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Seeking: Normal Humans *SUPER long*
I need a bit of advice, please. My brother (we'll call him Tom), used to be incredibly fun and sarcastic and all the things I love in people, but since he's graduated from school and gotten an amazing job, he's moving from snarky to condescending, selfish and at times, a wee bit hateful. Anyway, he dated a girl (let's call her Sue) in highschool and then on and off through college. She and I became fast friends and I now consider her to be one of the best.
Here's where it gets a tad confusing. Sue and Tom were great friends for a while post-final-break-up. They even came with DH and me to my sister's out-of-town wedding together. Sue became great friends with a friend of my family's, Nancy, who is a wonderful old soul, and they became roommates. Nancy was dating a guy, Mike, for a few months and were semi-serious, but not living together or engaged or anything. Well, like the soap opera this is, Sue and Mike were caught...ya know...by Nancy, thus ending relationships between Nancy and Mike and Sue. Even still, Tom was friends with Sue and was willing to be friends with Mike, going as far as to invite them both to my wedding fiesta.
Enter the wrench: Tom and Nancy started dating. I mentioned to them at some point (as neither of them expressed concern previously, just out of respect) that I would be going to lunch with Sue and boy-oh-boy did Tom FLIP.OUT. He screamed and yelled and demanded I not see or talk to her again until finally I agreed out of sheer exhaustion (about four hours later and three in the way too early morning). I shouldn't have given up, but historically, I am a push over and ALWAYS give in. I guess he knew that about me. In speaking with Nancy after the big fight, she assured me she was fine with it, even encouraged it and said she would speak with Tom and try to change his mind, too.
So a few months later, tragedy struck with the death of my grandfather. Sue was was concerned about his illness pre-Tom-mandated-friendship- break-up, so I called and let her know, and we started to hanging out again. I intended on sharing this with Tom, but he and Nacy had a simultaneous life drama and I didn't feel something so petty was necessary to bring up the one time post-fight that I did see him (he lives half a country away). So, yes. I lied. I am a chicken-s and was definitely afraid of the inevitible fight that would ensue. Also, evidently, Nancy did not share with him that she graciously blessed my friendship with Sue.
DH and I are now very close to Sue and Mike and upon this discovery, Tom threatened to cut me out of his life forever if I did not end my friendship with them. But, I stood my ground, and insisted that he cannot mandate who my friends are, especially when he had no problem with our friendship it pre-Nancy. He has no argument other than to say he doesn't like it now.
To the need-advice part: Sue and Mike have asked me and DH to be in their wedding. DH does not have a tremendous amount of respect for Tom given his behavior toward me and my family over the last few years, and heartily agreed. I am having some trepidation - read: panick attack - as I feel that while Tom has been aggressive and hateful and completely irrational the last several months, this would surely end our rocky relationship. I have also agreed to be in the wedding, but am really having a tremendous amount of anxiety and feel like I should tell her that while I love and support her and her marriage, I feel like this would be detrimental to my family, crazy thought it may be. DH feels as though it's none of his business, but as word has a tendency to "get around" like the sl*t she is, he will find out. PLEASE HELP. I AM INSANE. TIA you lovely ladies 
Re: Seeking: Normal Humans *SUPER long*
You had a great relationship with Tom once upon a time. But that time is gone. Regardless of the fact that he's your brother, and you want to keep a relationship with him, he sounds like a d!ck. If you didn't have the history with him, if you just met him since he graduated from college, would you want to be friends with him? It sounds like keeping him in your life carries too big of a price tag.
He'll probably accuse you of choosing your friends over him. Tell him you're choosing yourself over his diva-ish demands.
Your brother is a douche and I can not believe you would even consider dropping her wedding because he is an immature moron. How old is he? How old are you? Are you going to let people (especially your brother) dictate your life to you?
You need to tellyour brother to mind his own business and if he doenst like it he can choose to stay out of your life.
The only people who are manipulated are the ones who allow it!
This, that, and the other.
And my advice- don't talk about Sue or Mike EVER around Tom and Nancy (doesn't matter that she "graciously" approves of the friendship, she is still the wronged party AND she's w/ your brother). Ever.
If your brother hears about them (and your friendship w/ them) through other channels, so waht? He brings it up? "It's none of your business". Rinse and repeat.
He yelled at you for FOUR hours? Why on earth did you STAY there for FOUR hours? Get up and walk away. Get up and say "I'm not listening to you. This isn't any of your concern".
Again - rinse and repeat.
You are giving your brother WAY too much power in your life.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Your brother has no say in who you choose to be friends with. The only person who *could* have a problem with this situation is Nancy and she doesn't care so your brother is way out of line.
Stand up to him and do what you want to do. You want to stand by Sue and Mike at their wedding? Do it. Your brother's opinion shouldn't even matter and shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on your decision.
The thing is, if you have a relationship with Tom, it's "a relationship at any cost," meaning in order to have a relationship with your brother, you have to give up who you are, who your H is friendly with, who you include as your friends. That is just not worth it.
Today he's telling you who you can be friends with (in a relationship that was NONE of his business; HE was not wronged in the Nancy-Mike-Sue episode) - - what will his next demand be?
The fact that you feel the need to give up a part of your life "for the sake of your family" is troubling. I strongly suggest you seek counseling if Tom is not the only "family problem" that you have (as your post implies). Counseling will provide you with strategies to enforce boundries, and stop feeling you need to be a "people pleaser" to keep loved ones in your life.
I also agree - do not discuss Sue and Mike with your brother or Nancy EVER. If he accuses you of being disloyal or "hiding this from him," you can truthfully tell him "I don't need to tell you about things that are none of your fvcking business!"
You are all absolutely right. Tom is 28 and I am ashamed to be 29 and still searching for my vagina, evidently. Nancy, however, is a baby at 22. Not to suggest that she is incredibly immature as I really do like her, but I remember being 22 and what was important to me at the time, and I don't think she is too far off that mark. (Incidentally, she retracted her blessing once confronted by Tom, making me look like a liar.)
I think Tom is at a point of no return with his bad attitude and I agree...I just do not need that kind of negativity in my life. You are 100% right that I let him manipulate me. I was doing so well the last fight, essentially telling him to eff off...I don't know what has made me rethink this so much. But, I guess I will just have to take him up on his offer of having a "talk to you on Christmas" relationship.
Oh...I see now in writing how crazy that looked that I let him yell at me for so long. I would have LOVED to leave, but he was in my house...a$$. I fled to my bedroom once to call DH (he was out of town) and he somehow managed to get into the room and continued badgering me. Seeing THAT in writing makes him look crazy on top of everything else.
I really appreciate all of your input and advice. Sometimes it just helps to hear from an unbiased source (though you are only getting my side...I just can't see the logic behind theirs.) Thanks again!
If you told him to leave and he didn't, the next step is to phone the police.
If there is ever a next time, call the police. Seriously. Your brother won't leave? Call the police.
Look - he's family. It's not entirely insane that you got caught up in what he was doing. You WANT to think the best, you WANT to have a relationship. It makes sense.
BUT - your brother has taken it too far and sounds like a douche on top of it.
I think the less you react to him, the less leverage you give him, the bigger impact you're going to have! He WANTS you to fight, he WANTS you to be upset. Don't give it to him.
Just be as prepared as you can. Prepared to walk away from him, prepared to say nothing more than "none of your business" or "Thanks for your opinion". Just be prepared!
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Your brother sounds a little cuckoo.
I get that he thinks Sue is a terrible person for sleeping with her best friend/roommate's boyfriend. The person hurt in that situation now happens to be the person that he loves (presumably, since he's dating her). But, the rebuttal is that it all worked out for the best, since he now has Nancy for himself. He can be free to dislike Sue and Mike and want nothing to do with them....but that can only extend to himself and Nancy. He has no say over your relationship with them.
I'd actually avoid talking about Sue and Mike with him at all costs. Don't mention them ever. If he finds out from others, so be it. If he wants to end his relationship with you over that? So be it. But don't give in to his unreasonable demands over who you can be friends with in your own time!!
And he berated you until 3 a.m. in your own house? Where was your husband at the time? At work? Ditto on threatening to call the police.
Yes...it was bananas...I had no idea what to do at the time. DH was out of town for a bachelor party....probably the only reason any of it happened in the first place. I agree totally with the "working out for the best" part! That has been my argument all along!! They both (Tom and Nancy) admitted that had it not been for Sue and Mike's indiscretion, they likely would not have gotten together at all. As for the cops, if it happens again, I probably will, but DH has told me he is not welcome in our home, especially without him there. So, hopefully, there will be no more issues.
And yes...I have not spoken a word about Sue or Mike since the shennanigans began. I had always been honest with Tom before about seeing Sue, which is why I did not think there would be a problem. Something about dating Nancy made him change. The way I ended the argument the last time was not to point fingers or call Nancy out on lying, but just to say that I wish they could find some peace and TRY to forgive and move on, because life is too beautiful to live with that kind of hate in your soul. That seemed to calm the storm for now (not that I have really spoken to him since). I guess I am just worried about the inevitable backlash over standing up in their wedding. But, like you all and DH have suggested, if he confronts me, I will tell him it is none of his effing business and leave it at that.
But, assuming he does find out, yeah, he confronts you? I'd just look at him and say "I'm done discussing this with you. Who I'm friends with is none of your business." and then walk away.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
The ties are mutual friends. No one that I think would run to him and tell, but maybe see through pictures on facebook. That's how the first fight began...he saw Mike "like" a picture DH posted on facebook and threw a fit...yes. Seriously.
And I guess that backlash is the wrong word. Like I said, I am SUCH a chicken-s and hate confrontation and am an awful fighter/arguer. I just need to put on my big girl panties and tell him to back off, but suppose I am clinging to a relationship that was lost a long time ago. I'm super pathetic that way. Also, our family is very close to Nancy's family and I am already getting a cold shoulder from them at family gatherings, which is fine, just a little uncomfortable. I don't want to call her out to her family and tell them about the times she either lied to me or Tom by telling me she was fine with it, but at the same time, I am perceived to be a monster for this. I am for sure a people pleaser, my biggest fault as I see now that more often than not, no one ends up happy, especially me.
He confronts you? ALL YOU SAY is "This isn't any of your business" and walk away. Or you can say "I'm very clear on what your opinion is. I'm not going to discuss this with you any further" and walk away.
Remove yourself from the situation.
Probably part of the reason he is so in your face is that he knows you're a people pleaser and figures if he pushes you enough, you'll give in and do what he wants.
And no, do NOT call her out to her family. There is no way you'll "win". They are her family, they are going to back her up on this. Accept it and dont' expect anything different.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I think you need to step back.
Stop worrying about what your brother thinks of you, what kind of relationship with you HE wants, and start thinking about the type of relationship with him that YOU want. Do you want a relationship with someone who bullies you and screams at you? Don't you feel you deserve better than that?
I enjoy FB, but the day someone b*tched to me about a relationship I had with another FB friend would be the day I blocked the b*tcher. Nobody tells me who I get to be friends with (and that includes DH)!!!
(Note: You can also customize your settings so that your brother and Nancy cannot see your wall posts or post on your FB).
You don't have to have a huge "I am not speaking to you" conversation. Slowly remove yourself from your brother and his drama. Stop contacting him, don't answer his calls or texts, and see him only for holiday parties when you and H are together. Don't talk about him with your parents - brush off any comments they make about him or questions like "have you spoken to Tom lately?"
That also goes for Nancy - do you need to be friends with someone who lies about you? I would not confront her family (they have her back, anyway), but if she asks you why you don't talk to her / hang out with her anymore, I would tell her you don't appreciate the fact that she lied about you do Tom. DO NOT make it about "choosing" Sue and Mike, and don't allow her to tell you you are choosing sides. Firmly repeat "I don't hang out with you anymore b/c I am angry that you lied about me to my brother. I also want to avoid the drama that you and Tom bring."
Really, I find it hard to believe you have so much contact with people who treat you so miserably.