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Family estrangement situations - like your opinion
Most everyone involved in the situation are now legal adults... it involves a dysfunction across three related families and three generations (grandparents through grandchildren). Given the specifics, I'm wondering about the term "condoning" versus trying to just have a relationship without regards to relationships between them and other individuals. (meaning, can you have relationships with everyone involved and not be harmful or encouraging wrong behavior)
A huge family rift formed over years involving parental alienation while the teens were young...and of some pretty severe magnitude. Boundaries were put in place, without full on estrangement taking place with the hopes that family could just mend or live some what guardedly. Everything began to be ramped up around the time the teens entered the somewhat stereotypical time of rebellion.
There were very different values among extended family members...this originally began the rift (it was grandparents wanting their children to raise the grandchildren a certain way). Let's just say that the more conservative rule'd family were targeted for undermining by the grand-parents whenever possible. (I should include here that this happened in the generation before as well...meaning the grandparents struggled with their own parents over this same issue, leaving their own children *somewhat* isolated from the generation before).
During this period in particular, bribes were being offered to the teen to get them to, in effect, run away from home and to live with them...but also in turning the hearts away from the parents and even their siblings (they did this to all the siblings, until one of them fell for it). Because the complaints against the parents were also pretty stereotypical (had to do chores, had to do schoolwork, had to be respectful, had to call if you weren't going to make curfew) sounded pretty weak for justification, they (both the extended family members and the teen) started to create fantastical lies to make everything make more sense. Because of the recent birthday, the child was no longer considered legally a child, so there was no recourse for the parents. An intervention of sorts was attempted, but the main extended family member barged into it....multiple offers of family counseling were turned down and ultimately complete estrangement set in.
The one extended family member does take medication for things like anger/depression, but they are also very toxic...and became alarmingly so...resulting in truly harassing behaviors...breaking and entering, causing problems for one of the parents at their place of business, taunting from across the street "I stole your daughter!" real off the nut type things. Only when the parents involved hired a lawyer did the harassment stop. They quickly tried to rope the other siblings in (one younger, one older than the teen in question) but they stood for what was right.
There are extended family members who had or could have had influence over those who were causing turmoil, but did nothing. I think because as a whole the families are dysfunctional with one another (everything from enabling to passively looking out for themselves) no one thought that this would be ultimately where everyone would end up. The estrangement has continued now for years, and everyone but the one set of parents and their other children have gone on to life as usual. The estranged adult-child and the ones who were heavy into parental alienation still talk crap about the rest of the adult child's family to the remainder of the extended family. Because of the pain the family doesn't really interact with even extended family members. Everyone interacts with the estranged adult-child and the alienating individuals.
The now adult-siblings of the estranged adult-child obviously miss their sibling, or at least who their sibling used to be. She's not changing her tune, nor will she make things right with the parents (it is now an ego thing, she'd have to admit to so much that I don't think she could do it...and she's also financially dependent on those who were the alienators, so she'd loose housing/money et cetera if she changed her tune where the parents go). Her acceptance of her siblings are to be on her terms, which are obviously going to put a wall between her siblings and her parents. Other relatives have already made this choice, but are accused of condoning.
Long back ground, but complicated. Is it condoning to accept a relationship on those grounds or participating in a relationship (dinners, holidays, mundane 'how's your day been' shopping trips) without defending or bringing up the wronged relatives?
Re: Family estrangement situations - like your opinion
Kind of, yeah. Many people would say MYOB, but this is why people get away with flagrant jackassery, because no one has the guts to ostracize them for it.
I make this same complaint of my own extended family. No matter how many times my mother and grandmother lay a guilt trip on me and say "but they're faaaaamily", I will never have a relationship with certain members of the extended tribe. Never.
Wow. Assuming I'm reading this right, the initial thought that I had was that the siblings shouldn't be held responsible for everything that has gone down in the family. They simply want a relationship w/ their other sibling. I can't fault them for that.
What I'm not clear on, though is:
Her acceptance of her siblings are to be on her terms, which are obviously going to put a wall between her siblings and her parents. Other relatives have already made this choice, but are accused of condoning.
Why/how would the terms put a wall between the siblings and their parents? And is it the parents who are accusing other relatives of condoning when they've reached out to the estranged sibling?
And by the 3 siblings possibly creating a relationship, what exactly is being seen as being "condoned"? The estranged siblings "compliance" with going along w/ the extended family, or condoning what the extended family did?
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Yes. If someone has lied and acted outrageously to your parents and continues to extend the charade for personal finacial gain/stability, it is wrong to pretend otherwsie for the sake of pleasant dinners, holidays, and shopping trips. In your senerio you describe outrageous lies that are STILL being perpetuated.
If this sibling said somethng like "I went through a really rough patch, a really difficult period but now I've changed my life and want to re-connect." then yes. It would be best to clear the air and make ammends, ... but if an ammends *can't* happen, at least the sibling needs to be in a different place, a new place and wants an adult relationship on new/better terms.
What you describe is just more of the same. And yes, to pretend otherwise is to condone some vicious behavior wronged against their parents.
It's very convoluted, but I'll try to answer the best I can.
The siblings aren't being held responsible for the behaviors of the others. Everyone accepts that no one held a gun to the head of anyone who chose the estrangement.
The parents have wanted the siblings to have a relationship with their estranged adult-child (they'd love one as well, honestly) and have always said that they (the parents) can not be the reason the siblings don't have a relationship. Obviously they feel pain, however. They only asked that attempts at a relationship would be respectful (which would involve things like, letting them know if they are going to attempt a relationship, not giving the play-by-plays as it may be too painful, keeping personal family business private, etc...all very reasonable).
The line in the sand was drawn by the estranged sibling..."it's either them or me" (was actually said) and that pretty much hasn't changed. It's been backed up by the main instigators within the extended family who have not uttered that line but have told the siblings (both then and now) during the beginning of the estrangement that they thought it would be for the best (what that means was not laid out) if there was no contact as long as they were in their parents life. For a brief time they would continue to "check in" with the other siblings to feel things out (gather information the kids gave unwittingly or to find things out like when the parents wouldn't be home...the whole breaking and entering thing happened during one of those episodes...or asking them to back the estranged child up in their lies).
For the last few months one of the siblings tried to reach out to the estranged one, and the estranged one basically alluded that she was a package deal with the instigators (she lives with and off of them). (Edited to add: one of the parents have continuously tried to reach out to their estranged adult-child to build a relationship with them...the other parent can't take it any longer and doesn't reach out but allows the spouse to act on their behalf...and the estranged adult-child responds to only, say, 8th attempt and does so only via text and always to cut the parent down or to say something snide on behalf of the grandparents. Basically even to the parents it's her showing that the grandparents need to also be included or she won't even pretend to be interested in reconciliation. At this point, neither parent are interested in that even if the grandparents were to completely ask for forgiveness, and neither would the eldest sibling. That has not been voiced to her or to the grandparents, however.) The message to her has been that there is a desire to work on a relationship *with her*.
Recently this young adult-sibling made arrangements to talk, saying that family shouldn't be like this...they agreed to meet, but the meeting was about accepting them, and immediately began talking negatively about the parents but playing the martyr at the same time. Estranged sibling sat there in silence seeing what would happen.
Estranged sibling refuses to see or speak to or make amends with the parents...now that foot is in the door for the one sibling, and their realizing that they have to do a package deal and are thinking if they just simply say I won't listen to bad talking about my parents but agree to everything else it's fine.
The other, older non-estranged sibling, believes that is a compromise and an unhealthy one at that (there are some weaknesses of the younger non-estranged sibling, as well as a big trust fund he just came into that she feels he's opening himself up to being used by the other family). The older non-estranged sibling believes that they should be called out each and every time something negative is said, but beyond that, questions how anyone can be in a relationship with those who would destroy their own family willfully, or be in close-relationship with those who stood by because they were going to loose out on things (like free babysitting) if they themselves had stood up against them.
I suppose the wall between the parents and the sibling that wants to connect would be similar to the wall that grew between the parents and their own siblings...that you can't really be open or trust them, and the obvious hurt that they are the ones that are put to the side and not defended or appealed for to their child. That there is a big elephant in the room that just can't be addressed, and eventually talking openly just won't happen. I don't know that an additional estrangement would happen between adult-child and the parents unless the grandparents and or estranged sibling eventually brainwashed him (for lack of a better term), but already some level of alienation is working because of their demands for the "lay of the land" of accepting them back into his life...the parents don't feel they can say anything without it eventually being twisted in his head, likely there is a "why does it have to be this way" sorrow over still being denied contact by their daughter, and the oldest sibling feels their youngest sibling shouldn't sit by and let their parents be lied about or maligned within the family just to have hopes of speaking with the estranged sibling. Oldest sibling is also less inclined to let slide any of the lies the grandparents and estranged siblings told about the two non-estranged siblings once they made it clear that they weren't going to play along. So you have one sibling who feels that they can swallow a little bit in order to have what little relationship is offered, and you have another sibling who can't see allowing abuse to happen just to have scraps of toxic relationship that would open back up into hurting their parents even more.
Obviously there's a lot of background and I'm not sure what to include for clarity's sake and how to keep things short at the same time. One of the parents has a sibling who is still in contact with the grandparents and has not made a stand even though he has said privately that they are brainwashing the one adult-child. He's a single father and gets free babysitting from the grandparents, and of course his children were bonded to the grandparents and were a good deal younger when all this started (they are not adults yet). They are also his go-to if and when something is needed financially. He did not speak out against them, because of these things, but claimed the "not taking sides" position but reduced drastically any contact with his sister (the mother of the estranged child) while continuing to have relationships with the grandparents (holidays, visits, phone calls, day to day things). He thinks that if he just steers clear of any conversation (or inputting when conversations do happen) that he's good to go. He's advising the one young adult-child to approach things the same way...which to the remaining sibling and the parents seems unkind of him to do.
This is an amazing situation.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I find your post very difficult to read.
You might get more advice if your post read "my sister," "my cousin" and you told the story so that it sounded "real." (vs. "boundries were drawn," "the adults," etc.).
This. It is incredibly difficult to understand because you are trying so hard to be vague.
Based on what I could gather from this, yes I think they are, in these circumstances, condoning the behavior because they are accepting everything on that part of the family's terms.
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