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In-Law Vent, Again
I'm incredibly angry with my FIL (and my DH). Some background, my DH and I have completely different families. His parents immigrated here from South Asia. He grew up in a very patriarchal family. My upbringing was completely different. My parents divorced and remarried. Both are big on pitching-in and working together to get things done. This has caused quite the clash in my marriage. My husband works less than me and makes about half as much. Yet, he often expects me to be a traditional wife - responsible for the majority of intense cleaning and cooking - which I refuse. I say we do it together, equally - fights ensue. He won't acknowledge that he is trying to impose his family's patriarchal values in our marriage - he just says "there's nothing wrong with wanting my wife to take care of me."
This past weekend we had dinner at his parents' house. We see them maybe 5 or 6 times a year. As we're leaving, my DH walks out the door and as I'm headed out, my FIL shuts the door and holds it closed with his outstretched arm blocking my exit. Then he tells me I need to take care of husband. I was caught completely off guard and was really confused. His father yammers on for a minute or so before MIL interrupts and says something like "stop you'll scare her" and I'm permitted to walk out the door.
I think FIL is a pompous ass and he's crossed boundaries for the last time. I intend to limit contact with them even more than I have in the past but I also want to be prepared if something like this happens again. I know DH has a huge part to play in this and I'm in the process of ripping him a new one. But I also want to be ready to stop FIL myself if this happens again. Any suggestions for a calm, strong response?
Re: In-Law Vent, Again
So, obviously your DH is telling them about this issue. I hope you rip him a new one for that in and of itself. This issue should not be shared w/ your IL'.s
Second, what was your DH's reaction when you were "permitted" to leave? What exactly happened- what did you say to him, what did he say to you?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Did you not know this about him and his family before you got married. This seems like a pretty big difference in cultural beliefs and supposed roles of spouses. These are the things you should discuss before getting married.
I am sorry his family is acting this way, but its really hard to change the way a person is raised.
Start telling him "I'm not wrong for wanting a husband who can support a family on his own, and financially take care of his wife. When is that going to happen?"
I would not go back to your FILs house until you get an apology from him.
Honestly, this is a big issue in your marriage. I'm not sure you're in the marriage that is right for either you or your H.
Oh boy. Your H is refusing to do an equal share of the work simply because he doesn't have a vagina, he's whining to his parents about your private marital issues, AND his father uses force to prevent you from leaving the room?
What did your husband say when you told him that his dad would not allow you to leave the room until he was finished lecturing you? If it was anything less than, "How dare he, we won't be seeing him again" or something to that effect, then you have a gigantic problem.
You really need to put a stop to all this, pronto. Especially since you have a baby on the way. Your first problem is with your husband (because you can avoid FIL until this all gets straightened out, or just avoid him forever if need be). You need to sit down with your husband and say in no uncertain terms that the housework/etc. needs to be divided equally and you are not his personal maid. No arguments, no discussion, nada. You will not be waiting on him hand and foot, and that is final. And you will not spend time around his father until his father apologizes, and even then you won't be in a room alone with him, and your H is to get up and leave with you the second that FIL pulls that chauvenistic bullshiit again.
Counseling would be a good idea as well. If your husband refuses, then I might start thinking about living with a friend or relative for a while, to decide if you really want to live like this for the rest of your marriage and if you want to expose a child to this mysygonistic lifestyle. I would also consult a lawyer about how this will affect any rights he may have to your unborn child.
I might also have a friend wait in the house with you, or outside in the car with your stuff, for the time when you confront your husband that he needs to change or you're leaving. Because if his dad is the type to physically block you from leaving the room just so that he can lecture you on "serving" his son, I'm honestly afraid of what your husband might do to you if he's got you alone and he's angry.
I wouldn't even worry about FIL for now. Worry about setting your husband straight, first.
Did you not talk about any of this before you got married? I don't understand why you would find a man with this type of attitude attractive.
Oh I believe they talked about it and he agreed that's his family way of thinking, he's different, more modern...believes things should be equal...he may actually really believe that but there's some disconnect with then how he acts.
I say counseling, about boundaries, and roles...very important conversation to have in a very guided way and there needs to be care through...
I think you've done everything right thus far, and now you need someone to step in and help
Your FIL may be a pompous_ass, but why didn't your husband come back into the house when he realized that you weren't behind him?
Why in the hell is your husband complaining to his father about you to begin with?
You KNEW that your husband was a jerk-y misogynist, yet you not only married him but procreated with him? I think that your problems are going to be much more complex than how to handle an assh0le FIL.
Carry pepper spray in your purse. If your FIL pulls a stunt like that again, shoot him in the eyes with it.
We did discuss this before we got married. He did/does claim he has more modern views. He won't admit to himself or anyone else that he has patriarchal expectations. This situation has gotten worse in the past few months since the pregnancy. We are in counseling but I don't think it will help. We discussed things with the counselor and it felt like we resolved some of these issues. But a few weeks later, he repeated the same chauvinistic expectations and when I mentioned our counseling session he dismissed it because the counselor has an "American" view. He has also called me an "American" wife, as if it was a derogatory term. Ridiculous, given that he was born and raised in America, attended a liberal arts college, and claims to be a liberal. Unfortunately, at this point, I'm doubtful that we will be able to resolve this in an acceptable way and I think the future of the marriage is at risk. But, until I reach that final breaking point, I'm giving it the good fight. And that extends to the interactions with the FIL. I am not going to get caught off guard again. And if I decide to to see the inlaws and FIL tries a stunt like this again, I'm going to tell him to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Since your husband is committed to his views, I don't see any way this can be resolved.
Also I would bet money that at best your husband knew his father was going to say something to you, and at worst was a co-conspiritor in what happened.
I'll ask again - what did your DH do in the moment when your FIL blocked you from leaving?
And actually- I wonder if this "new" attitude is some type of manifestation of embarassment on his part that he works and makes less than you. He feels bad about what his role is, so he's now going to try and make you feel bad. Have you explored this at all in counseling?
Regardless - I'd also be asking him why he thinks you, not only his wife but his PREGNANT wife, might not also like to be taken care of by her DH sometimes.....
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I would not walk into their house again until you got a sincere apology and promise that he will never do that again, directly from your FIL. You won't, so that will solve things quite nicely and you'll never go over there again.
If, by some miracle, you do get a promise to never isolate, bully and intimidate you then I would always carry pepper spray in my hand when in his presents.
And I wouldn't be shy about using it.
What, by chance, is DH's defense of this appauling behavior?
I would not walk into their house again until you got a sincere apology and promise that he will never do that again, directly from your FIL. You won't, so that will solve things quite nicely and you'll never go over there again.
If, by some miracle, you do get a promise to never isolate, bully and intimidate you then I would always carry pepper spray in my hand when in his presences.
And I wouldn't be shy about using it.
What, by chance, is DH's defense of this appauling behavior? How can you be fighting with someone who should be falling to his knees begging you to forgive his terrible father.
this is all odd. he 'said' he had a different view before you got married but what did his ACTIONS tell you? did you just ignore them? assume after you said 'i do' they'd go away?
frankly-if dh said that to me i would've laughed at him.
his FIL is an ass. it seems, in DH's case, the apple didn't fall far from the tree......
Again, though - what did your husband say or do when you told him that FIL blocked your way and lectured you? If he didn't do anything about it, then FIl is really the least of your worries right now.
Don't go to the in-laws' house again until you get an apology. That's how to handle FIL.
As for your husband ... he's probably not going to change. So decide if you want to live like this forever or if you want to get the hell out. You can "fight the good fight" all you'd like, but he's got to work on things too. Otherwise, you'll just be banging your head against the wall and asking him for help while he's asking you where the hell his dinner and clean clothes are. There's no shame in removing yourself (and your child) from a bad situation. It doesn't mean you were lazy and gave up ... it means you tried your best and didn't get anything in return. Marriage goes both ways, and there's only so much you can do on your own.
And since your baby ticker says "her," chances are that he'll be asking your daughter the exact same thing some day. And also telling her that she's expected to be her husband's servant. Is that really what you want for her?
And a big ditto to those who suggested asking your "traditional" husband why the hell he isn't acting like the "traditional" male breadwinner, if he feels so strongly against traditional marriage roles. If this is a more recent thing, sounds like he's just using his culture as an excuse for his laziness. Or Daddy got into his brain and convinced him that his pregnant wife ought to be waiting on him hand and foot.
But, why? What's the point?
Hey - I'm all about "fighting the good fight" for a marriage that has a chance at being saved, when both spouses are commited to fighting for it.
But you already admit that this isn't the case here........your husband refuses to seek counseling and has no intention of changing his attitude/behavior. He likely knows darn well what his father did, and he's ok with it. What exactly is there to fight for and save here?
Do you think that his attitude will improve once there's a baby in the picture? If he expects you to be the "traditional" wife, you do realize that things are only going to get worse for you.......right?
H is from India and his family has the same views - whatever my FIL says, goes, and the men are supposed to be the leaders in the family. After we got engaged I started spending more and more time with my in-laws and once I realized just how extreme their views were I said to H that certain things that were a big part of their culture, like the sons living with the parents forever (with their families) and the wives being expected to take care of everything at home on their own were just not going to fly with me, but that if that's what he wanted since that's how he grew up I understood completely and wouldn't fault him at all if we had to part ways. He assured me that he didn't want a marriage/life like his parents have, and has proven that to me throughout our marriage.
Maybe at your next counseling session you could broach the topic that way with your H - say that as you've learned more about their culture, you've realized that you don't fit into it and can't ever live your life that way. I think your H is a jerk and not being supportive of you, but some of it is due to the difference in the cultures. If you can't see yourself ever fitting into the role as his culture defines it (which I sure as hell couldn't) and he can't ever accept you as a wife in the way that most modern day Americans define it then there's no way your marriage can work. If you approach it from that perspective instead of making it seem like he's doing something wrong (even though he is), then you might get a more honest response from him about whether or not there's any chance of him changing.
I think you need to stand your ground more. You H has been feeding your FIL this information, and I bet he knew what your FIL was going to do to you. This is your H showing who he really is. If you give in what is the next step? Are you going to go part-time so you can clean the house more? Then quit your job all together to take care of him? Then is he going to give you a mental list of things to do, when to do them, when to tell him you have done them, and when he is going to check up on you? Then on top of all the control he has on you will he make you have to ask for money for bills and he can veto any purchases he doesn't like such as getting the baby a new coat or buying yourself makeup?
Other than holding firm to your ground, there isn't much you can do to save your marriage. He needs help. He needs it and he isn't going to get it. Even if you get a south asian therapist that speaks whatever south asian language he is, who has a thick south asian accent when speaking english, if they disagree with him and that marriage takes work from both of you and compromising in the middle, he will still say she is too "american" to know what she is talking about.
This post make me have to reply because of your poor kid. They already have three people that will be very closely teaching them that a girl is supposed to be subservient to all the men in her house hold and that a boy should control the woman in his family. You have to be the one that shows them that those three people is wrong by being strong and standing up to these bullies, which is what your FIL and your H are. There were many, many ways to go about their beliefs and they chose to show you by force and threats, that isn't ok.
Someone should tell her FIL that.
If your marriage is at risk and you're already in counseling, so why would you get pregnant?!?!?!
You can't change the core of someone, your husband isn't a good partner and it sounds like you know it, so why would you plan on making him the father of your child???
I don't mean to be harsh but I really don't understand why people in unhappy marriages decide to have children?!
Your husband is not going to change for the same reason your FIL is not going to change- neither of them believe they are doing anything wrong. Their belief system makes them superior to women and what you have to say really means squat to either one of them.
You have a few choices to make. Get the hell out of there, enjoy sweet freedom, and raise your daughter to be a strong, free thinking woman or fall in line with what your husband and father-in-law want and continue the cycle for your child.
Seems like he is completely comfortable being an "American Husband." If he wants all of the benefits of the traditional lifestyle, he has to pony-up to the responsibilities, too.
Sucks to be a lazy-azz American man who needs to be a grown-up in his own home with cleaning dishes and floors .... and soon to be babies. If he thinks things are getting anything but harder he's delusuional.
He can't have it both ways - all the laziness of an American guy and all the pampering of an old fashioned head of household.
My DH would have beat his Dad into next week for pulling a stunt like with me.
You know you have a problem that's not going to be fixed, right? I think you seriously need counseling for yourself to figure out why you put up with behavior.
Do NOT leave your home without knowing the legalities involved. My brother lost his home in the divorce because his wife said she wanted a trial separation. The court said my brother abandoned the home and he had no rights. He is one of two people I know who went through this.
While I'm not thinking this has a happy resolution, do not leave your home without talking to an attorney and making sure all of your ducks are in a row.
I'm very sorry for your situation and wish you all the best.
Ok, so here is my two cents even though the girls on here will not agree.
I believe that this marriage does deserve a fight. I think with y?all being in counseling that this should be the main subject, and that there is a chance that this marriage will work.
Y?all both vowed for better are for worse, so this is the ?for worse?. Yes it is painful, and it?s not right the way your husband or the family is treating you. I think that limiting family is not the best way to go about it; I do not think that that is fair to your husband and it would not be right for the child either. That is still his parents and that will be her grandparents. Please think how you and your family would feel if it was swapped. I believe that this would just put more strain on the marriage. A list of your to do?s, and his to do?s would be a great place to start. You could also try to do one night is my night the next night is yours type thing, or do the choirs together. Also you need to bring up how the family treated you and he needs to see how it made you feel, and y?all need to do something about it, but it needs to be decided together (ex if y?all need to take a break from the family). That is what a marriage is about compromise, and talking it out. I?m not saying he will go for it but for the marriage and your child it deserves a good fight. Both of y?all giving up sure will not fix it, but maybe if you try it will wear him down, and open up his eyes, who knows this may just make the marriage that much stronger.
I will be praying for your marriage, and I will be praying for you. GL in whichever path you take, I felt it was best that you just hear both sides.
OK. So here's what I would do (and I am just speaking from my point of view since my hubby is a white American, but definitely came from a house were mom did everything for dad and the two darling sons).
When my hubby refuses or ignores the fact that I want him to help around the house or cook, I just don't do it myself until he gets off his lazy butt. Honestly, if they don't want to help, them I'm not doing one little thing! I will let the laundry sit (maybe just wash my stuff), let the bathroom get disgusting, and make sure I have food and let him fin for himself. If he doesn't like it, then he can start helping out more.
Obviously, you definitely need to set the record straight with him about keeping his parents out of your marriage. He must understand that what's between a husband and wife is none of his parent's business. If he refuses to do that, then you just need to ignore him and his parents. If his dad tries to block you again, say excuse me. If he doesn't move, pull out your cell phone and call the cops. That should show him. Then, get all your stuff and go to your nearest friend or relative and stay there for a couple days. See how your hubby likes you not being around.
It makes me sick that he didn't try to defend you when his dad did that. That's another thing I would bring up. That literally makes me sick thinking about that. If he were even fitting up to his "standards" he would have realized that a husband's job is to "protect" his wife. If he was protecting you, he would have stepped in and put his father in his place.