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discuss: moving to Maui (long!)
So I have been debating whether or not to post this on here...but since the board seems seriously dead today, I figured I'd make a post that will hopefully start some discussion.
H and I have been seriously considering moving to Maui, probably somewhere around this time next year. We like the idea because we currently have really nothing holding us here. We don't own a home, and neither of us have really solid/long term jobs. I think we like the idea of moving somewhere, just the two of us, and starting our life together. We think we would be a lot happier there because we just think that life style fits us more. We, well mostly I, have been doing a lot of research about it. There are lots of negatives out there, with only a few positives. By the time we would move, I will have finished with school and will have my teaching certificate, so would look into getting a teaching job there or subbing until I could.....or even working in hospitality/food and bev.
We really love the laidback lifestyle that is there and we are totally willing to simplify our life to make it work. While the cost of living is higher there, it's not ridiculously higher, because Seattle already has a very high COL. We love the sunshine. Unlike lots of you ladies on here,, we hate the cold/dreary/rainy weather that we get here and would love to have sunshine year round.
My biggest reservations are that it's such a huge lifestyle change, and while it's something I would love, I still feel nervous because it is such a big change. I'm also nervous that we wouldn't succeed and would have a hard time finding/keeping employment. I am also not sure if it would be something that would last a lifetime. H says if we move there, it would be for good....but I am not sure if it would be a realistic place to live forever and raise a family. Of course, eventually we would want to buy a house, but over there, there are not many houses, mostly condos (H says he would be fine living in a condo for the rest of his life). The houses that are within a normal price range, are typically much lower quality then something you would find here. The one thing we have going for us there is that H works in construction/remodel, so any home improvements we could do ourselves.
I have a serious problem with always doing the "what-if, what-if" thing and usually put way too much thought into things, or constantly focus on the things that could go wrong/could be negative, instead of weighing both sides.
So, would you consider a move like this if you had no real obligations keeping you here (and you don't really like living here)? Would you stop doing all the what-ifs and just take a big risk with your new H and see where life takes you? Everyone says that if you don't try, you'll never know, or may always think, what if we would have, etc?
Obviously we have plenty of time to make a decision, but we would need to decide sooner rather than later, so we could start planning/saving for the move.
So, weigh in. What do you think? What would you do? I am hoping for some positives here....because I seem to always focus on negatives.....but I like honest opinions. Anyone know someone who does live or has lived there?
p.s. hope you were able to follow that. i feel like I just wrote a huge hodge-podge of info. 
Re: discuss: moving to Maui (long!)
If I was in your situation (we plan on staying here because that's where family is and we really like it - although I wouldn't say I like the grey weather, far from it, I just like having variable weather
), my main concerns would be things like:
- feeling isolated (granted I don't know how often people visit you here, it just seems like a much bigger trip and I know I'd see my family less often)
- wanting an actual house/yard/etc
- I couldn't promise my H that I would want to live there forever, that seems like a pretty hard commitment to make if you haven't lived there before
- dropping everything and hoping to get a job in an unfamiliar place
I don't mean to point out the negatives, I think the positives speak for themselves - weather, lifestyle etc, all the 'fun' things. Although maybe some people here can touch on the economy and job market there, which I think should also be a serious deciding factor.
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I'm extremely conservative/safe when it comes down to the topic of moving, and cannot fathom the thought of leaving NW WA. I've lived here my whole life, and love the (usually) mild weather.
But you and your H are not happy here.... period. I would evaluate your savings and make a plan on how to survive financially in Maui. Are you dead-set on Maui, would another HI island be better financially? I think moving is a great option at this point in your lives, and you might as well do it if you can!
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I think it's really hard to find out about the economy and job market. From what we have seen, it seems like there are so many jobs there....but locals will tell you differently. Some people say that if you have a good work ethic it will be easy to get a job because the locals aren't very reliable and will leave work if the surf is high, etc....but then others just say it's hard to find work. Obviously the economy isn't booming, but I don't think it's really any worse than here.
I have some of the same worries as you......I don't think I would feel isolated, because we truly spend hardly any time with family....but the fact that you are stuck in the middle of the ocean and trips anywhere cost a lot more, is a factor that worries us a little. I feel like I would love it there....but then I worry if I would feel "stuck" or homesick, etc. You never really know how it will affect you....that's one of my "what-ifs".
The big deal breaker to me is I would never up and move my entire life without at least one of us having a guaranteed job in the next city.
Neither of us have lived here our whole life, so I think that's one thing we have going for us. Actually, H up and moved here when he was 19, all on his own, knowing that he knew no one here at all. So I think he has better experience in totally uprooting. I was uprooted here at 13...so while I know what it's like to leave friends and family behind, I didn't learn "how to survive" in a new place so to speak.
Also, Maui seems like the island that would work best for us. We don't like the idea of Oahu, because from my research, I've heard that Oahu is like LA on a small island....and we aren't looking for a crazy busy, traffic-y place. Our other consideration is the big island, because it's supposed to be the most affordable...and they currently need teachers there. But we haven't been there, so it's hard to move there without knowing what it's like there. We have been discussing making a trip out there around december-ish and looking more into the big island and maui and seeing if we truly think it would work for us. talk to the locals, look into employment, etc.
I agree.
The only problem is that most jobs will not hire someone who doesn't already live there. Apparently employers have a big problem with "transplants" moving there...but leaving after 2 months because they find out it's not for them. So the employers spent all that time training someone, etc....and then they leave.
I think maybe one way we could get around this is if we have enough money saved for maybe at least two months of expenses? I know that I could immediately get on the substitute teacher list once there, which would hopefully start some employment for me.
But, yes. I totally have thought of your point.
ETA: that was in response to having a job before moving there. for some reason it didn't quote for me.
i have friends and family on oahu, so i can't answer for maui, but i will tell you the job market in oahu is *not* good...even if you have a job, you can hardly pay for what you have. EVERYONE "our age" (few years post college, working full time) has a second job so that they can pay their bills. even my friends in relationships....2 working adults, each have 2 jobs. at least. i know a few people with 3 jobs too (but they are extremes).
some of our older friends/family (late 30's, early 40's) are dual income, kids, house... some of them have a second job, not all. but i don't know a single SAHM or SAHW (except my moms billionaire bff).
i also have several friends locally that have moved here FROM hawaii (various islands). they love it here for the variability in weather, well paying jobs, and no "island fever" where they're stuck there forever.
sorry for the negs...but IMHO, they outweigh the positives (sunshine, beach, slower lifestyle) big time.
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this is what I have heard too.....
i'd like to think that we would really simplify our life so that we wouldn't have a lot of expenses....but I know that just may not help.
Have you factored in what it would cost to move your household goods and vehicle(s) there? I know shipping overseas can be expensive.
As far as subbing - have you checked if there really is a need? I was told I could instantly sub when I moved down here and that wasn't the case with so many teachers laid off in the last few years.
FWIW - I moved down here with DH because of his job and was unemployed for 10 months and I was applying to everything. Red Robin, Target, and professional jobs related to my degree.
According to google there is still a 7+% unemployment rate in Maui.
We did look into shipping costs. It costs $1072 to ship a car. We would sell one of our cars and only ship one. We would also sell the majority of our household stuff. The majority of housing over there comes furnished....which I think is because of so many transplants.
From what I have seen, there is a need for certified subs. They seem to have a problem with finding subs that are actually certified (they take subs with just a bachelors, but no teaching degree), and if you do have a cert, then you are placed above subs who don't......but I don't know how to look into it any further than that. Should I contact the district? I just went by what I read on the website, etc. I'd love to get in touch with actual teachers there, which I have been working on.
My SIL/BIL did this a few years ago (though they moved to Kona). They were planning to stay a year or so but ended up leaving after only a few months because of not having stable income and the cost of living.
Work was hard to come by especially for those who aren't "local" and at least where they were they were always seen as outsiders.
Have you been there? I am actually going to Maui next week (YEA!!!!)
your SIL/BIL seem to have the pretty typical experience that I have heard....
....
I have been to Maui. We honeymooned there. And we absolutely loved it.
Everyone says that of course you love it when you are doing the touristy stuff and vacationing. However, we didn't stay in a resort, we rented a condo from vrbo and we cooked some meals at home, grocery shopped, and didn't really do too many touristy things, etc. so I kinda feel like we got a little more of a feel of what it is like to be a local. But of course, we were there on vacation and not trying to survive to pay bills, etc.
Anyway, how long are you staying? Where at? I am jealous. You will have a lot of fun! It's really awesome there. Let me know if you want any rec's on anything........our fav place for fish and chips was Alexander's in Kihei. Seriously THE best. We ate there like three times!
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The good:
* A friend of mine who lives on Oahu says Hawaii, in general, has a teacher shortage so that's a plus. It might mean finding a job is not so hard for you, so that's a huge plus. On the flip side? My friend works for the state government and he is forced to take many unpaid furlough days due to the state not having money. I've also heard (but don't know how true this is) it's difficult to teach at private schools in Hawaii unless you are actually native Hawaiian and there are laws in place that protect the rights of native Hawaiians/Polynesians.
The bad:
* I have a friend who lives in Maui that has worked at a Gamestop all his life and coaches swim teams in his off time, even though he has a college degree, because he can't find other work. He lives at home with his parents and is 25+.
* Most things are a lot more expensive in Maui than they are even on Oahu, cause nothing ships directly to Maui. So cost of living is likely higher on Maui than it is on bigger islands. This includes pretty much everything. Food, clothes, whatever.
* The population of Maui is a lot less than the population of Oahu, which means there is less need for buildings (since you mentioned your DH is in construction).
* Real estate is marginally more expensive on Maui than it is on Oahu. For comparison, his 1080sqft condo on Oahu cost about 577k.
* According to friend (who does live on Oahu so grain of salt): The running joke is there's nothing to do on Maui other than have sex and get high.
* Most friends I have that grew up on any island in Hawaii have worked their ass to get /off/ the islands cause that island fever thing is real.
* Hawaii has state income tax (~12%) and state sales tax (~4.5%). On the bright side? Property taxes seem to be about 0.3%. Super simple maths, if you start out with a base of 20k in either Seattle or Maui, your spending power in Seattle is 18200ish versus 16800ish, that's assuming the tax rates stay consistent. This doesn't actually seem to bother most of my friends, cause they're used to it, but after having your income not state-taxed it might be a small blow.
* Amazon Prime is nonexistent on Hawaii. There's no such thing as free two-day shipping of anything, which if you're looking to downscale your living expenses isn't necessarily a bad thing. But just wanted to throw that out there. XD
* Gas is super expensive in Hawaii.
I've joked to D about moving to Tahiti after a fabulous honeymoon there. Some days, I dream about it and maybe in the future, we might? I don't know. I seem to remember you went to Maui for your honeymoon? Just... as a precaution, be sure it's not the desire to go back to your honeymoon state of mind. I'm not saying that's what's driving this desire to move, but just in case, I kind of wanted to throw it out there. There are other places to move to in the United States that have sunshine most of the year round and aren't as difficult to adjust to in terms of living, cost of living, and accessibility to things you're used to (that aren't Los Angeles).
But that said, if you prefer the lifestyle down there... it's really what you guys are happy with. Just, the numbers don't feel like they add up very well.
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Me too, which is why it occurred to me! I remember my friends griping about it all the time about things they can't get on the island and how they always have to pay shipping costs.
Also, you might have already looked into this, but this might help: http://www.bestplaces.net/col/
I can't believe I didn't think of the shipping thing. After growing up in AK and learning that most places don't count AK and HI as "real" states and try to charge a ton extra for shipping on anything.
I have a friend who just up and moved to Maui, it's been about 4 years now I believe. She has had an ok time with it, but I think that's due to a couple significant differences between your and her situation. For one, she has graphics skills and is a trained photographer in addition to the first reason she went there, to study yoga. She lives a much more "flow-with-it" lifestyle that to me is a little less stable. She's more flexible on housing (often renting a room in a place with other people) then I think you and your H would want to be. She does love the outdoor lifestyle, going surfing and hiking plenty. It suits her well.
Personally, even if we didn't have the large amounts of family tying us here and we could afford to up and move somewhere and last for awhile until we found jobs, I wouldn't select Maui. The biggest problem for me with it is the expense (how much of the food and goods has to be shipped in, and from how far) and the isolation. To visit friends/family, it's a pricey airfare and good length flight.
The bolded statement is, I think, really the problem I am seeing.
I knew many of the things you laid out....and I did learn about the state income tax, and did a paycheck calculator with what my expected teacher wage would be there and because of the state income tax, it's about $300 less per month then it would be here.
I think the biggest problem with the "numbers" is that, I can see them working.....with a simple lifestyle (i.e. small living space (studio/small 1br), no cable, basic cell phone plan, only one car and maybe a scooter/riding the bus, seriously shopping sales on groceries, etc.). I think we could be totally find doing this for the trade-off of sunshine/beaches/"paradise".............I just don't see us doing that forever.....I have a feeling that eventually we will want a few more "luxuries"....
Real Estate on Maui is def currently less than what you mentioned on Oahu....but the places are just very basic.
We talked about just renting a room for several months when we first get there so that our living expenses are even less while we are getting stable in employment and so we could save up more money to live in a comfortable place, etc.......But again, we wouldn't want to live the rest of our life in a room for rent.
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We've considered Vegas too, but for us, that would be a totally different move because I have a huge amount of family in Vegas, which includes my dad. That's where I grew up before I moved here at 13.
Your bolded statement is what I have heard a lot of.....
....I just don't want that to happen to us after such a huge move.