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Nephew and religious beliefs
My sister and I have very different religious beliefs, I am an atheist and her and her husband are very strong/strict christians. I have attended her church before and they actually said that atheists can not EVER be good people, or have strong morals. They even compared us heathens to Jeffrey Dahmer, and said that anyone who doesn't fear God could easily end up just like him.
My sister has two boys, the older one is 3 now and attends this church as well. He says things like "Jesus loves you" to me fairly often or asks me to say a prayer to him and I don't usually make much of it. However last week they took him to some creation camp and when I had him over to play this weekend all he would talk about was how "evolution is bad!" or "evolution is a lie!". I tried to blow it off or change the subject but he just kept on saying it looking for a reaction. I'm not sure how to react, but I feel like this is just the beginning and that these things are going to keep coming up. I honestly have no idea how to react when he says these things. I don't agree with him, but I'm not going to start a fight with a little kid about evolution. I would love any advice on what to do when he says these things, since I'm worried that as he ages his opinions will get stronger and he will want real answers/conversations from me.
Re: Nephew and religious beliefs
Wow...that's sad.
But you know, at 3, nothing you say will make much of a difference. I mean, if you share your beliefs and he repeats them, he'll just wind up feeling confused.
Give it time and take it as it comes. At some point, he'll be lucky to have another view in his life.
(From the former Catholic schoolgirl and now agnostic who has devoted a whole lot of study and thought to her beliefs over the years.)
I realize he's not. He's just telling me the new fact he learned. He's waiting for me to say "you are RIGHT buddy good job!" or something. I'm sure he doesn't think there is another side to any of this. But I don't really want to tell him he's right and probably shouldn't say he's wrong.
At three, he really has no idea what he's saying. He's just acting like a parrot and repeating whatever he's told. If someone told him that cookies taste horrible often enough, he'd be running around and saying that as well. Don't take it personally.
If it were me, I would ignore the religious things he says, and if he wants praise then give it to him for something else ... "I like your outfit today" or "You had such good manners at lunch" or something like that. Or just change the subject entirely. If he wants praise or attention, give it to him for another accomplishment.
Hopefully, when he's old enough to think for himself, he'll realize that people can be good and moral without having to follow a specific religion. Or, if he's an adult and starts spewing this bigoted bullshiit at you, then by all means tell him to knock it off. Until then, just try to ignore it, and don't accept any invitations to their church or religious activities.
Thanks for the advice
I will relax
I guess I was just concerned that they are already teaching someone who is still in diapers about the evils of evolution (instead of like, potty training him or something), and I'm worried the next thing he comes up with will be "atheists are serial killers" or "gays are pure evil!". But until that point I guess there's no reason not to just ignore it.
Frankly, IMO it's really nonya (none of your business) what your sister is teaching their children; if it's endangering them or they're being abused, that's a whole other issue.
You two have differing views; no matter how much you agree or disagree, it is what it is; he'll be raised this way, and eventually come in to his own, and make his own logical decisions (right or wrong). If you had children, I'm sure you would teach them your beliefs (right or wrong); how would you feel if your sister butted in and tried to sway your kids in a different direction?
Just something to think about!
He'd probably do this while eating a cookie.
Absolutely true. My oldest is three and she's a little myna bird.
At bottom, though, you're hitting on an issue that's going to continue to affect your relationship with your nephew: he's being raised to believe things that are offensive to you. That isn't likely to change, so you're either going to have to find a way to cope with it or disengage from the relationship a bit to avoid being hurt when he directs this vitriol at you personally someday.
Ditto the others that say at three he really doesn't know what he is saying. My son (age 6!) told me the other day "the only way you can get into Yale is on the fencing team." (he does not know what Yale is or what college is). He heard Lisa say that on a recent episode of "The Simpsons." He also tells me what powers Moogers have (from PowerRangers).
Your nephew will grow into his own beliefs. If you and your sis grew up in the same household, then one of you didn't choose the beliefs of your upbringing. Your nephew might grow up ultra-Christian, or not; either way it's not your concern.
You're right - it's a shame that such a young child is already learning about hatred. But hopefully as he grows up, he'll see that you are a good person and that all the crap he's been being spoon-fed just isn't true. Keep encouraging him to think for himself.
I'm a weird New Yorker.
But I still find it shockingly odd that people don't understand evolution and endorse it as a bedrock foundation of science.
That's a tough position to be in. My SIL is quite a bit younger than me, and when she was 7 or 8 she started asking me religious questions that I had no clue how to answer. For example, one day when we were in the car she was trying to figure out where dinosaurs fit into the Noah's ark story. I told her that was a good question for her parents or her teacher. I figured as long as what she was saying wasn't offensive to me, I didn't need to concern myself with what she was being taught.
However, once her words started getting into "nonChristians are bad people" territory, I felt justified in speaking up. I would just gently say something like, "Well, I'm not a Christian, but you don't think I'm a bad person, do you?"
Does your sister know that you're an atheist?
he's copying what he's being exposed to. there's nothing you can do. he's 3. do you really believe that he REALLY understands what evolution is? or better yet=really what he's saying? of course not. LOL i'd ask your sister that as well.
i find it irritating when people push their religion on me as well.
I think real religious beliefs are formed when children are old enough to start really contemplating what their own beliefs are apart from what their parents/church taught them. As he gets older his opinions may change to questions and yes, he may want answers from you as someone who believes differently from his family, church friends, etc. I would just be honest about your beliefs without getting into specifics unless he asks. I'm not saying to tell him 'Yeah, Christians- they're total whack jobs and you're being lied to.' But you can be open about your own beliefs without trying to sway him. I don't see anything wrong with letting him know that there are different beliefs out there and what he believes is really up to him.
An American Girl's Travels
I totally agree with you.
And this kind of goes back to the thread about obsessive aunts a couple of days ago - unless you are his godparent (which I'm assuming you're not, given your different religious beliefs) you have NO obligation and really no business discussing religion with him at all, at any age.
Ignore what he's saying now - I promise you that at 3 he only has a tiny (if any) grasp of what he's saying. He's repeating what he's heard from other people. If someday he starts asking you direct questions about your beliefs, feel free to tell him that he'll need to talk to his parents about that. It's not your job as his aunt to expose him to other religious beliefs, and it's not your obligation to explain to him why you believe the way that you do.
When he gets much older, and if at that time he comes to you with a genuine curiosity, then by all means discuss your beliefs with him. But it will be YEARS before he's going to be ready for that; until then, just ignore him as he parrots the words and phrases that he's being exposed to by his parents, who do have the right to bring him up in their religion.
But why is this question ONLY addressed when it comes to religion? What if he's taught to put the napkin on the "wrong" side of the plate? What if he's taught to put the toilet paper under instead of over?
My point is, as long as a child is not being harmed (their own or another), it's NO ONE else's business how / what THEIR child is being unless one is asked.
I am all about listening to a wide variety of beliefs, and have many friends of many different views and leanings; I personally find it hypocrital that people get their panties all in a bunch about religion; IMO everyone is guilty of imposing their beliefs if they refuse to accept another's; it's a two-way street.
Just sayin'
I think there is a reading comprehension problem with your response!
She never said anything about not accepting his or her sisters religious beliefs, she only stated her beliefs were different. She asked how or if she should respond to his comments. She never said she wanted to teach him anything at all!!!
Please re-read the OP!
Um, because being told you're like Jeffrey Dahmer if you're not a Christian is not even remotely similar to setting the table incorrectly?
OP sat through an entire church service during which she was compared to a serial killer. I don't think she's the one who has shown intolerance for other people's beliefs here.
This. At this age you should easily be able to re-direct his attention to other things.
You think evolution is a lie, don't you?
First off, I'm fairly sure that your panties are the only ones affected by this conversation. As most others posters seemed to understand, I am not trying to raise their child or impose my beliefs on others. If I were planning on doing that I just would, I wouldn't be here looking for advice. I also don't understand how asking how to respond to a conversation I am having with someone is not my business?
The reason that I addressed religion was because it was the issue at hand. If my sister and I had identical religious beliefs, but in their household they believed that men should be the unquestioned lead of the household, certain races were superior, or any negative stereotype about an entire group of people I'd be here asking the same question. And you'd better believe that if he were being taught that all people who people the napkin on the "wrong" side of the plate had no morals or values, then that would be the question I was here asking about.
And does my sister know I'm an atheist? I couldn't honestly tell you for sure. She knows that I'm not a christian, and she knows my views on a lot of issues. I have told her in the past that I don't believe in God but she didn't really seem to accept that, like it was something I was saying to be controversial or something I'd grow out of when I was a bit older. However we have come to the point where we don't discuss or debate things regarding our religious beliefs. We were raised with what she refers to as christian values without being christian. We butted heads a lot when she converted as she would do things like physically try and drag me out of bed to come to church, or steal all of my cd's and replace them with christian ones. She has realized that she can't change me, and I don't try and change her, and I wouldn't say by any means that I'm not tolerant of other people's beliefs, or try and force mine on anyone. If she tells me, for example, that she just went to a fun event at her church, I say that that's great and I'm glad that she enjoyed herself there without getting into specifics.
Thanks for all the helpful responses. I feel a lot better having discussed and hearing other opinions about how to be gentle without interfering.
This makes me really sad for you. I know your nephew is only 3 now, but I can't imagine what type of relationship you'll have when he gets older. Hopefully, he will be able to form his own opinions on this stuff later in life. But I can imagine he'll be a bit brainwashed in his younger years.
I'm also an Atheist and it would make me extremely sad to know my sibling was raising my niece or nephew to believe "evolution doesn't exist" and "anyone who doesn't believe in the ghost in the sky will go straight to hell."
I'm baffled people actually believe these things.
I can see your concern for the future: you don't want to be put in a position of tacitly misleading him, by appearing to agree with whatever he's saying when you don't... but you also don't want to confuse him or contradict the religious teachings that are clearly important to your sister and her H.
Here's what I'd recommend: Keep it age appropriate. I've steered my kids through this in my own household. I'm a non-practicing Christian, DH is an atheist, ILs are hardcore Catholics. Here's what I've found to work:
Preschool years: Kids have a very concrete understanding of religion. They repeat what they hear, and they don't have a real understanding of anything yet. At this age, just smile and nod.
Early school age years: Kids enter school and become more aware of diversity. They still have a pretty concrete understanding of religion, and still probably parrot what they hear. However, they can understand that certain topics (like religion) are private. At this age, you can go from the "let's keep our religious feelings private" angle to avoid a more difficult conversation.
Later elementary/middle school: Kids come to understand that people can choose whether or not to believe. At this age, if it's still an issue, you can talk about how not everyone thinks the same as he and his parents do. You can say stuff like "it's a choice everyone has to make." You can let him believe that YOU don't think that the only good people in the world are the ones who believe exactly what his church preaches.