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I need your opinion as an IN
You know my current situation. One of the questions I get the most is "Are you staying in the US?"
What would you do if you were in my situation? What would make you stay vs leave?
My family is supportive and understanding. I said I wanted to stay in the States for now. 1st I have a job. I have nothing in France. No job, no car. And if you live/lived in France you know how hard it is to get a job. Also, starting over with your life gets tiring. I am going to be 30 next year and I have almost nothing to show right now. No real career that is. People here, including STBX tell me I'll have my family and friends. While that is true, people are working and not really available. Anyway, I don't think this is the solution for me right now. I might reconsider but I don't want to give up living in the States for now.
I was talking on the phone with one of my BFF here who happens to be an IN from Japan. She told me she would go back to Japan if she were to divorce. It made me feel sad. Sad that she would leave everything she has built here to start over and live with her parents at 30+ years old. I can't see myself doing this. My married life is a failure and I want to work hard for my life to be successful. I see going back to France as the ultimate failure in a sense.
I am not going to lie and say I have a desire for revenge. Before I moved to the US, my career was rising and I had a great life. STBX's life was not so good. He was still in school. After I moved to the US, my life went downhill. STBX's got better. He now graduated with a very good degree making great money for en entry-level position.
Re: I need your opinion as an IN
If my DH and I were to divorce I would move back to the States, but that is only because I haven't been here that long yet and I haven't built a life here outside of my marriage. If I had an established life here that would probably change.
Do whatever you feel is best for you.
Personally, I would most likely move to my home country if this were to happen to me. I'm really close with my family and that would be my main motivation. I can understand, though, your reluctance to 'start again.'
My question is this: if, in a hypothetical scenario, you could find a job that would at least provide you a decent living in France, woudl you then be happier there? In other words, job concerns aside, would you be happier there overall? If so, I'd go back to France. I know turning 30 and not having a career can seem like a personal disappointment (I am literally in the same situation in that sense), but you really are still VERY young, and 'starting over' will be a relatively short period in the longer term of your life.
Whatever you decide, you show a lot of determination and courage and that will always be in your favor!
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TBH, given that where you end up will probably have some sort of an effect on the amount of spousal support he has to pay, I wouldn't listen to anything your STBX has to say in this situation.
ETA: I know nothing about your state law, it just wouldn't surprise me if that were the case.
Hmmm, it's a tough situation. But I would say that you should stay here for now. You're a French citizen and can always return, but if you leave the US for a long period of time it may be harder to return or get citizenship, etc. It seems like at this point in time returning to France may close some options and I think that's a good enough reason not to return at this point in time.
However, I think you are being hard on yourself in feeling like a failure if you return. It is completely understandable, and I think I'd feel the same, but I think it's simply not true. You don't get extra bonus points for living through being miserable, and if at some point you feel that way in the US, or you don't think you have the chance to have a better life here, why continue to fight to stay? I think it's misguided pride and just a path to martyrdom.
So I guess I would stay, but try to work on the feeling that you HAVE to in order to make something of yourself and that returning to France is a failure. If you are making the best decisions for yourself, and working with a crappy situation and making the most of it than you are being a successful, grown up adult. At the end of the day whether this occurs in the US or France is besides the point.
If your job is the only thing keeping you there I'd stay and look for a job in france from the states. What line of work are you in?
I'm saying this based on the advantages of living in France as you age or have health issues as opposed to the US.
Would you consider moving elsewhere in the EU?
I agree with Jetur20. You should absolutely stay in the states if that's what you want to do and it makes sense for you. But if you give it some time, and you think you'd be happy somewhere else, then go! You only get one chance at your life and your happiness is the most important thing.
Personally, I find the health care situation in the states to be terrifying and we are going to stay in Scotland as long as possible. I just think the EU countries take so much better care of their people than the US does and I feel safer here. However, I am pretty sure that if something happened with DH, I would move back to the states to be close to family. As much as I love it here, I miss my family a lot.
Good luck with whatever you decide. My mom entirely recreated her life in her 50s and is happier than I've ever seen her so no matter what you do now, you can always do something else later.
BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks, Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks
Tough decision. I thought of this last year and back then I would have absolutely left France for Canada or Asia, the problem with this would be visitation for our son.
Now I think I would probably stay in France. We have a kid, so that changes things. He started school and I wouldn't want to uproot his life in the middle of a divorce. I find that I have a pretty good support system here and this summer I found that me and my "back home" friends have really drifted apart.
Good luck with your decision, it's really not an easy one to make.
Don't feel like 30 is too OLD to start over. Seriously - it's still young. I got my first decent job as a counsellor at 29/30 after going back to school at 26. And I had a guy in my program who was 48 and starting all over. 30 is not too old to start over, if it's what you want to do.
I do know that I would probably stay in England if my DH and I divorced. I'm now a citizen, I have a job I love, friends and a life here. I could get a life back in the States, but I probably still wouldn't live near my family anyway due to the job market. So, why not live here.
Do what is best for you, but don't do it out of revenge - revenge kicks back more often than not. Do what will make the most sense for you in the long-term and short-term, what will make you happiest and most at ease with who you are now and who you want to be in the future. Do you see yourself in the States for the long-term or in France? Will you do better here, sticking with what you are doing, or in France, starting over. At 30, you have MANY years ahead of you. You're not even half-way through your working life.
Best of luck!
I'm wondering the same thing, if you would consider moving elsewhere in the EU (or even Switzerland, a bit more difficult, but possible and the job market and economy are good)?
But if you want to live in the US, then by all means live there, if you're comfortable with your living situation there.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question. Both are good choices. If it was me, I would go home and would have no issues living with my parents. I would need their support. I know that my DH would stay, that is just the result of our personalities.
What I would not do is worry about what other people might perceive, whether it be you staying in the US or living with your parents in France or even moving to a completely different place in the EU or even the US. You have enough on your plate without worry about how people perceive you.
While I am all for national healthcare and think that the US could do much better at this (particularly for people without jobs and it definitely needs to be more firm with insurance companies), I don't think it's always bad and it's not fair to just assume that absolutely everyone gets bad care.
Last year my "minor" surgery turned into major surgery and a one night hospital stay turned into a 5 night stay. It cost over 50,000 USD. I didn't pay anything - and the hospital pre-cleared it for me with my insurance company without me having to ask. In one year I racked up close to 70k of medical expenses and probably paid for about 1,500 total (this is partially because I went to out of network providers, but includes labs, co-pays,various consultations - even across the country in CA - everything).
I got the best of care (Memorial Sloan Kettering in NY) and got in to see people immediately - I saw a specialist and she had me in the hospital the next day because I told her I was supposed to move out of the country soon. This is with a CRAPPY health care plan - anyone heard of Great West? We mock it at my office as a discount plan if you are lucky enough to find someone that takes it. Yet it worked out. Yes, I had some stressful weeks trying to find doctors that would take my insurance, but in the end it worked out. FH's mother also has insurance that kicks my insurance's azz. Her husband, who is a doctor who is head of the cardiology unit at a hospital, is on her insurance because it is so awesome. So there is much better than what I have, too.
Another experience that I know of is my brother, who has a 6 year old daughter who is in a wheelchair and fed through a tube. He has gotten insurance money to help pay for a van they need for her wheelchair, they also paid for IV systems for the house, special formula, etc. The State of California pays for my sister in law (the child's mother) to take care of her - basically as if she were a live-in nurse. It's not a full time salary, but she's getting paid to take care of her child, as well as special therapy, going to school early, etc.
I also remember that Land O Biscuit had a good experience with her surgery.
I know anecdotes are not evidence, but if someone has a job they should see what their insurance is like instead of just writing off the entire country and it's crappy healthcare system and assuming it's going to be horrible. I guess I'm just saying that fear of the across-the-board bad US healthcare is not really a good reason to make big life decisions. Also, as a French citizen, she can go back should she need to.
I think you have to go with your gut feeling and if thats to stay in the US then stay.
I feel exactly the same as you, for me moving back to the UK (where im from) would feel like a step back. I left the UK for a reason so would make the best of the situation i was now left in.
As lovely as it is to have your family etc to lean on you dont have to live near them to have their unconditional support.
I do hope you make the right decision for you. Good luck.
I agree with you on US healthcare, when you have good insurance in the US, the healthcare is great. I've never had a bad experience in the US in a hospital, at the dentist, or at the doctor's, but my family always had good coverage so it wasn't a problem to go to the doctor when we needed.
I've had some less than perfect experiences in Switzerland, even though we have mandatory (yet expensive) healthcare. For example, the dentist missing a giant cavity on an X-ray and having my tooth fall out a few weeks later while I was in the US, without any form of insurance that would work there.
Is your health insurance in the US good?
I absolutely agree - when you have good healthcare, you can have a wonderful experience - I had wonderful healthcare for a couple years and it was great. But then I lost my healthcare entirely and didn't have it for over a year and it was horrifying. All I meant to say was that if things go badly for whatever reason, there aren't many safety nets in the US like there are in the UK. It's just something I think about - I saw how easily my family fell apart when my dad was laid off and it's something in the back of my mind for when we move back to the states. So if I was living in the US on my own and my family was elsewhere, I would just want to think through those issues as well.
BFP Apr 2012, EDD Dec 19 2012 * twin h/b at 6wk, 9wk scan * Baby A lost at 12wks, Baby B was my rainbow born at 36wks
This! From your post today and previous posts, it seems obvious that you want to stay in the U.S. It's hard when your gut is going against what everyone says, but stick with your instincts. If you ever start feeling like you want to go back to France then you can always do that later on! That window won't close!
I understand being scared; in the US a bit of bad luck can ruin someone's life and that is unconscionable to me. We shouldn't allow that. Land O Biscuit - you are lucky that you have France's safety net to fall back on (I think; I don't know how it works, I just think of Europe as being some health care utopia).
You also have to realise that even if you don't have health coverage it's less expensive to go to the doctors here! I could of paid out of pocket for having E, including all the checkups without a problem. I had emergency surgery a few years ago and a night in hospital. the grand total....400 Euro!
That is a tough decision. If it were me, I would like to try to remain in France if I divorced, but I know it would be really difficult. If the only reason you want to stay in the USA is because of a fear of failure, don't do it. You are ONLY almost thirty and you are starting your life over right now whether you do it in the US or in France. You should ask yourself how long you see yourself in the USA? Do you eventually want to return to live in France? What is keeping you in the US? What reasons would tempt you back to France?Would a visit to your family help you decide one way or another?
Whatever you decide,it will be a struggle and will most likely be rewarding for you. You aren't a failure if you stay or if you go. and btw revenge is a really bad idea, it usually ends up with you in more pain than its worth.
Thank you ladies. Everyone had some very good points. The one thing I will remember is that I can always go back to France. I always had the desire to stay in the US for now. So I will stick to that.
As for my job, I am looking for a better one. While the one I have pays the bills for now and my bosses and coworkers are great, now that I am on my own it won't be enough.
As for the healthcare situation, that's what worries me the most. I have good insurance and I pay less than $100/month for one person but my knee surgery is still a huge dent in my finances. The surgery was $10K+. I had to pay a little under $4K out of pocket. This is huge for me. Especially when you add lawyer's fees. I am spending every month more money than I make and I don't see an end in sight before at least December.
The good thing is that I met my deductible so I can see my therapist without worrying about the price tag. Well I hope.
Oh and when I said revenge, it was not in a bad way. I meant if I can have a happy and successful life in the US, it will be the best revenge for me. I won't lie. I am pretty sure STBX thinks I am miserable and will be miserable. I will be so proud if I can achieve success. It will be a non-verbal way to tell him "see? you were such an assshole, left when you had a good job, you had tons of friends and family but in the end, things turned out pretty well for me".
There's no rule that you have to stay or go back. You need to do what is right for you.
Chiming in late. I didn't reply last night, because I was a bit too exhausted after the long evening in the ER.
Everyone is different, but do what you want. I get a bit of surprise when I tell people I'm staying here, but it's what I want to do. I like it here, so splitting with my husband isn't a reason in itself to leave.
The decision to stay or to leave shouldn't have anything to do with your marriage. It shouldn't have anything to do with feeling like a failure if you go home. It should just be a question of where will you be happier?
Life is too short to let anything else get in the way of that.