Clicky: Drinking 3

jennuinne · November 2011

.[Poll]

therickson · November 2011

I think this one is not always cut and dry. For some 1-2 everyday is not a problem but I could see it leading to problem drinking for others.

picksthemusic · November 2011

therickson:
I think this one is not always cut and dry. For some 1-2 everyday is not a problem but I could see it leading to problem drinking for others.

I agree. Some people can come home and have a couple glasses of wine with dinner (or a couple of beers) and be fine... I think it's all about intent.

amandasw · November 2011

I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.

KimberlyS530 · November 2011

amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.

I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.

If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.

If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.

In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).

In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.

therickson · November 2011

amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.

My point is the difference between choosing to have a glass of wine with dinner everyday but don't "need" to and can easily go without. If you 'have" to have a drink to relax... That is an issue.

ETA: Kimberly described it much better above!

emyinpink · November 2011

KimberlyS530:
amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.
I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.
If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.
If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.
In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).
In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.

This is better than I could say.

KimberlyS530 · November 2011

emyinpink:
KimberlyS530:
amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.
I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.
If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.
If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.
In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).
In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.
This is better than I could say.

Why thank you, Emily! (And therickson)

picksthemusic · November 2011

KimberlyS530:
amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.
I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.
If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.
If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.
In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).
In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.

You said this WAY better than I did. LOL

KimberlyS530 · November 2011

picksthemusic:
KimberlyS530:
amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.
I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.
If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.
If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.
In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).
In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.
You said this WAY better than I did. LOL

Thanks, picks - I think I knew what you were trying to articulate and this is a hot-button issue for me because I think we've all been programmed in the US to associate alcohol consumption with a desire to get drunk and we tend to overlook the many other reasons people might choose to drink.

BTW, more pics of M please! She's super adorable and I love looking at (other people's) babies. Almost makes me want one of my own... almost (still a few years out on that one).

sarack · November 2011

i think it's excessive.... but thati s because i never drink. i think it starts with having 1-2 drinks a day and then it becomes that you can't get through the day without them..

i agree that it isn't that black and white but if my husband drank 2 a day i'd be pissed. just sayin...

amandasw · November 2011

KimberlyS530:
amandasw:
I disagree - if you have alcohol every day, I think it = dependence, regardless of how you feel before/during/after. I would say both of my grandparents are alcoholics because they both have a drink or two every night, even though my grandma is the only one whose personality changes. If you can't live without it (or want to argue why you need to have 1-2 drinks every night), then you are dependent on it IMO.
I would totally disagree with that argument - I think having one drink with dinner is totally fine, especially if it's one which complements your food. I would argue that certain drinks, such as wine, good scotch or whisky, specially-crafted beers, etc., can be consumed as much - if not more so - for the taste than for the alcohol content.
If you spend any extended amount of time in Europe, especially in a country like France or Spain, you'll see that drinking every day is a common occurrence and I hardly would argue that the whole of the French population are alcoholics. It's not uncommon for people in these countries to have a drink at lunch, an aperitif before dinner, or a drink with dinner. I think other countries do a much better job of casual drinking and viewing alcoholic beverages as a complement to meals, whereas in the U.S. we tend to associate alcoholic drinks with the desire to get drunk. Quite frankly, I love a good glass of wine paired with a meal and don't think that in any way, shape, or form makes me an alcoholic. I'm not dependent on it any more than I am adding salt to my meal, but if it enhances the flavor and experience and it's not done in excess I see nothing wrong with it.
If someone chooses to drink because they have a psychological dependence on it, then that would constitute alcoholism (IMO), but choosing a wine to pair with a steak or seafood because you like the taste, even if you do it frequently, does not an alcoholic make. It makes you someone who enjoys wine and food, and there's really nothing wrong with that unless drinking that alcohol impairs your ability to be socially competent and maintain your usual standard of living.
In fact, multiple studies have espoused the health benefits of light-to-moderate wine consumption daily. I know there's the new study showing a slight uptick (about 15%) in breast cancer rates tied to wine consumption, but light-to-moderate consumption of wine (in particular) has been tied to stronger bones, better memory, and reduced risk of heart disease (so much so that the recent study's doctors mentioned that one has to weigh the benefits of reducing the breast cancer risk against the losses of reducing the heart disease risk).
In my opinion, what makes someone an alcoholic isn't the amount of alcohol they consume on a weekly or daily basis, but their reasons behind doing so and the affect is has on their ability to lead their normal lives and interact with others in a standard manner. If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming; if you're drinking it because you enjoy the taste, then you're no worse off than if you have a sweet tooth and enjoy dessert.

I actually have been around Europe where I know it's very common to have a glass of wine with dinner often. My point was that, if you want to argue that you need/deserve/have to have it every day, you have a problem. If you are dependent on it, that's alcoholism, even if that's also socially acceptable. If you can't stand to eat dinner without a glass of wine, wouldn't that mean that you are addicted? Like I said, I've been to France/Germany/etc and I know that wine/beer are popular, but also, because people are more open about it they actually don't drink it every day necessarily. And if they do (and can't go without it), I think that's a problem.

CDMay2006 · November 2011

I agree with this point:

KimberlyS530:
If you're drinking as an escape or coping mechanism, then you have a problem regardless of the amount you're consuming

, but there are other circumstances that would classify a person's drinking as problematic.

amandasw:
I actually have been around Europe where I know it's very common to have a glass of wine with dinner often. My point was that, if you want to argue that you need/deserve/have to have it every day, you have a problem. If you are dependent on it, that's alcoholism, even if that's also socially acceptable. If you can't stand to eat dinner without a glass of wine, wouldn't that mean that you are addicted? Like I said, I've been to France/Germany/etc and I know that wine/beer are popular, but also, because people are more open about it they actually don't drink it every day necessarily. And if they do (and can't go without it), I think that's a problem.

Right. Even if one isn't alcohol-dependent (alcoholic), consuming alcohol too greatly (in frequency/quantity/at the detriment of responsibility fulfillment and/or relationships) is alcohol abuse, regardless of dependency/addiction. In other words, i agree with Amanda that the above described patterns could be problem drinking (though aren't necessarily), even if it conforms to societal norms.

therickson · November 2011

I don't think frequency alone necessarily equals dependance, while to me amount and reason are definitely a factor. DH and I usually have a glass of wine with or after dinner and 98% of my family will either have a cocktail or a glass of wine after work. Is everyone in my family an alcoholic? No, and I know this because if we don't have a glass of wine we are all just as content.

I think drinking becomes problematic when it controls your life, your mind, affects your relationships, work as well as several other situations that I am not going to take the time to go into because it is late . I know recovering alcoholics and I know people who drink most nights and if they don't drink it is because they are hungover or they drink to get over a hangover. To me this is a problem - but a glass of wine or a beer because you enjoy the taste or it accents your food is not.

jennlin · November 2011

ditto amanda.

"wanting" it everyday, is pretty similar to "needing" it everyday.

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