing weight. You have no idea whether that person actually works out an hour a day and generally eats well, but has a genetic pre-disposition to obesity, or a slow metabolism.
I'm not saying that no one who is obese is responsible for that condition, but that there is a tendency to lump all obese people into one big 'fat camp' when that is overly simplistic.
It is also not okay to treat someone the way you described, Jetur, just because they are fat. Yes, there is a legal right to do so--as a private institution--but wow, I'm shocked that you think this is okay.
Jetur:
I guess I would only care when the problem affects other people. I remember once, I was on a flight and I had to sit next to a really tall guy. I understand that there is like zero space on a plane but he got really mad when I told him he couldnt invade my space. It was an international flight, and I wasnt going to put up with one of his legs in my space for over 8 hours. I guess this also apply for people who cant fit in their seats because of their weight. I am not against having them buy two tickets. But I would hope that the people at these companies would have special training to deal with this sensitive issue.
See, I guess I'm taking it to an extreme. People everywhere have a lot of health problems. Many, if not most of these, we have no control over. But for many, if not most, overweight people, it is something they have control over (or had control over at some point until it became too out of control). This isn't to say that some people don't have medical issues that are the cause of their problem. But general policy is meant for the averages.
For the record, I'd be just as OK with a gym telling someone who looks INCREDIBLY, PAINFULLY thin that they don't want to allow them to be a member of their gym. Or that they will keep an eye on how much that person exercises. And while yes, it's possible they are trying to recover from cancer, it is also possible they are anorexic and the gym doesn't want to assist that person in potentially hurting themselves more.
And Dulce, I see your point. It seems more fair that if someone is huge and eating into your seat space, they should pay for that extra space they need, even if it's embarrassing, or they just lost 100 lbs or whatever. You don't really care about the circumstances, you care about it's effect on you. Fair enough. But doesn't society pay the price of an increasingly obese population every day in lost productivity and increasing health care costs?
If you put these two thoughts together I still think that while I don't know that I would do it, I wouldn't be against a donut shop not serving, or charging more to certain customers. I know this sounds super harsh, but I think I'd rather have this then people calling CPS on me and trying to take my kids away for neglect. That seems like a way more harmful and extreme idea to me, yet I've seen it brought up a few times before.
FTR, I'm talking about someone that is like 500 pounds. A few extra pounds can be due to a lot of circumstances, but something that bad is almost certainly going to be compounded by bad choices.
I know I sound evil, but I'm generally a pragmatist. If there was some alternate universe where I could be guaranteed a country like Sweden (as it currently is) for all eternity, I'd be pretty happy to give up the right to vote.
ETA: I talked with FH and like his suggestion. Prices for junk food and the like should be raised to the prices of healthy food. It's a shame that McDonalds and the like can give you a "whole" meal for 7 dollars when you can barely get a decent amount of produce for that amount. So of course the poor suffer the most. Equalize prices (think of it as a vice tax on junk food) and that way the choice is more meaningful. And hopefully this helps people get out of the junk food leading to being hungry more often and craving junk food cycle.
I'd be really interested to hear from those who work in education - what do they do in your countries?
FH had a case (boy) this year in his primary school. They had him take extra hours of PE and he got put on a special diet during lunch. I don't know what the parents' involvement was, if any. There's also a big push in Spanish primary schools for parents to send in healthy choices for midday snacks instead of the traditional pre-packaged commercial pastries. Childhood obesity, at least in the north, does not seem to be as wide-spread as it is back home.
I love coming back home. I feel skinny here! I feel huge Spain.
I am obese. I have not been obese my entire life. In fact before I DS I was healthy to slightly over weight, tI had DS, lost some weight, got PND and piled on the weight. I now have a very unhealthy BMI of 38. I am very aware of it. I know that I can do something about it, 3 out of 4 weeks of the month I do try and do something about it. I do have excuses, i.e. my vitamin D level is insufficent again so I have no energy and my bones hurt, so my doc has put me back on Calcuim and vit D tablets, yes the same ones that give give elderly women for osteoporosis. My thyroid is also border line. You are considered to have hypothyroidism if your levels are below 10. My level is 10 (I forget the measurement). That is not been treated, just monitored. My point here is that I do have excuses, but at the same time I know that I am just lazy and need to get my fat ass into gear and start working out and following the correct diet. A chocolate once in a while is great, a chocolate everyday gives you a fat ass.
I do think that a lot of the parents with the obese kids are aware of what they are doing wrong, but they give into the habits that they have already formed because it is easier to parent when you don't have a crying/whining child. They don't force their kids out in the parks to play because they are too busy trying live their lives and go to work to afford their kids, and they don't always have healthy foods in the house for the kids to eat because 9 times out 10 processed food is cheaper, easier and stretch further. I think that parents with obese kids should not necessarily have their kids taken away by CPS, but should have to go to cooking/healthy eating classes with their kids so that they can all learn.
Jetur,
I don't think that for adults, there is any reason why a donut shop would or would not serve fat people. Adults know what they are doing. And on top of that, it becomes a discrimination issue. If we were to stop serving black people or charge them double because of what they look like, I don't see it as being any different. I think there is an obligation for doctors to say something, especially pediatricians. I feel like school nurses and teachers (if they weren't already overburdened) should be able to speak with the parents about it. I also think charging more for health insurance makes sense, but a food business charging more to serve its clients makes no sense and is discriminatory. It is not the comapany's job to judge other people's health statuses. A skinny person can have the same sort of dietary related health issues that affect their health as a fat person
I agree. You can't know for sure each individual's case as to why they are overweight. There can be many causes for this. However the original question was regarding obese children. I do believe that parents are the number one fault for this. Young children do not choose or buy their own food. It is up to the parents to have healthy food in the house, to avoid buying large quantities of candy, cookies, cakes, etc. and to get their children accustomed to eating right, in correct proportions and to force them to eat their veggies and fruits. Also, it's up to the parents to get their kids involved in sports. If the parents don't have time to take them to the park or play outside with them, buy them a bike instead of a video game, sign them up to some sort of sport after school. Basically, IMO it all starts with the parents. If the parents are willing to make an effort to change their lifestyle, the kids will follow in the same path.
How can we get this to happen? Unfortunately, it is not something we, the government, private companies, or anyone can force these parents to do. DH has a cousin that is overweight. This cousin has a son that is only 5 years old. Doctors have been warning the parents for over 3 years!!! that their kid is extremely obese and in danger of having many medical problems if things don't change soon. And yet he just keeps getting bigger, and they keep giving the kid food to get him to stop crying etc. Everytime I see this child I feel so sad that I can't do anything. The parents just won't listen to anyone and it's extremely frustrating.
It's a boy! -- EDD 11.17.11
Back in the USA...for now...
I lay the blame on the parents. At some point a child can become so obese that the parents are guilty of neglect/abuse. I think that CPS or another agency should intervene. Parents are sent to therapy, training, and court for other forms of neglect and abuse. Why not child obesity?
I reckon they should get my mum to visit schools with obese children so she can call them a fatty-boomsticks and put them on a diet. Worked for me, aged 9.
Call me simple, but yeah, I think parents should be responsible. All McD's (or equivalent) all the time= problem. At the same time obsession w/ weight also can be problematic... let's face it, many kids don't magically grow in perfect proportion-- some might have a "fat"/heavy stage pre-growth spurt, others (e.g. my charming husband) spend a good decade looking like Ichabod Crane, not b/c he wasn't fed, but because he grew (heightwise) so much, so quickly (it literally took him til he was 30 to put on any weight and he ate absolute sh!t whenever he wanted in his teens and 20s).
Long way of saying-- yeah, if diet is to the EXTREME of abuse (diagnosed malnutrition), ok for CPS to step in. But for "poor" choices-- well, that's too 1984 for my blood. I'm sorry, but people, including parents, have a right to make mistakes (within reasonable parameters-- malnutrition being unreasonable).
Seriously though, I think all we can really do is educate people, let them make their own choices and hope for the best. Perhaps if obesity-related illness brought on by poor nutrition attracted a larger contribution to national health service then it might help persuade people. Though it would have to be proven - as many PPs have said, there are so many reasons why people are overweight and it's not always through poor diet. My DH's family have metabolism that moves at glacial speed. They are obese, I'd argue morbidly in one case. If you saw them in the street you might just think they eat junk food all day. Not the case. Knowing them has taught me not to judge someone who is overweight without knowing why.
What makes me really sad is seeing parents feed children junk food when they are too young to make their own choices - toddlers with full fat coke, that kind of thing. There was a documentary on it in the UK a while ago and showed the rising numbers of children with rotten teeth by the time they were 7. Poor things had their teeth ripped out and false ones put in. Very very sad.